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The end of Corpmate Awoxxing?

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#181 - 2014-10-30 17:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#182 - 2014-10-30 17:54:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.

NPC pirates are not considered a threat by concord.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#183 - 2014-10-30 17:55:25 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.

NPC pirates are not considered a threat by concord.


Is that why there's a tutorial mission with precisely that? Along with a few other missions or arcs.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#184 - 2014-10-30 17:55:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.


Pretty sure it was never CONCORD's mandate to shoot at guristas and other such pirate group. I'm pretty sure they only have a word to say in affairs between capsulers such a corporation/alliance war declarations, illegal attack in high security space, ...
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#185 - 2014-10-30 17:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Mike Azariah wrote:
I try to see both sides of an argument, honest I do.

That this 'buffs hisec' and makes the game safer? Yeah I see that.

Thing is it does so by removing a stupid loophole. Can one of the opposition explain to me WHY it makes sense that I can shoot a guy in my corp but not a stranger? Why concord will react to one incident and not the other?

With dual mechanics we now have ways to 'test a tank' ignoring completely sisi server for the moment. So why did the awox mechanic make sense to you? I understand it made Eve 'dangerous' and allowed a certain type of gameplay but at the bottom of it . . . is there a logic to that rule?

m



Point is: this mechanic is bad for CCP's bottom line. Thus it's gonna be shot in the neck once everybody who could be harmed by it was harmed in the last 10 years. So then my doubt is, where are the noobs who will benefit from this? Why should they bother with EVE now just because of little tiny changes to obscure stuff like this?
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2014-10-30 17:57:43 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.


Concord has hired the Capsiuleer running the mission to handle the threat. They then allow him/her to succeed or fail on thier own merits. But they DO interfere with capsuleer/capsuleer violence unless the appropriate fees have been paid (wardec)

makes sense to me

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#187 - 2014-10-30 17:58:38 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.


Pretty sure it was never CONCORD's mandate to shoot at guristas and other such pirate group. I'm pretty sure they only have a word to say in affairs between capsulers such a corporation/alliance war declarations, illegal attack in high security space, ...


See above. Ever do the Angel Arc? You even hunt down and kill a CONCORD deputy. Sure seems like they are concerned with the NPCs.

It's pretty "inconsistent" for them to even shoot players at all if they can't deal with the actual pirates. Since "inconsistent" is also something the carebears seem so concerned with.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#188 - 2014-10-30 18:00:52 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.


Concord has hired the Capsiuleer running the mission to handle the threat. They then allow him/her to succeed or fail on thier own merits. But they DO interfere with capsuleer/capsuleer violence unless the appropriate fees have been paid (wardec)

makes sense to me

m


CONCORD is not the ones paying mission runners. They are almost exclusively one of the four factions.

So you're ignoring an inconsistency when it's in your favor. Okay, just wanted confirmation of that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2014-10-30 18:01:59 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.


Concord has hired the Capsiuleer running the mission to handle the threat. They then allow him/her to succeed or fail on thier own merits. But they DO interfere with capsuleer/capsuleer violence unless the appropriate fees have been paid (wardec)

makes sense to me

m


What about rats in belts that concord doesn't pay anyone to deal with?

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Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2014-10-30 18:03:35 UTC
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes
-walt witman

personally I had issue when Concord popped me when I was running an incursion and ignored the Sansha.

Yeah, It doesn't all make sense but that does not preclude me from liking it when it does.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#191 - 2014-10-30 18:06:58 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:

Yeah, It doesn't all make sense but that does not preclude me from liking it when it does.


It does preclude you from pointing that finger at others.

So let's knock off the "makes sense" bullshit, and talk about it on it's own merits, or lack thereof.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#192 - 2014-10-30 18:09:21 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.


Pretty sure it was never CONCORD's mandate to shoot at guristas and other such pirate group. I'm pretty sure they only have a word to say in affairs between capsulers such a corporation/alliance war declarations, illegal attack in high security space, ...


See above. Ever do the Angel Arc? You even hunt down and kill a CONCORD deputy. Sure seems like they are concerned with the NPCs.

It's pretty "inconsistent" for them to even shoot players at all if they can't deal with the actual pirates. Since "inconsistent" is also something the carebears seem so concerned with.


If the angel arc mark you kill a concord deputy, it means the angels want to kill concord, not that concord want to devote effort to kill pirates. If anything they seem rather happy to throw official currency the capsulers' way to kill them instead. You can make a living out of killing pirates from various organisation but don't mess around with other pilot licences holders. Your right to make money off CONCORD via bounties is tied to limitation. You can't attack a fellow capsuler in high security space unless some procedures were followed. Said procedure differ depending where you are committing the infraction.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#193 - 2014-10-30 18:10:07 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:

Yeah, It doesn't all make sense but that does not preclude me from liking it when it does.


