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The end of Corpmate Awoxxing?

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#81 - 2014-10-30 14:23:17 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Maybe then its that CCP would prefer subs payed with real money than free PLEX-subs ?

Im pretty sure CCP is a real company and not a EVE fairytale one... so no paying the bills with ISK Smile

I think EVE is too top-heavy with peeps that don't pay subs with real money anymore but are so powerful they almost call the shots.

Every PLEX in the system has been purchased for real money, and costs more than your monthly sub.

For example a single PLEX costs £16.99 in the UK, a monthly sub costs £9.99. Ergo CCP make more money through people paying their sub via PLEX than they do from people paying their sub direct.

TL;DR You have no idea what you're talking about.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#82 - 2014-10-30 14:31:12 UTC
Excellent News! I've always thought this would be a good idea to get changed. Sure, there are players who enjoy joining corps and ganking a bunch of people and they won't be able to do that anymore. The thing is that's a small group of people and they undoubtedly like a good many other methods of ganking people in EVE. The upside to the change would be that newer players wanting to become part of the social groups which make EVE what it is will be able to do so with a far greater ease, and without undocking their first ever battleship, getting blown up by their "friends" for no reason beyond "the lulz" and quitting.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#83 - 2014-10-30 14:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Lucas Kell wrote:
Excellent News! I've always thought this would be a good idea to get changed. Sure, there are players who enjoy joining corps and ganking a bunch of people and they won't be able to do that anymore. The thing is that's a small group of people and they undoubtedly like a good many other methods of ganking people in EVE. The upside to the change would be that newer players wanting to become part of the social groups which make EVE what it is will be able to do so with a far greater ease, and without undocking their first ever battleship, getting blown up by their "friends" for no reason beyond "the lulz" and quitting.



YAY, newbies can join a corp in a game where it's increasingly unlikely that anything really interesting or noteworthy will ever happen.

This is the exact opposite of what EVE should be doing. Playing EVE should keep a player on edge, not making him feel comfortable. The last thing CCP should be doing is making it easier for a player who would have quit had he been confronted with an unpleasant reality. CCP should be trying to find ways to intice more emotionally stable and tough minded players into the game, not catering to the lowest common denominator like almost all other MMOs do.
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#84 - 2014-10-30 14:46:42 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

TL;DR You have no idea what you're talking about.



Seems that way... Oops


Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#85 - 2014-10-30 14:52:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Excellent News! I've always thought this would be a good idea to get changed. Sure, there are players who enjoy joining corps and ganking a bunch of people and they won't be able to do that anymore. The thing is that's a small group of people and they undoubtedly like a good many other methods of ganking people in EVE. The upside to the change would be that newer players wanting to become part of the social groups which make EVE what it is will be able to do so with a far greater ease, and without undocking their first ever battleship, getting blown up by their "friends" for no reason beyond "the lulz" and quitting.



YAY, newbies can join a corp in a game where it's increasingly unlikely that anythingreally interesting or noteworthy will ever happen.

This is the exact opposite of what EVE should be doing. Playing EVE should keep a player on edge, not making him feel comfortable. The last thing CCP should be doing is making it easier for a player who would have quit had he been confronted with an unpleasant reality. CCP should be trying to find ways to intice more emotionally stable and tough minded players into the game, not catering to the lowest common denominator like almost all other MMOs do.


Would'nt they limit their own growth that way?

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#86 - 2014-10-30 14:52:56 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

TL;DR You have no idea what you're talking about.



Seems that way... Oops


+1 for being able to admit it P, that's makes you significantly better than others I could name.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
ll Kuray ll
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#87 - 2014-10-30 14:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ll Kuray ll
Personally, and this is a gut feeling, the reason why the majority of people play this game isn't to be a jackass and screw peoples' game over. However asking loyal players why they unsub I bet for sure top reasons are because some one was a jackass and ruined 6 months of work in the game or they lost their game savings to a gank, of which you took all the precautions possible. People obviously are looking at this and prioritising their life. People are accepting when they have something to show for their efforts, when they don't they choose to unsub.

Ask me why ill unsub. Eve has always been about choice and response. If I made the choice to gank someone 4 years ago I expected to pay with losing an expensive ship and then have to grind to make it back and therefore pay with it via real money or time in game. Its now too easy to make a choice and not have a real consequence.

Coming from experience, the people who are loyal to CCP are the majority who sign in and can play it safe.

Over the last 12 months the stats of Eve don't make for pretty reading. It's gone from 65k signed in players to 37k. Is the drop of players a connection to the increased occurrence of either a gank or awox ? Could be, I think it's all tied in.

It's cheaper to keep buying customers happy and the thing with awoxers and gankers all they need to do is do it a few times and they have the flexibility to sign in and out when they please. Not like the players who are willing enough to keep grinding.

