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The end of Corpmate Awoxxing?

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#561 - 2014-10-31 16:56:33 UTC
Just to be clear, even if in addition to this minor Awox nerf CCP would somehow decide to get rid of all non-consensual combat in highsec, Eve STILL wouldn't be a PvE only game because low/null would have PvP, there would be consensual combat in highsec, and lots of non-combat mechanics are also PvP, mainly trading, etc....
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#562 - 2014-10-31 16:58:57 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:

So where do all the people whose main argument against this change find the ground to stand on . . . that by shifting a rule that made little sense (It is OK to go Postal if you are in a post office and work there) we are somehow moving away from what the game IS. It is like they are the apostles of a religion within the game but I cannot seem to find their holy book or church.


Remember you somehow can go postal on your fellow post man but only if they work for the same post office. The rest of the postman are still not legal target.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#563 - 2014-10-31 16:58:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mike Azariah wrote:
I checked The Games Website and, oddly, I do not see them saying that Eve is a Purely PvP game.

Now I will readily admit that it is a game with PvP in it if you will do the same in respect to PvE, because that is also part of the game. Missions, mining, exploration, are things you can do where you compete (maybe) but don't have to shoot some other player.

So where do all the people whose main argument against this change find the ground to stand on . . . that by shifting a rule that made little sense (It is OK to go Postal if you are in a post office and work there) we are somehow moving away from what the game IS. It is like they are the apostles of a religion within the game but I cannot seem to find their holy book or church.

So to some of the points
1) Yes, a well made and good practices corp could slow or catch most awoxers (though not all) and in that respect the game has been made (shudder) easier
b) Yes, free for alls will be harder to run since shooting each other will bring the wrath of concord down on you (pity there is no part of space where this is not true.
iii) I still haven't seen an argument that convinces me to go back to CCP and demand that they 'tear down this wall'
Five) but I do appreciate the level of discourse, here, over some of the other threads I monitor

m
Maybe you should try reading the New Citizens FAQ, where it says:

"This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core"

"Furthermore, as we mentioned previously, once you enter New Eden you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept"

"The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment."

"there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. The safest systems are the ‘rookie systems’ where new players start their journey in EVE."

PvP is not limited to shooting other people, it encompasses virtually every activity in the game.

IIRC CCP employees aren't allowed to participate in the darker facets of Eve, which IMHO leads to ignorance of those facets and policy decisions such as the topic under discussion.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#564 - 2014-10-31 17:01:12 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
I checked The Games Website and, oddly, I do not see them saying that Eve is a Purely PvP game.

Now I will readily admit that it is a game with PvP in it if you will do the same in respect to PvE, because that is also part of the game. Missions, mining, exploration, are things you can do where you compete (maybe) but don't have to shoot some other player.

So where do all the people whose main argument against this change find the ground to stand on . . . that by shifting a rule that made little sense (It is OK to go Postal if you are in a post office and work there) we are somehow moving away from what the game IS. It is like they are the apostles of a religion within the game but I cannot seem to find their holy book or church.

So to some of the points
1) Yes, a well made and good practices corp could slow or catch most awoxers (though not all) and in that respect the game has been made (shudder) easier
b) Yes, free for alls will be harder to run since shooting each other will bring the wrath of concord down on you (pity there is no part of space where this is not true.
iii) I still haven't seen an argument that convinces me to go back to CCP and demand that they 'tear down this wall'
Five) but I do appreciate the level of discourse, here, over some of the other threads I monitor

m


Now go tackle the topic of highsec reward being too high.


NPC tax @ 35% + no LP gain in any form + npc taxes applies to the market?
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#565 - 2014-10-31 17:07:58 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:


Tears... flowing the other way... how strange and beautiful mother nature can be.

Still don't like em tho... too salty.. not sweet at all.


Right.....

Tears.

How about coherent thoughts when you respond to me.

Fact remains, I have created more content then you will ever dream, child, with more positive outcomes, than bad.....using these mechanics.

What have you done?

And if I am crying so hard.....why am I still here?

I would assume "Stockholm Syndrome," right? Or "Sunken Cost Fallacy?" Those are the typical carebear responses.

Lmao, I am a tear harvester by nature.

And even if this does transpire, I know that I will still go out creating content, even if it leads to me being banned.

Because I actually believe in the so-called "core principles" of EVE, that the devs and community managers throw around carelessly.

And the reality is....

Even if I do leave EVE Online....