It does preclude you from pointing that finger at others.

So let's knock off the "makes sense" bullshit, and talk about it on it's own merits, or lack thereof.

It is a major inconsistency that we can shoot corp mates w/o concord intervention, but not alliance mates. The proposed changes remedy that inconsistency. Lol
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#194 - 2014-10-30 18:11:37 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:

Yeah, It doesn't all make sense but that does not preclude me from liking it when it does.


It does preclude you from pointing that finger at others.

So let's knock off the "makes sense" bullshit, and talk about it on it's own merits, or lack thereof.

It is a major inconsistency that we can shoot corp mates w/o concord intervention, but not alliance mates. The proposed changes remedy that inconsistency. Lol


Personally, I am surprised that alliance bookmarks are still ignored.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#195 - 2014-10-30 18:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Gaan Cathal wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
The issue is not that AWOXing is going away. It is not going away, full stop. It may require more social engineering now, which is good! It might be more difficult, and more rewarding, gameplay for those inclined toward it.

That remains to be seen, nothing is concrete yet, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[....]

With reference to the topic of awoxing and predatory gameplay and any changes to them; some see it as the start of a slippery slope in which Eve ends up as a shadow of its former self, only time will tell.


I dunno how much 'remains to be seen' - the only aspect of AWOXing that's being removed is Concord-free killing. AWOXing in it's original form, corp theft, spying, etc remain completely unaffected by this.
As far as I'm aware awoxing in its original form was used to do precisely what the proposed changes are removing, make corpmates explode without NPC intervention (Sources TMC, Jester's Trek and Eve-Search). Now it includes any activities such as spying and corp theft.

Quote:
One thing that I do think might be worth tagging onto the change when it does land, is extension of Concord arrival timers in mission pockets. Call it a simulation of Concord having to get to the gate then through it rather than making a direct warp if you need an ingame justification. What it does in practice is extend the time-before-ship-loss for someone ganking a missioner.
I don't have a problem with this, and missioning is my primary income source. It introduces something new to compensate for losing something old. I doubt you'll find many supporters amongst the carebear crowd though.

Quote:
Freighter/hauler/miner ganking seems to me to be in a reasonable place right now and would be unaffected by this.
Agreed, but once again you'll get dissent from the carebear crowd about any form of highsec shenanigans being in a reasonable place.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#196 - 2014-10-30 18:12:25 UTC
So if these changes come in, when doing PvP practice with newbies, corps should take them to lowsec.....right?

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#197 - 2014-10-30 18:12:32 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

If the angel arc mark you kill a concord deputy, it means the angels want to kill concord, not that concord want to devote effort to kill pirates.


One wonders why CONCORD is in Curse, then.


"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#198 - 2014-10-30 18:14:59 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Persifonne wrote:
When will hisec become pvp free (except for duels and wardecs). Anyone activating weapons on player ship that you arent wardecced to, isnt flashy red or in a duel with will get concorded. Only pvp in lowsec null and wh. This day is coming. It is closer than we think.


I'm ready to unsub my accounts basically any time at this point.

No point in staying subbed... once EVE goes themepark it'll go the way of all the other themepark MMOs.

In it's place some other small, niche, dark game will pop up to satisfy people who actually enjoy hard games without having their hands held.


AWOXING has nothing to do with Eve being hard or player skill. It's an exploit. Doesn't make sense from a lore perspective that the police will come to stop crime in a highly policed area except when the crime is a betrayal of a friend.

AWOXERs need to get a real job. Do something hard in Eve. There's plenty to do. Eve is a hard game. AWOXING isn't one of them.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2014-10-30 18:16:55 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
AWOXERs need to get a real job. Do something hard in Eve.

EVE Mining is hard.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#200 - 2014-10-30 18:17:29 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:

Yeah, It doesn't all make sense but that does not preclude me from liking it when it does.


It does preclude you from pointing that finger at others.

So let's knock off the "makes sense" bullshit, and talk about it on it's own merits, or lack thereof.


Sure as long as you discuss it from the point of view of those who have/had to take the decision. Put yourself in CCP's shoes and imagine that you actually have the stats of who is leaving. Now, since we can't really work from what we know because we don't have the stats for real, I will ask you to make sure you form an opinion from both possibilities, One from a scenario where awoxing does not cost subs and one from a scenario where it does. You have to monetize your work and you know your are extremely averse to trying the cash shop option too much after the epic rage the player showed the last time you tried it.

I'll even cut your job a bit and grant you that if it does not hurt subs, there is absolutely no reasons to change this so you only really have to think about what you might do if it did.

Both option might be true in reality but we don't know which scenario is actually being played right now.