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Intergalactic Summit

 
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First Arek'Jaalan Symposium : Restructuring & Leadership - YC116-YC117

Author
Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
#101 - 2014-10-25 17:25:08 UTC
(( OOC update about Arek'Jalaan Mission Statement. While searching for Jovian bits in my old storage boxes, I've found that the Mission Statement is also an ingame item. ("Arek'Jaalan: Mission Statement" is the complete name.) Since the chances of seeing that item description updated are slim, I suggest we keep it as-is.))
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#102 - 2014-10-26 12:00:05 UTC
I have been working on ideas for organisation, and have come up with this:

http://i.imgur.com/Hyc6jeo.png

As you can see, there's not really any division boundaries. At this stage in time, I believe that there isn't so much of a need for formal divisions, at least until things pick up pace. If they pick up.

Previously, things were arranged in a sort of spiderweb fashion, with Tukoss at the centre, and everything having to go to/from him, there wasn't really much talk between people. I feel this may have been detrimental.

So, at the outside, are all the project members, new and old, who are active in field work, researching topics of interest.

They have their project heads new and old, who would be in charge of managing resources, and providing reports and other documentation.

Any smaller issues that project members have, could probably be discussed and solved by their project head.

Above the project heads, are what I called the "science council", consisting of former A'J division heads and senior researchers, such as myself, Morwen Lagann, Professor Sealbreaker, and others. The role of the science council would be to organise and support project heads, according to expertise, and to advise project heads on scientific matters. The council wouldn't have much power, it should only be a means whereby project heads could seek advice, and receive assistance on producing scientific publications worthy of the A'J name.

The intention is so that Hilen Tukoss isn't burdened with so much, that he is unable to do whatever it is he needs to do with these things he's asked for.

So, I present that as an alternative, in the interests of discussion.

I have a few ideas for things as well, projects that people can start working on.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#103 - 2014-10-27 15:26:14 UTC
It is truly a pleasure seeing sea of familiar faces and new participants.

I apologize for my delayed response. The planetary matters regarding M&A have kept me fully occupied till now.

Working for Arek'Jaalan years back has been a blessing. I would like to resume my position as the Lead for the Arek'Jaalan Acquisition if the greater community here gives me the blessing.
Leveaux
Celestial Precision
#104 - 2014-10-27 16:55:04 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
I have been working on ideas for organisation, and have come up with this:

http://i.imgur.com/Hyc6jeo.png

As you can see, there's not really any division boundaries. At this stage in time, I believe that there isn't so much of a need for formal divisions, at least until things pick up pace. If they pick up.

Previously, things were arranged in a sort of spiderweb fashion, with Tukoss at the centre, and everything having to go to/from him, there wasn't really much talk between people. I feel this may have been detrimental.

So, at the outside, are all the project members, new and old, who are active in field work, researching topics of interest.

They have their project heads new and old, who would be in charge of managing resources, and providing reports and other documentation.

Any smaller issues that project members have, could probably be discussed and solved by their project head.

Above the project heads, are what I called the "science council", consisting of former A'J division heads and senior researchers, such as myself, Morwen Lagann, Professor Sealbreaker, and others. The role of the science council would be to organise and support project heads, according to expertise, and to advise project heads on scientific matters. The council wouldn't have much power, it should only be a means whereby project heads could seek advice, and receive assistance on producing scientific publications worthy of the A'J name.

The intention is so that Hilen Tukoss isn't burdened with so much, that he is unable to do whatever it is he needs to do with these things he's asked for.

So, I present that as an alternative, in the interests of discussion.

I have a few ideas for things as well, projects that people can start working on.



I think a combination of both Gehen Sealbreaker’s suggestion and Valerie Valate’s suggestion would be a good structure to build upon. Instead of Project Heads, as stated in Valerie’s diagram, replace them with Division Leaders and have that “ring” organized as shown in Gehen’s diagram. Combining the two I believe would prove to be an effective start to the revitalizing Arek’Jaalan.
Des Jardin
Aperture Harmonics
#105 - 2014-10-27 17:38:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Des Jardin
Leadership does not interest me. I am however motivated by curiosity and wanderlust.

Should any of the Arek'Jaalan divisions require information available only to those capsuleers who call the deepest regions of w-space home, let me know. I am sure we can come to an accommodation.

Des Jardin

"Good against remotes is one thing.  Good against the living ... that's something else."

Anslo
Scope Works
#106 - 2014-10-27 17:42:55 UTC
Also it's been two weeks...have any decisions really been made?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#107 - 2014-10-27 17:58:58 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Also it's been two weeks...have any decisions really been made?


