Intergalactic Summit

You description of the events is so exaggerated that there is little point in continuing the discussion. This is why I said your 'cause' is nonexistent. You are attempting to create crisis, drama, and scandal where there is none. You cannot attempt to speak for or be offended on behalf of a group that itself does not share your concerns and expect yourself to be taken seriously.

Put simply, you do not speak for Achura and being Achura yourself does not give you the leeway to attempt to invent wrongs and division where it does not exist.

She was asking a Gods damn question Jace, take a blue pill or something and cut the warrior mode posting crap.

Mister Sarice,

I will state once more that I do not paticularly have a cause - Or indeed, an interest to create any sort of scandal - simply an opinion, and that I also was not paticularly looking for a discussion to begin with. I percieved your original words to be stated due to lack of understanding of my intent, and not a fundemental objection as it has come to appear to be. I apologize if you feel I have dragged you into anything you did not wish for. (Though I will comment that it was you who escalated the conversation by attacking me personally.)

I also hope that I have never given the impression that I speak for all Achur, because I certainly do not - The Faith teaches passivity and acceptance in the face of conflict and change, and of the inherent transience of us all in the face of the cosmos and powers far greater then ourselves, to seek to understand rather then to subvert. With this is mind, it is completely understandable why there is very little fuss amongst the remanining independent Achur community, which is known for it's considerable spiritualism.

However, a pot being shattered and no one choosing to remark on it does not make the pot magically intact, and a brutish act that no one makes much noise over remains brutish all the same. I find it a little crude that you have chosen to simply dismiss me completely by speaking ad hominem, rather then addressing anything I have said, especially considering I do not believe I have said anything incorrect. Would you be interested in telling me what exactly I'm saying that is "so exaggerated"? I am unironically curious to know.

Consider before you speak that the following is historical fact, as we've gone over already:

1) The Sukuuvestaa corporation arrived at the homeworld during the secret colonization, deposed the Imperial government, and established itself as rulers of the Achur people.
2) The Sukuuvestaa corporation conducted industry on the planet in those early days, displacing many natives of the countryside.
3) The Sukuuvestaa corporation "uplifted" many of the Achur, and redesigned almost all major cities on the planet.
4) The Sukuuvestaa corporation continues to "own" these cities to the present day.

Of course, if you are quite done, that is also fine.

Pieter,

Unless you're talking about my very first repsonse to mister Sarice, I would ask if it would not also spoil your mood a little if someone were to dismiss an issue close to your heart as simply not existing, by using technical truths against you. For example, if I were to say, "There have been millions of Caldari living peacefully on Caldari prime for centuries. Your desire to return it to your people is meaningless.", that would make you rather annoyed, right?

...I don't actually believe that, just for the record. That's a completely terrible opinion.

I never said that some asperity wasn't warranted, Gwen. Just that Sarice-haan's opinion is a legitimate mainstream opinion in the wider State (I'm fortunate enough to have grown up around both Native and State accultured Achurans) and that your response wasn't dispassionate.

That, actually, does help explain a lot. Thank you.

Capsuleer Ikiryo,

I welcome your attempt to improve the State's scientific body. I have therefore tried to answer your questions in an objective way below, doing my best to refrain from any personal opinions on you, your statements, or the questions themselves, in the interest of science and education only. My answers are often critical of some presumptions of the questions, that is true, but only because critical reading is a fundamental scientific endeavour, not because I am critical of you.


Please answer the following if you are an ethnic Achur or of mixed Achuran heritage.

1. When speaking in terms of your identity, would you foremostly describe yourself as an Achura, or a Caldari?

My education tells me that these are concepts of differing magnitudes. The Achura can be compared to the Deteis or the Civire, but not to the Caldari. I have not found any reason to question my education in this respect:

I am Achura and I am Caldari.

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2. Were you born on our homeworld of Achura Prime/Saisio III, or elsewhere?

I was born on Kamokor V.

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3. Were you raised in the Achuran client state or one of it's very few outposts, or under a megacorporation?