I get the last laugh.

Because I have literally played for years damn near exclusively out of the pockets of other players.

And played it in just about every way short of flying a super or running an alliance.

Lmfao.

vOv

It's pixels, dude.


Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#566 - 2014-10-31 17:08:41 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


NPC tax @ 35% + no LP gain in any form + npc taxes applies to the market?


Result - everyone operating in one man corps and even LESS social interaction. This is good for the game how exactly?
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#567 - 2014-10-31 17:09:53 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
I checked The Games Website and, oddly, I do not see them saying that Eve is a Purely PvP game.

Now I will readily admit that it is a game with PvP in it if you will do the same in respect to PvE, because that is also part of the game. Missions, mining, exploration, are things you can do where you compete (maybe) but don't have to shoot some other player.

So where do all the people whose main argument against this change find the ground to stand on . . . that by shifting a rule that made little sense (It is OK to go Postal if you are in a post office and work there) we are somehow moving away from what the game IS. It is like they are the apostles of a religion within the game but I cannot seem to find their holy book or church.

So to some of the points
1) Yes, a well made and good practices corp could slow or catch most awoxers (though not all) and in that respect the game has been made (shudder) easier
b) Yes, free for alls will be harder to run since shooting each other will bring the wrath of concord down on you (pity there is no part of space where this is not true.
iii) I still haven't seen an argument that convinces me to go back to CCP and demand that they 'tear down this wall'
Five) but I do appreciate the level of discourse, here, over some of the other threads I monitor

m
Maybe you should try reading the New Citizens FAQ, where it says:

"This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core"

"Furthermore, as we mentioned previously, once you enter New Eden you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept"

"The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment."

"there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. The safest systems are the ‘rookie systems’ where new players start their journey in EVE."

PvP is not limited to shooting other people, it encompasses virtually every activity in the game.


So? .... the FAQ is out of date... right?

P

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Darth Schweinebacke
Wings of Fury.
#568 - 2014-10-31 17:10:53 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


How the hell do we inform player in a clear way that the rules are not applicable when inside of the same corporation?



There is a quite easy way. If you recruit someone who is new to the game and does not have a clue about game mechanics you teach them about the possible consequences of joining a corp. Any good rookie friendly corp should take some time to teach them things anyway, but that would mean that you would actually have to be interested in teaching new players things about the game and do not want them just to increase the number of pilots in your corp or want to get their tax money.

A rookie friendly corp living up to it´s description of course is something one can not expect.

@Mike

Sure PvE is an element of the game and I will never claim that is not an important one either. But some people should learn to accept that in EvE there is no clear line drawn, between doing my PvE stuff and engaging in PvP. PvP can happen allways and anywhere in some form or another and people should either accept that or look for a game where they actually are safe from PvP and stop asking for more and more changes, which turns the game into a different game.

This one change does not change anything on a large scale. It is the general direction ccp has taken the game over the last years to appeal to a broader mass which worries people who play Eve and have been sticking for it for so many years.

If changes in the direction to make high sec a safer place would be the thing to do to get more subscribers the sub numbers over the past few years should have skyrocketed, but they did not.

I am totally not against new players and making live easier for them, but I would rather prefer better education for new players than nerfing mechanics.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#569 - 2014-10-31 17:11:01 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


NPC tax @ 35% + no LP gain in any form + npc taxes applies to the market?


Result - everyone operating in one man corps and even LESS social interaction. This is good for the game how exactly?

based on what veers, your word?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#570 - 2014-10-31 17:11:57 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Bob Bedala wrote:
CODE kill botfleets too.
Rarely if ever.

La Nariz wrote:
This is highsec pubbie levels of tinfoil man what the hell have you been smoking?
How so? Because I don't lap up CODE propaganda when they say "we're anti-botter, honest!". Their actions speak for themselves. They attack players who clearly aren't botting, soaking up the tears, while they ignore botters leaving them to chomp on through all of the rocks. If you take a step back and really look at it, you'll see that the effect they have is the exact opposite of their claimed objective. Whether or not that is by design or through enormous oversight is up to you to decide.

You accuse the one group of player with the mission to extinguish bots and bot like behaviour of botting? You must really run out of arguments if you even had some to begin with it seams.

Botting is against the EULA and will therefore be reported to CCP by us if we suspect the player to use a bot. If there is a way how I can harm the bot (ISK wise, ingame) without assembling a fleet of friends (that would just be silly as he will get banned anyway) I will go to great lengths to do so as I regard bots as one of the most game destroying entities around.

