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Dev blog: Invention updates in Phoebe

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Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#81 - 2014-10-30 19:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
hope you're being sarcastic steve.. seriously.. you are aware that folks do play the R & D agents missions.. grind up standings to use a better agent to spend their RP"s on datacores for specific sciences. right? right??


CCP has said many times since 2012 that they don't like the passive gameplay associated with Research Agent Datacore farming:

Quote:
A change mentioned during Fanfest concerns datacores and research agents in general. While we do acknowledge that initial the initial period to train up for high-level research agents take times, effort and money, we are not particularly fond of the passive datacore income in general.


Considering Datacores are obtained through Faction Warfare LP stores, and through Exploration, they have added enough active methods to obtain Datacores that maybe they should consider phasing out Research Agents, unless there is a compelling argument for keeping them.

Maybe the R&D Agent missions need another look at what we want to get out of them, as I see all of the missions (Security, Distribution, etc) being just different routes for getting standings, ISK, and LP.

Would it make more sense to instead just have Datacores available in the regular mission LP store at a reduced ratio compared to Faction Warfare?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#82 - 2014-10-30 19:38:42 UTC
DB wrote:
As part of our effort to remove needless complexity from EVE, racial decryptors are now going to be merged into one set of generic decryptors which affect all races in the same way. Decryptors will also now affect Ancient Relics.

So, for example, if you had an Occult Accelerant and Esoteric Accelerant Decryptor in your hangar, you will now receive 2x Accelerant Decryptors when Phoebe goes live.


How are these decryptors "needless complexity"? They are flavor and spices added to the game!

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#83 - 2014-10-30 19:42:24 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Now this my come as a shock but did you consider them datacores at all?

You those thingies that look like a bottle of some sort that agents give you one per day.

By all means carry on and when datacores become a problem, don't come back to me so I can rub that into your nose and I say I told you so (again).



You mean the things which mostly come from faction warfare, in return for LP?


hope you're being sarcastic steve.. seriously.. you are aware that folks do play the R & D agents missions.. grind up standings to use a better agent to spend their RP"s on datacores for specific sciences. right? right??

a very slow passive grind 100 RP - 1 datacore varying in science skill. more skill level you have.. the more RP's the agents provide you day to day.. there was not even a slight mention of it.. they once thought about removing it.. now I don't know what they'll do..guess it fits in the "we'll come back to it in the future" statement they love to use like nanite paste!!!!!

I think the dev completely over looked that.. I think he forgot all about it.. seems ccp spreads their limited resources around so much that things get overlooked.. and decides to just steamroll on in.

He's saying that the bare trickle of datacores coming out of R&D agents these days pales in comparison to the volume gushing forth from Faction Warfare LP stores.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2014-10-30 19:52:54 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
DB wrote:
As part of our effort to remove needless complexity from EVE, racial decryptors are now going to be merged into one set of generic decryptors which affect all races in the same way. Decryptors will also now affect Ancient Relics.

So, for example, if you had an Occult Accelerant and Esoteric Accelerant Decryptor in your hangar, you will now receive 2x Accelerant Decryptors when Phoebe goes live.


How are these decryptors "needless complexity"? They are flavor and spices added to the game!

Not to mention the average value of data sites will plummet, decrypters were where the biggest value for data sites came from and now there is effectively 3x more of them on the market.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#85 - 2014-10-30 19:54:25 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
DB wrote:
As part of our effort to remove needless complexity from EVE, racial decryptors are now going to be merged into one set of generic decryptors which affect all races in the same way. Decryptors will also now affect Ancient Relics.

So, for example, if you had an Occult Accelerant and Esoteric Accelerant Decryptor in your hangar, you will now receive 2x Accelerant Decryptors when Phoebe goes live.


How are these decryptors "needless complexity"? They are flavor and spices added to the game!

Not to mention the average value of data sites will plummet, decrypters were where the biggest value for data sites came from and now there is effectively 3x more of them on the market.

Sure, but there is a commensurate increase in usage for that decryptor.

Hell, there will probably be even MORE usage for decryptors now that you can batch invention jobs. Invention in TYOOL 2014 is heavily effort based, as the jobs are very short. Batching leads to a vast increase in the number of jobs you can grunt out in a given period of wakefulness.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#86 - 2014-10-30 20:03:19 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
hope you're being sarcastic steve.. seriously.. you are aware that folks do play the R & D agents missions.. grind up standings to use a better agent to spend their RP"s on datacores for specific sciences. right? right??