I was raised in an educational system organized and run by the Lai Dai megacorporation.

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3B. If the latter, were you content with the necessity to comform to the Caldari cultural norms to be accepted? Did you feel you were provided with satisfactory education about your ethnic history?

Ethnicity and culture are treacherous concepts and one should not accept their use at face value.

My education tells me that there is no Caldari cultural norm as distinct from an Achuran one. Often, an attempt to define any cultural distinctiveness is an attempt by a group (often a population majority) to define another group as inferior to itself. The reason for doing so is in order to gain a competitive advantage for resources, positions of power etc.

That, of course, is not acceptable, and any Caldari citizen would see through that attempt and accept only products and people based on their quality and personal merit, not on any notion of ethnic heritage or based on origin of manufacture.

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4. To whom would you say you hold the most loyalty: The Elder Visionaries - the provisional government of the homeworld, based around the remnants of the old empire - The Chief Executive Panel, or neither?

Actually a harder question to answer than it would be for me two months ago. As a planetside citizen I would say my loyalty was to the Lai Dai corporation and whatever entity that corporation would choose to lend its loyalty to, nominally the Patriot affiliation of the Caldari State.

As a capsuleer, however, I have been selected for immortality and work independent of the Lai Dai corporation. The School of Applied Knowledge has made it clear that I can join any corporation in the cluster, work for entities far outside the borders of the State and choose any direction in order to fulfill my individual potential. To achieve that true potential, I am no longer certain there is any need for any strict loyalties.

I believe I will spend more time meditating on the Kutuoto Miru in order to perceive how this situation best should be approached.

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5. Do you follow one of the many sects of the Faith of the Achur, the Caldari Way, or neither/another religion?

As said above, I do not agree with comparing Achura and Caldari as concepts of the same magnitude. To exemplify, not to ridicule you, I have not heard of the sect or religion ”the Caldari Way” and suspect I do not agree with the presumptions of the question. I will not answer this.

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6. Are you familar with Sukuuvestaa's early actions on our homeworld, where they demolished and replaced many of our major cities, deposed our native leadership, and assumed minority rule over the planet, enforcing Caldari culture in the process?

SuVee's general tendencies to sloppy workmanship leads me to believe that these statements may have some truth in them, even if I am not familiar with the details.

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6A. Do you believe this was a good and justified action?

We Achura are strong and competent citizens of the State, often out-performing Deteis and Civire, especially in the fields of Research and Development. We work hard, we fulfill our duties, we invent quality equipment. We do not need anyone's pity or remorse pertaining to historical events in order to define ourselves.

The concept of "Good" or reasons of justification I believe are concepts of interest to Gallente professors at the University of Caille. The SuVee actions were successful. That is all that counts. Even if it was sloppy.

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7. Would you consider native Achuran culture to have a great deal in common with native Caldari culture, as is often claimed, or to even be essentially one and the same?

Again. Deteis and Civire culture are no more Caldari culture than Achura culture is.

I have corrected this error in the original post.

I don't want to speak up extensively again for fear of completely derailing the thread, but I'll briefly thank mister Antolliere for his defense of my intentions, and miss Loustalainen for her very honest and straightforward response. It was the sort of thing that I had hoped to see when I started this topic.

Actually, there is one thing I'd like to briefly ask, if you're still looking, miss Loustalainen: Since you obviously have a very practical and pragmatic mindset and little sentimentality - Which I'm not suggesting is a bad thing, mind you - How do you feel about how the States need to reclaim Caldari Prime has driven foreign and economic policy in recent years? If you find this question trite, then please feel free to ignore it.

It is well we are sometimes asked questions which challenge our abilities to analyze the circumstances and come to logical answers. Personally, I am not well versed in foreign policy, and do not often read news pertaining to non-scientific matters. Some bullet points come to mind, but I would call my thinking on the matter fragmented rather than conclusive.

Two months ago, I would leave answering questions about foreign policy to the Lai Dai corporation. My current status as a capsuleer however, seems to require of me to form an opinion.