What are you doing against botting? Do you even care about this game?

Evil RatKid
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#571 - 2014-10-31 17:12:30 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:


So? .... the FAQ is out of date... right?

P


No, all it means is that because you are making money while doing PvE that it is also a form of PvP. So all the "carebears" you laugh at are actually PvP players.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#572 - 2014-10-31 17:13:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Brochan McLeod wrote:
So? .... the FAQ is out of date... right?

P
The FAQ which is stickied in the New Citizens Q&A forum and was published in January of this year is out of date?

Somebody should inform CCP of that and get them to remedy it Roll

Veers Belvar wrote:

No, all it means is that because you are making money while doing PvE that it is also a form of PvP. So all the "carebears" you laugh at are actually PvP players.
Carebear is an attitude, not a playstyle.

I do all of the things that carebears do, except whine on the forums about "how unfair" it is that others can interfere in my game play. Instead I take steps, ingame, to minimise the chances of others interfering in my game play.

TL;DR I take responsibility for my own safety in Eve, I don't expect or demand that CCP shoulder that responsibility for me.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#573 - 2014-10-31 17:14:11 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


NPC tax @ 35% + no LP gain in any form + npc taxes applies to the market?


Result - everyone operating in one man corps and even LESS social interaction. This is good for the game how exactly?

based on what veers, your word?


Based on the CSM minutes and on rational behavior. As CCP put it, the rational thing to do right now is to stay in NPC corps, and the players are doing it. Nerfing NPC corps would just exacerbate the already increasing movement to one man tax evasion corps. Again - there is no way to force people to willingly engage in combat if they don't want to. You need to offer carrots, not sticks.
Revis Owen
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#574 - 2014-10-31 17:16:15 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Maybe those who don't belong in EVE are those who whine about losing impunity...


An awoxer has impunity? The target corp can target and kill the awoxer just as freely. By what twisted logic do awoxers currently have "impunity"?

Any corp that can't defend itself against one pilot isn't a corp worth existing . . . in EvE. EvE should be harsh. Keep it that way.

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#575 - 2014-10-31 17:16:58 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


"This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core"

[quote] If the other pilot had no right
to attack you then CONCORD will track him down and punish him for his
crimes, so long as the attack took place in high security space.


from the line following

so we are both right, eh?

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#576 - 2014-10-31 17:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mike Azariah wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


"This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core"

[quote] If the other pilot had no right
to attack you then CONCORD will track him down and punish him for his
crimes, so long as the attack took place in high security space.


from the line following

so we are both right, eh?

m


No. guns don't magically stop working in high sec,

X Rebirth is a PVE game, EVE is a PVP (and not just the shooting kind, station traders pvp for example) game with supporting pve elements.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#577 - 2014-10-31 17:20:20 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


"This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core"

[quote] If the other pilot had no right
to attack you then CONCORD will track him down and punish him for his
crimes, so long as the attack took place in high security space.


from the line following

so we are both right, eh?

m
Name 3 things, that are not PvP in Eve.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#578 - 2014-10-31 17:21:54 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:


So? .... the FAQ is out of date... right?

P


No, all it means is that because you are making money while doing PvE that it is also a form of PvP.
So all the "carebears" you laugh at are actually PvP players.


Uh oh!.... Shocked so now they wanna kill me? They looked so.... peaceful... Bear

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:
So? .... the FAQ is out of date... right?

P
The FAQ which is stickied in the New Citizens Q&A forum and was published in January of this year is out of date?

Somebody should inform CCP of that and get them to remedy it Roll



I just called em... they will take care of it soon. P



Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#579 - 2014-10-31 17:22:43 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


NPC tax @ 35% + no LP gain in any form + npc taxes applies to the market?


Result - everyone operating in one man corps and even LESS social interaction. This is good for the game how exactly?


Of course that's the result and it's probably even worse than the actual system but I never said it was a good proposition either.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#580 - 2014-10-31 17:23:33 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


"This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core"

[quote] If the other pilot had no right
to attack you then CONCORD will track him down and punish him for his
crimes, so long as the attack took place in high security space.


from the line following

so we are both right, eh?

m
Name 3 things, that are not PvP in Eve.


Skill Training
PvE mission running if you dont spend the isk
Mining in a plentiful area if you just use the minerals to manufacture your own ships off the market.