CCP has said many times since 2012 that they don't like the passive gameplay associated with Research Agent Datacore farming:


And FW farming is not passive gameplay?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2014-10-30 20:03:46 UTC
Quote:
Removed data interfaces from Invention
Removed and reimbursed all R.Db.-Hybrid Technology, data interfaces, subsystem interfaces, and their respective blueprints at average market price


How exactly do you refund blueprints at average market price, when there isn't a market for them? Contracts? Hoping the average goes back pre-Odyssey to give some of the long term Interface manufactures a bit of a break.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#88 - 2014-10-30 20:04:14 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
hope you're being sarcastic steve.. seriously.. you are aware that folks do play the R & D agents missions.. grind up standings to use a better agent to spend their RP"s on datacores for specific sciences. right? right??


CCP has said many times since 2012 that they don't like the passive gameplay associated with Research Agent Datacore farming:


And FW farming is not passive gameplay?

You at least have to undock. R&D is "grind once, cash out as infrequently as you like. Years can elapse." It was stomped into the ground, and nothing of value was lost.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-10-30 20:07:21 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And FW farming is not passive gameplay?


I know there have been a lot of changes to reduce afk plexing - from increasing the npc damage amounts, and removing cloaking withing beacon range. And doesn't a lot of the LP come from missions, rather than the plexes themselves? And you get more LP if you offensively plex vs defensive?

I might be wrong on all that - I don't do FW, I just like to shoot at them :)
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#90 - 2014-10-30 20:17:54 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

hope you're being sarcastic steve.. seriously.. you are aware that folks do play the R & D agents missions.. grind up standings to use a better agent to spend their RP"s on datacores for specific sciences. right? right??

a very slow passive grind 100 RP - 1 datacore varying in science skill. more skill level you have.. the more RP's the agents provide you day to day.. there was not even a slight mention of it.. they once thought about removing it.. now I don't know what they'll do..guess it fits in the "we'll come back to it in the future" statement they love to use like nanite paste!!!!!

I think the dev completely over looked that.. I think he forgot all about it.. seems ccp spreads their limited resources around so much that things get overlooked.. and decides to just steamroll on in.

you mean the passive free income that was deliberately nerfed by shifting the primary source of datacores to fw with the explicit goal of nerfing the passive income from completing the R&D grind once?



lol yeah that one
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2014-10-30 20:19:05 UTC
Not like it's hard to get the standing required to get to an L4 agent and train one or two science skills to IV. Doesn't pay out quite as much as V but takes no time at all.


Random question (might've been posted allready but I haven't seen it). "Sleeper Encryption Methods" sounds a lot like "Amarr Encryption Methods" but it's confusingly similar in name to "Sleeper Technology". In fact I'm completely confused as to what all those indy skills I trained because I could afford the skillbooks even do. Like ... Amarr Encryption Methods, Sleeper Encrytion Methods, Amarrian Spaceship Engineering and Sleeper Technology ... what? You sure this is gonna be less confusing after than it was before?
I'm not convinced yet.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#92 - 2014-10-30 20:25:29 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And FW farming is not passive gameplay?


I know there have been a lot of changes to reduce afk plexing - from increasing the npc damage amounts, and removing cloaking withing beacon range. And doesn't a lot of the LP come from missions, rather than the plexes themselves? And you get more LP if you offensively plex vs defensive?

I might be wrong on all that - I don't do FW, I just like to shoot at them :)



it takes one run of missions to get 1 mil lp when the faction is at a high lv. it is done in an almost untouchable bomber with only t2 fittings it only takes 3-4 hours. run with multiple accounts for more success. it might as well be afk as most of the time is just travel time with 3-5 mins in a mission where you kill one then then warp off. also less grind to get lv4 FW mission access then R&D missions lv4 access. so its about a wash
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#93 - 2014-10-30 21:05:57 UTC
Quote:
Not to mention the average value of data sites will plummet, decrypters were where the biggest value for data sites came from and now there is effectively 3x more of them on the market.

Are you serious? Yes, there will be "3x more of them on the market", but you do realise, that there also will be 3x more the demand for them?

Of course the prices of the expensive/cheap decryptors will compensate and settle somewhere in the middle.
If just someone had bought a lot of cheap decryptors, in hope that the expensive counterparts will drive the pirce up after they are getting merged when phoebe hits.... (*looks at his decryptor stack Twisted)

Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#94 - 2014-10-30 21:42:53 UTC
I wasn't aware of there being any bonus to mfg for having high T2 construction skills. So not sure why people are upset over CCP adding a time bonus to skills that previously didn't have them. My alt will be happy to get those T2 rigs done faster, even if she doesn't have those skills to 5.

As for their effect on invention success, they still count for less than 1% per level. So I still won't be training them up to 5. Just not worth the training time.

Merging of Invention and RE, ok. Cool.

Renaming of skills: Excellent.