It's what I said earlier

Good luck to anyone who tries to find a balance between the needs of those that:

Pay with real money and want to be in their own "leave me alone" world [IMPORTANT!]
Pay with real money and want to be in the "dark world [IMPORTANT!
Make enough in game ISK to sub their accounts and want to be in their own "leave me alone" world
Make enough in game ISK to sub their accounts and want to be in the 'dark' world

I think you take on a different perspective if you pay with real money to play the game.
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#88 - 2014-10-30 15:00:03 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

TL;DR You have no idea what you're talking about.



Seems that way... Oops


+1 for being able to admit it P, that's makes you significantly better than others I could name.


Im just embarassed its only now that i understand how it works ...lol Lol

No use trying to hide my foot-in-mouth moments... i have so many of them ... Roll


Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#89 - 2014-10-30 15:04:49 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Persifonne wrote:
CCP STILL OBLIVIOUS TO FACT NEUTRAL LOGI R/R IS BIGGEST "GRIEF" FACTOR IN AWOX

They got corp kick que. Just fix neut logi but giving corpmates a stupid engaugment timer. Then rr suspect fixed.
While keeping corp violnce. Evrrybody wins yo


Pirate
Since Neutral Logi will be repaired:
Also we will get bumping repaired!

Nice!
Blink


I haven't read the latest CSM minutes yet so I don't know what they have said exactly. But if 'bumping' is 'repaired' I feel there will have to be a limit on how long you can stay in an NPC corp before you join a player run corp. An once you leave the NPC corp you shall not be able to return to one and remain in a corpless limbo section that can be wardecced.

Otherwise some capsuleers will not be able to be attacked which will set a bad precedent. If a miner joins a NPC corp, flies a Procurer, and 'bumping' gets 'repaired' they will be virtually indestructible. The only other way to fix the situation then would be to equal the build cost of a Procurer with the T2 mining vessels such as the Hulk & Mackinaw.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#90 - 2014-10-30 15:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
ll Kuray ll wrote:
Over the last 12 months the stats of Eve don't make for pretty reading. It's gone from 65k signed in players to 37k.
65k signed in players is not, and never has been, a regular state of affairs, that's why it's called a record.

The average player count over the last year is around 28k, over Eve's entire lifespan it is around 27.5k. (source)

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#91 - 2014-10-30 15:07:54 UTC
ll Kuray ll wrote:
Personally, and this is a gut feeling, the reason why the majority of people play this game isn't to be a jackass and screw peoples' game over. However asking loyal players why they unsub I bet for sure top reasons are because some one was a jackass and ruined 6 months of work in the game or they lost their game savings to a gank, of which you took all the precautions possible. People obviously are looking at this and prioritising their life. People are accepting when they have something to show for their efforts, when they don't they choose to unsub.

Ask me why ill unsub. Eve has always been about choice and response. If I made the choice to gank someone 4 years ago I expected to pay with losing an expensive ship and then have to grind to make it back and therefore pay with it via real money or time in game. Its now too easy to make a choice and not have a real consequence.

Coming from experience, the people who are loyal to CCP are the majority who sign in and can play it safe.

Over the last 12 months the stats of Eve don't make for pretty reading. It's gone from 65k signed in players to 37k. Is the drop of players a connection to the increased occurrence of either a gank or awox ? Could be, I think it's all tied in.

It's cheaper to keep buying customers happy and the thing with awoxers and gankers all they need to do is do it a few times and they have the flexibility to sign in and out when they please. Not like the players who are willing enough to keep grinding.

It's what I said earlier

Good luck to anyone who tries to find a balance between the needs of those that:

Pay with real money and want to be in their own "leave me alone" world [IMPORTANT!]
Pay with real money and want to be in the "dark world [IMPORTANT!
Make enough in game ISK to sub their accounts and want to be in their own "leave me alone" world
Make enough in game ISK to sub their accounts and want to be in the 'dark' world

I think you take on a different perspective if you pay with real money to play the game.


The online figures have dropped so much because of stagnation within Null sec sovereignty. CCP relaise this and are in the process of fixing it. Once that is fixed and wars can begin again you will see the figures rise.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#92 - 2014-10-30 15:11:00 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Maybe then its that CCP would prefer subs payed with real money than free PLEX-subs ?

Im pretty sure CCP is a real company and not a EVE fairytale one... so no paying the bills with ISK Smile

I think EVE is too top-heavy with peeps that don't pay subs with real money anymore but are so powerful they almost call the shots.

Every PLEX in the system has been purchased for real money, and costs more than your monthly sub.

For example a single PLEX costs £16.99 in the UK, a monthly sub costs £9.99. Ergo CCP make more money through people paying their sub via PLEX than they do from people paying their sub direct.