The unexpected return of Mr Tèukoss did cause a shake-up and a caused a delay in the decision making, for good reasons. It shouldn't stop us from proposing ideas & such however. The extended time can also be used to get things more streamlined & get a better idea of expectations & abilities.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Joe Themachine
Sleeper Tech. Research Foundation
#108 - 2014-10-27 18:21:33 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Also it's been two weeks...have any decisions really been made?



Hi Anslo,

In roughly 1 week, we will be voting on the proposals in this symposium, and that will be when the decisions are made. Very soon! We're almost there.
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#109 - 2014-10-28 00:17:50 UTC
With regard to these organizational proposals, my suggestions are those of simplicity and transparency.

The public, to whom we purport to hold ourselves beholden in the name of science and progress, will care not one whit what we say if they perceive Arek'Jaalan to be just another elitist Ivory Tower. We already have a tarnished reputation as capsuleers to deal with. No need to add to the difficulties.

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!

Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
#110 - 2014-10-28 09:35:25 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
I have been working on ideas for organisation, and have come up with this:

http://i.imgur.com/Hyc6jeo.png

As you can see, there's not really any division boundaries. At this stage in time, I believe that there isn't so much of a need for formal divisions, at least until things pick up pace. If they pick up.

Previously, things were arranged in a sort of spiderweb fashion, with Tukoss at the centre, and everything having to go to/from him, there wasn't really much talk between people. I feel this may have been detrimental.

So, at the outside, are all the project members, new and old, who are active in field work, researching topics of interest.

They have their project heads new and old, who would be in charge of managing resources, and providing reports and other documentation.

Any smaller issues that project members have, could probably be discussed and solved by their project head.

Above the project heads, are what I called the "science council", consisting of former A'J division heads and senior researchers, such as myself, Morwen Lagann, Professor Sealbreaker, and others. The role of the science council would be to organise and support project heads, according to expertise, and to advise project heads on scientific matters. The council wouldn't have much power, it should only be a means whereby project heads could seek advice, and receive assistance on producing scientific publications worthy of the A'J name.

The intention is so that Hilen Tukoss isn't burdened with so much, that he is unable to do whatever it is he needs to do with these things he's asked for.


This is a very interesting proposal, Dr. Valate. It has similarities and compatibilities with mine, as Mr. Leveaux pointed out, but is maybe a more transparent, more fluid approach.

Your proposal have merits to my eyes, although I would not put the name of Dr. Tukoss is the middle of the chart right now, due to the current controversy.

However, I have a question. While your proposal tackles the subject of scientific research very well (and it's the main objective we pursue), you did not say much about the support divisions. We have seen that they require a lot of attention, with multiple examples recently:

- Acquisition was always critical, and the simple return of the Antiquarian transformed a daunting collection task into a mere formality.
- Security, although not always critical, seems to leverage passions about who is going to lead it. (This statement is not an invitation to devolve this symposium again, please.)
- (I do not forget about all the other support divisions, but they were not put into such an extreme spotlight recently - which is a good thing, A'J:SEC provides enough drama.)

So, Dr. Valate, how would these divisions fit into your proposal? Should their past top contributors be members of the Science Council as well? How do you propose we organize elections or nominations in case of a disputed position?
Jason Irmitrij
Azure Stars Order
#111 - 2014-10-29 00:42:47 UTC
Friendly greetings.

You may not know me, as I have not been much talkative beforehand, and neither participated actively in AJ project.

But I am avid scientist (and explorer), running many science projects myself - some of which at least partially overlap with AJ's projects.
My speciality is space / time research, engineering and anomalies analysis, with artifacts research, and also biotech.

So, if you are interested in my help, feel free to contact me, and we could arange something...

Cheers.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#112 - 2014-10-29 20:19:54 UTC
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:

However, I have a question. While your proposal tackles the subject of scientific research very well (and it's the main objective we pursue), you did not say much about the support divisions. We have seen that they require a lot of attention, with multiple examples recently:

- Acquisition was always critical, and the simple return of the Antiquarian transformed a daunting collection task into a mere formality.
- Security, although not always critical, seems to leverage passions about who is going to lead it. (This statement is not an invitation to devolve this symposium again, please.)
- (I do not forget about all the other support divisions, but they were not put into such an extreme spotlight recently - which is a good thing, A'J:SEC provides enough drama.)

So, Dr. Valate, how would these divisions fit into your proposal? Should their past top contributors be members of the Science Council as well? How do you propose we organize elections or nominations in case of a disputed position?