The reduction of skill requirements for advanced ship production: how long to make a minimum skill alt now? 3 hours for T1 frigates? Same for T3s isn't it? Well, more fodder for the markets, heh heh.

Removal of interfaces... le sigh. Just pick what you want to make now. "Well, I think I'll make 100 Accelerated Ejection Bays and crash the market today. Tomorrow, Rifled Launchers! Mwa-ha-ha!"

Honestly, there was a lot of potential in those items. If they were consumable they would be of value. Sad to see them go away and never come back. And once they are gone, you will never be able to bring them back without a lot of people getting really angry. So you better make sure.

Merging the decryptors seems... well... ok. I guess that means I can go exploring and always have what I want, rather than having to go to market and trade for them. Wondering if this change is geared more towards removing some of the regionalization of items.

Actually I wonder if all the consolidation and removal of items is geared towards removing a lot of stuff from the database... Hamsters getting a little too fat to spin the wheels?

Saved the best for last: Batch jobs. http://tshirtvila.com/products/square/12455.png

Overall I approve of this set of changes. I don't agree with everything. And I think a lot of potential is being left on the cutting room floor. But this will simplify invention and RE, as well as lowering the barrier of entry.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#95 - 2014-10-30 22:40:21 UTC
Soldarius wrote:

Removal of interfaces... le sigh. Just pick what you want to make now. "Well, I think I'll make 100 Accelerated Ejection Bays and crash the market today. Tomorrow, Rifled Launchers! Mwa-ha-ha!"

Um, in case you forgot, interfaces were buy-once, use-always. Anyone who was inventing just has one of each type. They don't cost that much.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
JamesT KirkJr
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#96 - 2014-10-30 22:40:53 UTC
I have issue with your plans for the following two changes:

Quote:
In addition, we are going to decrease level requirements to 1 for Tech II item manufacturing on the following skills:

(snip)

To compensate for this change, all those skills will now give a 1% Time Efficiency bonus for the Tech II manufacturing job they are required for, which is still going to give an incentive for players to train those up, or give an edge for players that already trained them.


I want the skill points for training those skills over L1 back please. I paid you for the time to train the higher levels because you required them to manufacture higher level items. Since we all will be able to manufacture those items without that training, I want the choice on what the subscription time I expended accomplishes for my character.

Quote:
Decryptor merging:
As part of our effort to remove needless complexity from EVE, racial decryptors are now going to be merged into one set of generic decryptors which affect all races in the same way. Decryptors will also now affect Ancient Relics.

So, for example, if you had an Occult Accelerant and Esoteric Accelerant Decryptor in your hangar, you will now receive 2x Accelerant Decryptors when Phoebe goes live.


I'd rather be recompensed for the ones I own in ISK please, at their original purchase price, so that I'm not forced to take a loss on their value because of this change. Post-Phoebe I will purchase as many generic ones as I need at market prices.


Thank you for taking these small measures to prevent the changes from unfairly impacting players who have committed subscription time and in-game resources into T2 invention and production.
Quadima
HyperDreams Studios
#97 - 2014-10-30 23:05:52 UTC
Totally agree with what most people here said:

1% TE for a 5x skill ?
It's not a joke, it's a total insult to manufacturers!

1% ME - MAYBE, it would mean the people who invested a lot of points in training would actually have a MARGIN versus people who are just "Trying something" with those skills at I or II

Even slooowly training them at 5 would mean something, as you would have 12% theoretical profit above someone who didn't train them at all (just lvl 1)

---
p.s. "1%" is an insult when applied to ANY skill, not just industry.

"Hey, train this awesome 50-day skill for 1% more damage ! You'll feel so pro after it ..."
Auric Megastryke
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-10-30 23:20:41 UTC
OK - so you are making invention so easy a monkey can do it, and if you have dedicated an alt and a lot of training towards being able to invent at a decent percentage chance and produce at a decent profit you are just S.O.L on all that training. Here's a "1% time bonus" - you might as well say "here's a cookie kid, now go away and shut up".
Aluka 7th
#99 - 2014-10-30 23:41:11 UTC
Was wondering regarding batch job.
If i do 5 run batch job, will all 5 ether fail or all 5 succeed; Or is it possible to get some of them succeed and some of them fail?
PerrinBash
Living the Dream
#100 - 2014-10-31 00:20:26 UTC
Right, so with dumbing down of eve your now allowing any active account to unlimited (basically) training, changed all the reprocessing, allow all of hi sec harassment and bumping as fair play, revamp of all manufacturing and research, making most skills to level 5 a thing of past, and don't allow freighters mid slots or rigs, or any capacity to defend themselves.
Your moving toward the end game, lets just make it happen. Select the top 15% of SP players to get jovian technology and let us wreck eve, or....just keep chipping away at it bit by bit.