TL;DR You have no idea what you're talking about.


People buy PLEX to get ISK without having to 'farm' ISK. Other pilots who don't have the RL cash buy PLEX with ISK. No one actually subs their account by buying PLEX with RL cash.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#93 - 2014-10-30 15:13:21 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Excellent News! I've always thought this would be a good idea to get changed. Sure, there are players who enjoy joining corps and ganking a bunch of people and they won't be able to do that anymore. The thing is that's a small group of people and they undoubtedly like a good many other methods of ganking people in EVE. The upside to the change would be that newer players wanting to become part of the social groups which make EVE what it is will be able to do so with a far greater ease, and without undocking their first ever battleship, getting blown up by their "friends" for no reason beyond "the lulz" and quitting.



YAY, newbies can join a corp in a game where it's increasingly unlikely that anythingreally interesting or noteworthy will ever happen.

This is the exact opposite of what EVE should be doing. Playing EVE should keep a player on edge, not making him feel comfortable. The last thing CCP should be doing is making it easier for a player who would have quit had he been confronted with an unpleasant reality. CCP should be trying to find ways to intice more emotionally stable and tough minded players into the game, not catering to the lowest common denominator like almost all other MMOs do.


Would'nt they limit their own growth that way?


They've done so proficently that now they've come to realize that fear of AWOXing is keeping new players away from corporations as not recruiting anyone is the optimal strategy both for noobs and veterans. This makes that the only people willing to recruit anyone it's reverse AWOXers, which leads to many people's first and last corp experience in EVE is to be griefed by corpmates.

This means that people does not join corps and people who don't join corps don't say subbed for long (generally).

So now that CCP's is counting every dime, they are willing to kill one of the most stupid mechanics ever perpretated on a playerbase to improve corporation recruiting and thus long term retention of new players...

...that is, If they still can find any new players willing to join after 11 years. Roll
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#94 - 2014-10-30 15:16:33 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
There were 3 main reasons that have deterred me from joining Highsec corps -

1. Awoxxing
2. Wardeccs
3. Theft

Even if CCP knocks off reason 1, I still think 2 and 3 are a pretty big deterrent to joining corps, and a good reason for many to stay in NPC/1 man corps.

The answer then is to greatly increase taxes in NPC corps, for if people are going to get the benefits you mention by hiding out in NPC corps then there should be a much higher premium to get that.

Also, wardecs should follow a player who leaves a player corp, for one week (or until wardec ends) when they leave corp and join another (or go to an NPC corp). The existing exploit of ducking wardecs must be closed. IF wardec mechanics are to exist, they should be meaningful.

We've been beaten into pansification for years with nerf sticks, its time for some content creation carrots CCP.

F


NPC corps should be for new pilots only. They should be allowed to stay for four to six weeks and then have to join a player run corp or make their own corp. People who 'harvest' to stay in NPC corps continually should be banned from playing EVE Online.
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#95 - 2014-10-30 15:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Brochan McLeod
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Maybe then its that CCP would prefer subs payed with real money than free PLEX-subs ?

Im pretty sure CCP is a real company and not a EVE fairytale one... so no paying the bills with ISK Smile

I think EVE is too top-heavy with peeps that don't pay subs with real money anymore but are so powerful they almost call the shots.

Every PLEX in the system has been purchased for real money, and costs more than your monthly sub.

For example a single PLEX costs £16.99 in the UK, a monthly sub costs £9.99. Ergo CCP make more money through people paying their sub via PLEX than they do from people paying their sub direct.

TL;DR You have no idea what you're talking about.


People buy PLEX to get ISK without having to 'farm' ISK. Other pilots who don't have the RL cash buy PLEX with ISK. No one actually subs their account by buying PLEX with RL cash.



Ehh.... i do.... Shocked (not really, but almost)

Well i sub by paying with real cash and have twice bought and sold a plex for some ingame breathing space.

I'm the Captain of the Noob Team ... nice to make your aquaintance ... hihi

You can bet im pretty much NOT flying anything i cant afford to loose Lol

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#96 - 2014-10-30 15:18:13 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Excellent News! I've always thought this would be a good idea to get changed. Sure, there are players who enjoy joining corps and ganking a bunch of people and they won't be able to do that anymore. The thing is that's a small group of people and they undoubtedly like a good many other methods of ganking people in EVE. The upside to the change would be that newer players wanting to become part of the social groups which make EVE what it is will be able to do so with a far greater ease, and without undocking their first ever battleship, getting blown up by their "friends" for no reason beyond "the lulz" and quitting.



YAY, newbies can join a corp in a game where it's increasingly unlikely that anythingreally interesting or noteworthy will ever happen.