I have made some alterations, perhaps this would be more suitable: http://i.imgur.com/vPnWqXL.png

Science division, encompasses all research.
Security division, manages all security teams.
Materials division, handles all the materials collected, and requested.
Publishing division, handles archives of discussions, helps people with their publications.

As I had suggested, the "council", would be largely an advisory body, to help project leaders find the resources they need.

I did think all past top contributors should be members of the Council, that might not have been clear.

I'd say that, for elections, members of the Council would have just one major power: that of veto, but this must come at the cost of their own position.

E.g. I, as a past Division Head, would be on the Council. Someone wants to be head of the entire Science Division, and I have strong objections. I could veto that person being the head of the Science Division, but would have to resign from the Council as a result. This is to ensure that that power would not be used lightly.

We'll have to work on the rest of the election structure.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Ollie Rundle
#113 - 2014-10-30 11:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ollie Rundle
Valerie Valate wrote:
I have made some alterations, perhaps this would be more suitable: http://i.imgur.com/vPnWqXL.png

Science division, encompasses all research.
Security division, manages all security teams.
Materials division, handles all the materials collected, and requested.
Publishing division, handles archives of discussions, helps people with their publications.

As I had suggested, the "council", would be largely an advisory body, to help project leaders find the resources they need.

I did think all past top contributors should be members of the Council, that might not have been clear.

I'd say that, for elections, members of the Council would have just one major power: that of veto, but this must come at the cost of their own position.

E.g. I, as a past Division Head, would be on the Council. Someone wants to be head of the entire Science Division, and I have strong objections. I could veto that person being the head of the Science Division, but would have to resign from the Council as a result. This is to ensure that that power would not be used lightly.

We'll have to work on the rest of the election structure.

The Council tier seems somewhat irrelevant to me. If it's a form of meritocracy we're basing the structure around, then division heads and project leads should be capable of communicating their ideas, needs and findings with those they have to in order to achieve their desired outcomes without requiring an additional bureaucratic layer to help them out or do it for them.

The rest of your proposed structure seems sound and the simplification of the divisions is to be commended.
Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
#114 - 2014-10-30 12:20:31 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
(proposal)


The rest of your proposed structure seems sound and the simplification of the divisions is to be commended.


Is it?
I stand by my own proposal, but I can see the merits of Dr. Valate's one.

Dr. Valate's proposal (with merged divisions) have no division head to veto projects, which is sound: there would be no way that a single person would oversee all the research taking place in A'J. But is this merger a good idea in the first place? I like the idea that smaller divisions (at least in the science field) will be able to have a Division Head, and therefore, someone to greenlight projects.

(( As much as meritocracy is a suitable form for Arek'Jalaan, this has to be kept organized and moderated, if only because we too may fail, not just our characters: overeager participants may push forward unrealistic projects, or pretend breakthroughs that are blatant godmoding. Division Heads are, in my opinion, necessary, for they would be not only recognized scientific figures, but also, played by experienced roleplayers, familiar both with roleplaying in general, and EVE PF in particular. Hence my preference for multiple smaller scientific divisions. (Although less than today, see my first post in this thread for details on my proposal.) ))
Ollie Rundle
#115 - 2014-10-30 12:53:08 UTC
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
(proposal)


The rest of your proposed structure seems sound and the simplification of the divisions is to be commended.


Is it?
I stand by my own proposal, but I can see the merits of Dr. Valate's one.

Dr. Valate's proposal (with merged divisions) have no division head to veto projects, which is sound: there would be no way that a single person would oversee all the research taking place in A'J. But is this merger a good idea in the first place? I like the idea that smaller divisions (at least in the science field) will be able to have a Division Head, and therefore, someone to greenlight projects.


To clarify:

I am commenting on Valerie's revised structure linked to in the post I quoted - not the initial one in which divisions were merged.

I am commending the simplification of multiple A'J divisions (and subdivisions thereof) into four basic divisions that address the key function of research supported by resource acquisition, security and administration/public relations.

Beyond that I believe I am suggesting precisely what you are, Gehen.

Do away with the need for a 'Council' tier and leave the management of the 'Divisions' tier and projects within it to either Division leads, project leads or some fluid mixture of both. A meritocratic foundation allows for this as those who can do will and in the process will both gather others to help support their efforts and provide leadership and mentoring to their colleagues as a byproduct of their own expertise and experience.

There's no need under such a structure for the extraneous level of bureaucracy that the Council tier creates, in my opinion.

My apologies if any of this was less than clear and precise from the outset.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#116 - 2014-10-30 18:24:59 UTC
The "Council", was necessary, in my opinion for three things:

To try and ensure that new projects live up to the name of Arek'Jaalan.

To try and ensure that the A'J name is not misappropriated.

