EVE General Discussion

Or they can just duel. Or they can set up a separate corp and war dec each other.

Shooting corpmates is 99.9% done by AWOXERs who are totally unrealistic. It's nothing but an exploit. They call Titan bumping an exploit but not AWOXING? Please. If you're in a high security area and you do not have a legal war going or are not in a voluntary duel and you kill someone, the cops should take you away, whether that someone is in your corp or not.

Carte blanche killing corp mates is just contrary to reason. It's also bad for PR and discourages new players. There's no talent involved. There's no skill involved. There are secondary exploits involved such as using out of corp logi, another thing that doesn't make sense. If I am in a high security area and someone tries to kill me, the cops will come unless the killer is my friend, yet the cops WILL come to kill me for shooting his accomplice because his accomplice is NOT my friend.

AWOXING is not only bad for the game but just utterly absurd.

It involved the infiltration of corps with the goal of making ships explode, not necessarily via the direct application of the AWOXer's guns. The main way certainly used to be via the AWOXer providing a warpin to a fleet hostile to the AWOXee. Ship-exploding AWOXing currently has two forms:

A) Warping in a hostile fleet
B) Shooting someone without Concord intervention

Post change it has two forms:

A) Warping in a hostile fleet
B) Shooting someone with Concord intervention





This is exactly why I think it should come in with the Concordokken fix. If the two things are parceled as one update there will but much less kickback. The Concordokken delay is just a "part of the package" as opposed to a standalone nerf to suvivability, in terms of perception.

Yeah, the Guiding Hand Social Club totally wasn't one of the single largest generators of long term subs in the history of the game.

It's just "griefing" that stops CCP from attracting the kind of people who just want to watch Family Guy with one hand down their pants while they mine endlessly in highsec. Oh, if only we could have less of the former and more of the latter!

I will take your words for it as soon as you provide a proof of it. You seem to have access to CCP's account history data so it should not be hard for you to provide fact about how it does not cost subs.

Thanks for the toothsome reply.



Quick question: how do you know what an API is, and how do you provide a full one? Where did you learn that? Not anywhere in game! How do you balance that with the opposite concern, that the joining player doesn't entirely trust the corp he's joining and, for whatever reason, wants to maintain a certain degree of privacy at least initially?

I mean, if you reduce corporate recruiting to a choice between making every potential recruit strip for a full colonoscopy and losing everything to some alt with a glint in his eye, isn't that a little broken by itself?

Is it any wonder that most of the people who stay in this game are people more like me, who knew exactly which people from which out-of-game community they were going to play with when they came in?

If you're someone like me who prefers to learn by doing (it's the only way to make most of the family recipes, for one thing, because LOL measurements) how and where do you learn to run a corp? How tolerant should the game be of mistakes, given that most players learn from mistakes?

I'm asking questions because I'm not going to pretend that they all have clear-cut answers, or certainly that I know the answers there are. But they're real questions that CCP has to find answers to.

If it's any consolation, CCP just nerfed my previous corp's playstyle beyond the point where we felt it was worth putting up with the hassle, so I have a first-hand understanding of how it feels to have your little part of the game disappear one day. The difference is that once we all recover from burnout we'll probably just find a different little part of the game.



I'll just say that I have great confidence in the ability of EVE players--certainly including new players!--to be diabolical little bastards, and I mean that in the best way possible.

For me, this change is similar to Sugar Kyle's suggestion in the CSM minutes to get rid of sec status loss in low sec if you shoot first. That's another weird little corner of the rules that just doesn't make a lot of sense. If you're in a low security space, in a ship with medium- to long-range weapons, and a brawler lands on grid with you, why should you be penalized for firing before he gets under your guns, which is the tactically sensible thing to do? if no law enforcement is on grid, why should they even notice?

Also, if you eliminate that quirk, you eliminate a lot of the peripheral issues that dedicated low sec players have getting into high sec because of greatly reduced sec status, and you obviate the need for workarounds like tags4sec that just make security status even more pointless and arbitrary. I know I'm veering a bit off topic, but it's only to establish that the goal here, to me, is that things should be streamlined and consistent, and whether that process makes one little bit of the game more or less safe, it's a change for the better on balance, especially as far as new players are concerned. Other players provide arbitrarily high levels of complexity already, without some computer's attempts to add more, and we want players interacting with other players.



OK, you're a total newbie. You just joined cold because you liked the tagline in the EVE web ad. You don't know anyone. What do you do?



The part I've highlighted is a very serious issue with the NPE. But here's the rub: you learn what EVE is from other players. So the sooner you put new players in touch with existing players, the sooner they learn what EVE is, one way or another. The current mechanics place obstacles between new players and existing players.



Yes, and for good reason. I mean, I could also say that CCP was on a slippery slope to chase PVP corps out of wormholes, because I was in a PVP corp in a wormhole and now I'm not, but I would be full of it. I've picked up Star Trek Online. That's a theme park, and perfectly enjoyable as the set of interactive Star Trek episodes that it is. Looking from that to the stated direction for EVE, which CCP is quite open about... yeah. I just can't see any similarity beyond there being spaceships which are online.

Yes, but what if they didn't?

Retaining even a small portion of the "upgrade your raven types" (~40% of new players as per CCP Rise at FF) could, over a modest time frame,significantly increase the quantity of targets in our sand box.

Providing for these worthless souls, whether it be in the form of dojos/arenas, improved missions, reducing awoxing, etc. has the opportunity to vastly enrich the sandbox and is therefore a worthwhile pursuit.

If you do not believe my words, I will carefully take your hand, will try not to break it, and show you actual reality. You can ask awoxxers themselves about the huge amount of corps who gather new players and do not care for them or teach them anything of actual value.

You can also by yourself spend lots of time in ALL the rookiecorps to find out that there are assholes who do exactly what I am telling you. Tippia can also confirm this to be true and points it out often enough.

I take my information simply by playing and talking in the relevant areas, with the people it's about. Something CCP does not seem to do and I doubt you do it either. You people look at "data", thinking it mirrors reality. The more you look at data, the less connected with actual reality you will be.

If you think you know better, then please show us relevant data that proves that the issue that absolutely exists is not actually there. I bet that your data does not consider social interactions and the influence of the few on the many.

You are welcome to tell me otherwise and show me something that proves that you or CCP actually know why people are leaving this game. So far, it seems that you all suffer from a big questionmark.

Do you have any ideas why people do not stay for longer or do you just have data?

It's an exploit. It's bad for the game. It's absolutely absurd.

Prove that it does.

He can't prove his point without access to ccp's data anymore than you can prove yours. All we know is that ccp has the data, and they're the ones choosing to make these changes.