This is the exact opposite of what EVE should be doing. Playing EVE should keep a player on edge, not making him feel comfortable. The last thing CCP should be doing is making it easier for a player who would have quit had he been confronted with an unpleasant reality. CCP should be trying to find ways to intice more emotionally stable and tough minded players into the game, not catering to the lowest common denominator like almost all other MMOs do.


Would'nt they limit their own growth that way?


They've done so proficently that now they've come to realize that fear of AWOXing is keeping new players away from corporations as not recruiting anyone is the optimal strategy both for noobs and veterans. This makes that the only people willing to recruit anyone it's reverse AWOXers, which leads to many people's first and last corp experience in EVE is to be griefed by corpmates.

This means that people does not join corps and people who don't join corps don't say subbed for long (generally).

So now that CCP's is counting every dime, they are willing to kill one of the most stupid mechanics ever perpretated on a playerbase to improve corporation recruiting and thus long term retention of new players...

...that is, If they still can find any new players willing to join after 11 years. Roll


It does sound then like removing AWOXing may be a good idea. Although removing 'bumping' would be game-breaking IMO.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#97 - 2014-10-30 15:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Maybe then its that CCP would prefer subs payed with real money than free PLEX-subs ?

Im pretty sure CCP is a real company and not a EVE fairytale one... so no paying the bills with ISK Smile

I think EVE is too top-heavy with peeps that don't pay subs with real money anymore but are so powerful they almost call the shots.

Every PLEX in the system has been purchased for real money, and costs more than your monthly sub.

For example a single PLEX costs £16.99 in the UK, a monthly sub costs £9.99. Ergo CCP make more money through people paying their sub via PLEX than they do from people paying their sub direct.

TL;DR You have no idea what you're talking about.


People buy PLEX to get ISK without having to 'farm' ISK. Other pilots who don't have the RL cash buy PLEX with ISK. No one actually subs their account by buying PLEX with RL cash.
True enough, which is why I didn't say that P, but the fact is that CCP earn more money, however indirectly, from players who use PLEX as an alternative payment method.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#98 - 2014-10-30 15:20:05 UTC
ll Kuray ll wrote:

Arrow Pay with real money and want to be in their own "leave me alone" world [IMPORTANT!]
Arrow Make enough in game ISK to sub their accounts and want to be in their own "leave me alone" world


Obviously in this case the rights of the gankers take precedent. This is a multiplayer game, you have no right or entitlement to be "left alone". If you want to be "left alone", go play Mass Effect or some other single player game.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#99 - 2014-10-30 15:20:54 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Maybe then its that CCP would prefer subs payed with real money than free PLEX-subs ?

Im pretty sure CCP is a real company and not a EVE fairytale one... so no paying the bills with ISK Smile

I think EVE is too top-heavy with peeps that don't pay subs with real money anymore but are so powerful they almost call the shots.

Every PLEX in the system has been purchased for real money, and costs more than your monthly sub.

For example a single PLEX costs £16.99 in the UK, a monthly sub costs £9.99. Ergo CCP make more money through people paying their sub via PLEX than they do from people paying their sub direct.

TL;DR You have no idea what you're talking about.


People buy PLEX to get ISK without having to 'farm' ISK. Other pilots who don't have the RL cash buy PLEX with ISK. No one actually subs their account by buying PLEX with RL cash.



Ehh.... i do.... Shocked

Well i sub by paying with real cash and have twice bought and sold a plex for some ingame breathing space.

I'm the Captain of the Noob Team ... nice to make your aquaintance ... hihi

You can bet im pretty much NOT flying anything i cant afford to loose Lol


Why would you do that? All you needed to do is go to the account management page, start up a subscription, then once one payment had been taken cancel the subscription. Would be nearly half the price of PLEX then.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#100 - 2014-10-30 15:22:34 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Maybe then its that CCP would prefer subs payed with real money than free PLEX-subs ?

Im pretty sure CCP is a real company and not a EVE fairytale one... so no paying the bills with ISK Smile

I think EVE is too top-heavy with peeps that don't pay subs with real money anymore but are so powerful they almost call the shots.

Every PLEX in the system has been purchased for real money, and costs more than your monthly sub.

For example a single PLEX costs £16.99 in the UK, a monthly sub costs £9.99. Ergo CCP make more money through people paying their sub via PLEX than they do from people paying their sub direct.

TL;DR You have no idea what you're talking about.


People buy PLEX to get ISK without having to 'farm' ISK. Other pilots who don't have the RL cash buy PLEX with ISK. No one actually subs their account by buying PLEX with RL cash.
True enough, which is why I didn't say that P, but the fact is that CCP earn more money, however indirectly, from players who use PLEX as an alternative payment method.


You are correct there Jonah. CCP loves PLEX. Big smile