To try and ensure the whole project is not unduly relying on Dr. Tukoss.

If you have other ideas to try and achieve this, then please, share them.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Ollie Rundle
#117 - 2014-10-30 23:36:33 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
The "Council", was necessary, in my opinion for three things:

To try and ensure that new projects live up to the name of Arek'Jaalan.

To try and ensure that the A'J name is not misappropriated.

To try and ensure the whole project is not unduly relying on Dr. Tukoss.

If you have other ideas to try and achieve this, then please, share them.

With due respect, Valerie, I believe I have shared my alternative idea.

Put simply once more: we should give serious consideration to discarding the 'Council' tier altogether. It was not necessary to ensure any of the three goals you outlined in the first iteration of Arek'Jaalan and it remains just as unnecessary to the current effort.

As before, peer review and constructive criticism/feedback will serve to address two of the three potential issues you have identified and the leadership qualities of those deciding to oversee different divisions or projects will be sufficient to provide adequate buffering for Hilen Tukoss once it is determined what - if any - role he is suitable to take in Arek'Jaalan's future.
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2014-10-31 13:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: The Antiquarian
It is truly a pleasure seeing new faces joining the ranks of Arek'Jaalan. With the return of Dr. Tukoss and the infusion of new members amidst the old, Arek'Jaalan stands to leave a greater mark in the history of New Eden.

I applaud those who had the tenacity to keep the spirit of the Project going. Years of Dr. Tukoss' absence has left the Project in an indefinite hiatus, but thanks to several individuals here, I envision that the newly invigorated Arek'Jaalan will shine brighter than its predecessor.

Recently, there has been a talk of organizational restructuring. Although a change is in order, I believe that too drastic of a change would be detrimental to the stability of the organization itself. On the other hand, I wholeheartedly agree with simplifying the organization to meet the current needs. I have reviewed dozens of ideas specified on this Symposium and I believe that Mr. Sealbreaker's proposal is most sound. It comprehensively covers all the necessities of the Project and I value the proposal for its ability to be implemented right away.

As a simple clerk overseeing couple trinkets, I am not in the position to dictate any terms, but from my experiences in New Eden, any abrupt and invalidated-drastic changes without a proper due diligence has left many organizations and corps limping. I urge others to examine Mr. Sealbreaker's proposal before casting your votes.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#119 - 2014-10-31 15:30:53 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
The "Council", was necessary, in my opinion for three things:

To try and ensure that new projects live up to the name of Arek'Jaalan.

To try and ensure that the A'J name is not misappropriated.

To try and ensure the whole project is not unduly relying on Dr. Tukoss.

If you have other ideas to try and achieve this, then please, share them.

With due respect, Valerie, I believe I have shared my alternative idea.

Put simply once more: we should give serious consideration to discarding the 'Council' tier altogether. It was not necessary to ensure any of the three goals you outlined in the first iteration of Arek'Jaalan and it remains just as unnecessary to the current effort.

As before, peer review and constructive criticism/feedback will serve to address two of the three potential issues you have identified and the leadership qualities of those deciding to oversee different divisions or projects will be sufficient to provide adequate buffering for Hilen Tukoss once it is determined what - if any - role he is suitable to take in Arek'Jaalan's future.


Yes, well, apparently, "It has been decided", that nobody in A'J should give Dr. Tukoss the objects he requested, until "things are proven".

Who decided this, and what proof is required, I don't know, because this didn't seem to be mentioned on the IGS, or on the mailing list, so, it is a mystery to me as to who decided what, on what basis, and on whose authority.

I would think some kind of council to discuss those kind of important discussions, or at the very least, inform others of the reasons why someone is taking action unilaterally, would be helpful.

Obviously, it seems you disagree.

I don't think I have anything more to add at this point, so this will probably be my last comment in this thread. Good day to you.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Anslo
Scope Works
#120 - 2014-10-31 16:01:19 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:


Yes, well, apparently, "It has been decided", that nobody in A'J should give Dr. Tukoss the objects he requested, until "things are proven".

Who decided this, and what proof is required, I don't know, because this didn't seem to be mentioned on the IGS, or on the mailing list, so, it is a mystery to me as to who decided what, on what basis, and on whose authority.

I would think some kind of council to discuss those kind of important discussions, or at the very least, inform others of the reasons why someone is taking action unilaterally, would be helpful.

Obviously, it seems you disagree.

I don't think I have anything more to add at this point, so this will probably be my last comment in this thread. Good day to you.


So another case of cliques screening out the undesirables? Figures.

Huola Coalition fully withdraws any and all offers of assistance, fleet support and/or otherwise, to this project as it stands.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]