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I believe the attack on Caldari Prime was a successful large-scale test of the then-new clone soldier technology.

I believe that unless there is some urgent need of testing new military technology, we Caldari should refrain from symbolic wars and focus on developing our weapons and military strategies. What is the strategic value of Caldari Prime, an island within Federation Space? Low, I would say.

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I believe the strengthening of central power and the Provists was detrimental to the internal competition between the mega-corporations.

Nationalism is a belief, not a skill, and power should be held by those who are most skillful, not by any right of blood. There are those who try to hide their inferiority behind a curtain of Nationalism. With my own eyes I saw skillful Gallente-expatriates being killed by less merited Civire during the riots of the Kamokor V Lai Dai facilities in YC110.

We Caldari are superior because our organization, education and training is superior, not because we are Caldari by blood. Our society's organization is fundamentally linked to internal competition between the mega-corporations and too much co-operation (voluntary or not) is not efficient in the long run.

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I believe an unfortunate side-effect of the attack and the subsequent factional war seems to be that the Federation is now better armed, better prepared and better organized (especially its capsuleer forces) than it was before YC 110. The Federation should be left to self-destruct by means of its internal corruption, its degenerate educational system and its frequent celebration of random individual stupidity.

If left to itself, with time there would be scores of skillful Gallente migrating into Caldari space just to be able to fulfill their potential. Attacking the Federation directly, on the other hand, gives Federation citizens a reason to unify.

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Thank you for your candor and detail in answering my rather probing question, miss Loustalainen. I found your response to be informative and your logic to be consistant. I very much appreciate it, and won't inquire further.

I did want to clarify something, though. I got the impression from your original reply, though I might've been mistaken, that you feel I am being somewhat regressively minded in regard to expectations on a racial level with the undertones of this exercise - You know, saying, "It's such a pity that so many Achura have abandoned their true way of life to assimilate into a group of foreigners", or, "If you're not living like this, you're betraying your heritage/blood/ancestors/other guilt-tripping buzzwords and your identity is false", or something to that effect.

I wanted to make it clear this is not my intent. Race, as you said, deserves to be put on no pedestal as a concept, and the States actions towards the Achur in the now distant past should not have any meaning to you inherently if you do not wish them to. I only really based this around it because when evaluating the health of a culture, going to the ethnic root of it is a good place to start.

Though I will not call myself unbiased, I do not intend to be critical of you, or even, really, anyone. In many senses I respect, or even envy, your assimilation into wider State cutlure - Like most Achura currently alive outside of the homeworld - and your ability to distance yourself from these issues, and base your opinions completely on rational thinking rather then an emotional investment. My life would certainly have been a fair bit less complicated if I were born under a megacorporation rather then the client state, that is for certain. I would certainly not have posted this thread.

Though I will remark that I think you view the State - Or rather, "Being Caldari" as a higher concept - in a slightly idealized light, as I think Caldari culture carries a fair deal of cultural baggage specifically from Deteis and Civire culture that extend beyond the core ideals of meritocracy, pragmatism, and competitive unity, or occasionally even work against them. As a random example, you're probably aware of the Caldari custom of drinking tea from the Kresh leaves of their homeworld as part of a test of endurance or attempt to redeem oneself to ones peers. Kresh leaves are, with certain preparation, poisonous to most. But natural selection on the Caldari homeworld left their bloodlines immune to this, to an extent. So the idea is, if you drink it, and survive, you must be "strong", and therefore have merit. This is still sometimes practiced amongst the higher ranks of the megacorporate structure to resolve disputes.

However, if you were to drink Kresh tea at such a ceremony, you would, with complete certainty, fall quite dead. I'm not suggesting they'd ever put you in that position, but the fact that Deteis and Civire continue this custom rather the abolishing it to serve our peoples integration is one of the many small gulfs that exist between us, even in the context of us all as equal State citizens.



Mister Akachi,

I won't tie you up in debate again, but I just wanted to briefly comment that this is historically incorrect. While some of the government survived, before the State arrived, we used to have a monarchy.

We no longer have a monarchy.