EVE General Discussion

Where did CCP say they were ging to increase the difficulty in evading wardecs.

And that "meaningful pvp where both sides have fun" is BS, this is EVE, the way to "have fun" is to outsmart the other guy, not some 'fairness' mechanics.

CCP gettiing rid of corp awoxxing can only be a good thing for me, but it's still wrong for this game, it's still CCP going the wrong way. Now people can join corps and as long as the corp doesn't give them roles, everyone is safe except for suicide ganking. Tha'ts boring and anti-EVE.



Also (since you mentioned it) it's no surpise that you came to the same false conlusion (about my comment that ships exploding is good for a game about ships exploding) Greyscale did. I was explaining to him that the idea that nerfing jump ranges will create more "local conflict" (while killing events like Asakai and B-R) is as crazy an idea as actually thinking this was going to work:



CCP thought nerfing anomaly spawns would create 'conflict'. What it actually did was make things worse, devaluing so much null space that renting (something that was small scale prior to this change) became the norm, leading to the 'blue donut'. Likewise, this jump range nerf will lead to null powers consolidating in "near null" and renting out space (and safe passage, because the only reliable way will be through BLOC territory, even to NPC space) to 'deep null', turning the blue donut into a BLUE BRICK that's even worse than the current blue donut.

There is something...backwards...about the development culture at CCP. This awoxxing change is just another example.

CCP brought up 3 issues:
1) New players get caught by a game mechanic that is not intuitive. The only way around that is either present them with walls of text explaining an odd game mechanic, or change the mechanic.
2) AWOXing.
3) Corp recruitment.

The last issue seemed to be the big one for CCP. Most CEOs approach recruitment in one of 3 ways:

1) Only recruit people you know in real life
2) Turn yourself into a detective agency, checking everyone out, having "new member" subsidiary corps, and so on.
3) Recruit openly, and deal with the consequences.

Most eve corps take option 1. Option 2 turns eve into a job, and most CEOs want to play a game, not have a second job as a detective agency. A few do option 3.

The result is a general push that keeps players in NPC corps. There are many ways to increase your safety in eve, but one of the best is to stay in an NPC corp, or in you are a CEO, don't recruit. CCP has data that indicates players who stay in NPC corps quit sooner than players who join corps.

The conclusion: The game needs ways to make being in a corp, or growing your corp, more desirable and easier.

If you are so good a thinking by yourself, you should spot the writing on the wall as why this is happening. No matter how right r wrong he is, someone at CCP pushed this idea and the kick queue and got what he wanted. I'm gonna go with a guess and say his argument involved $$$.

Well said. Sadly, some people will never get that, and in their narrow-mindedness they'll think a bad change (which takes away the need for caution, which provides a sense of danger and thus fun in a video game) is actually a good change.

CCP should not devlaue the efforts of those of us who take responsibilty for our game play experience (as oppsoed to those who do nothing but lay blame elsewhere and then beg CCP for game mechanics crutches on which to lean).


As for the guy saying that you are trying to tell him how to play, well, you aren't Jonah.

I, however, AM.

DAMN RIGHT I am. If the choice is "you get to play the way you want including not having to think about what youre doing or who you are doing it with" or "EVE is dangerous, you need to be aware at all times while undocked, even in high sec surrounded by corp mates" (our way), then hell yes you have to play our way or suffer the consequences. You can't claim that sloth and lazyness is a 'valid playstyle'. If they want lazy, they should have to leave EVE and install some themepark MMO that does lazy.

TL;DR for those that suffer from selective reading

YOU are responsible for your own safety in Eve, if you can't accept that responsibility then you shouldn't be playing a game like Eve.

Because that's exactly what it is.

CCP spitting in the face of one group of players to bow and scrape in front of another.

One group matters, and if CCP goes too far they'll find out exactly which group that is.






So then you can't awox. At least be honest about taking a position on the sniveling, risk averse coward side.



Entirely untrue. A legal target is a legal target, always.

Forgive me if I don't believe you, while you and yours celebrate the death of my playstyle.



If closing a "stupid loophole" (by the way my playstyle is not a stupid loophole, thanks) means that highsec ends up with a net buff to safety, then other things need to be buffed to compensate.

Wardecs should not permit dodging, and CONCORD response time should be lowered across the board.

Awoxing is, right now one of the few decent ways to actually inflict damage on people in highsec. Highsec is too safe already. If you make it moreso, you HAVE to take something away in balance.

I don't care about whatever lore non logic you want to use to justify this.

Buffing highsec is unacceptable.

In my first half year of playing me and my corpmate used to surprise shoot at each other for lols and to be reminded to always keep the guards up. Losses always were paid by the winner. This was fun, because it could happen anytime out of nowhere.

If CCP really believes this will help player retention, then this game is doomed.

Tell me, you CSM person, what are they doing against the real reasons that make new players quit?

.) Player run New player corps which do not provide gameplay for their new players, or completely one sided gameplay.

.) Vets in rookie corps who make people mine or run missions, which equals to playing solo or not at all, although CCP themselves said that players who become social are more likely to stay.

.) Vets in rookie corps who lie about lowsec and the attitude of PvPers in general.

.) Player run New player corps who do not teach anything and force their members to become targets,
instead of making them understand how to survive and defend themselves.


I will wait for your response.

I support concord response to awoxers. Concorde should respond to all unsanctioned aggression in hisec. Awoxers should have to at least think a bit, instead of just praying on new corp members in a one-sided risk-free engagement.

Remove the loophole.

Yes, and that's the problem: The best way to take precautions to ensure that your little PVE corp doesn't become a victim of the latter group is to not recruit people. CCP has hard data that says that new players who get into a corp quickly stick around a lot longer, which should really not surprise anyone who plays this game. EVE is and has always been primarily about players dealing with other players.

The issue is not that AWOXing is going away. It is not going away, full stop. It may require more social engineering now, which is good! It might be more difficult, and more rewarding, gameplay for those inclined toward it.

This change is good to the extent that it accomplishes the following:

1) makes corps more comfortable recruiting newbies;

2) makes newbies more comfortable creating corps (why shouldn't you have a shot at learning by doing?);

3) streamlines and makes consistent the rules of engagement in high sec, which is where most newbies are going to learn the game;

4) makes the rules of membership in a social group more intuitive to new players.

Remember, EVE has a terrible retention rate. This is a real problem, and they need to solve it. This is one step in the direction of a solution. I don't expect that AWOXing or predatory gameplay in high sec will go away any time soon. Why would it?