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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Anslo
Scope Works
#61 - 2014-10-29 18:27:40 UTC
OK so is this just going to end up being an endless parade of questions and paranoia? First he's fake. Then he may not be something good. What's next? He's the perfect Sansha/Sleeper secret spy so better to ignore him?

No offense but it just seems like this will go nowhere, ever. A healthy dose of paranoia is one thing. But I'm starting to get a feeling that this bullshit is gonna end up obstructed due to an over abundance of caution.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#62 - 2014-10-29 18:54:03 UTC
Don't look at me, I'm not involved in this after the initial mistake of escorting his sorry ass.
Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#63 - 2014-10-29 20:29:47 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:

As I understand it, the current stance from Acquisition is that nothing is going to be handed over until a satisfactory explanation has been given and verified.



Satisfactory to who though? the property may be yours (or more correctly The Antiquarians) to do with as you wish, but the consequences are not yours to bear alone.

To address the ancillary commentary knocking about along this line of conversation:

I highly doubt this is something so dramatic as 'the end of the cluster as we know it', but even a mere theft or con to obtain some exceptionally rare items would be a source of embarrassment and regret for those involved. This community has fallen far indeed if common caution is 'paranoia'.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer
Anslo
Scope Works
#64 - 2014-10-29 20:33:26 UTC
And you're clearly off your rocker when all the evidence points to this not being some gods damn thief. Here, let's try this.

People are crying thief or fake, fraud, etc.

Where's your evidence for this?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#65 - 2014-10-29 20:36:14 UTC
There is insufficient evidence either way, in which case caution is the sensible option. Though last time he spoke, Tukoss didn't have hexadecimal interlaced with his comms with running commentry such as 'equivalent term' and referential material.

Broken translator? Possible. Not too bright thief with a vocoder and bad translator set up? Also possible.

I'd ask you for your evidence that he is genuine, but your reputation precedes you. I'd welcome a surprise though.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#66 - 2014-10-29 20:37:05 UTC
These are incredibly rare and expensive artifacts of the past. Just handing them over without questioning the rather curious aspects of Tukoss' disappearance, reappearance, comms issues and other anomalies would be wildly irresponsible and dangerously naive to say the least.

I know I wouldn't part with such collectibles on his word alone, that's for damn sure.
Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#67 - 2014-10-29 20:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Aelisha
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
These are incredibly rare and expensive artifacts of the past. Just handing them over without questioning the rather curious aspects of Tukoss' disappearance, reappearance, comms issues and other anomalies would be wildly irresponsible and dangerously naive to say the least.

I know I wouldn't part with such collectibles on his word alone, that's for damn sure.


And here we have someone who gets it. Thank you Ms Del'thul and Ms Ma'Chello for illustrating that caution need not be based on some apocryphal nonsense, but instead the practicalities of preserving possession, heritage and rarities.

Ofcourse, these are priate possessions and their owners are capsuleers, so they can do as they wish, but I'd hope the counsel of their peers would mean at least a little in how they choose to act.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer
Anslo
Scope Works
#68 - 2014-10-29 20:40:33 UTC
Before I even bother to explain a damn thing, just what the hell do you mean by my reputation? Because if I'm about to walk into an argument against someone who has a biased opinion of me, I'm not even gonna try anymore.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#69 - 2014-10-29 20:44:10 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Before I even bother to explain a damn thing, just what the hell do you mean by my reputation? Because if I'm about to walk into an argument against someone who has a biased opinion of me, I'm not even gonna try anymore.


You have a reputation as an anarchic and somewhat unstable element in terms of action and opinion. Desirable traits in a killer and mercenary; not so much in an analysis of behaviour and the potential consequences of misplaced trust.

i appreciate you're very capable at the work you do in space, but i will admit to not placing you highly on a list of consultants on an issue such as this. However, if you have hard facts to bring to the table, I may have judged you poorly, and will ofcourse extend the appropriate apology.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer
Anslo
Scope Works
#70 - 2014-10-29 20:47:29 UTC
Well, let's think for a second.

When was the last time you remember anyone or anything being able to hack into the databases hosting personnel information, such as Hilen here, and being able to fake employment history, name, face, etc, etc?

Cause I sure as **** don't remember that ever happening. And if it IS possible, why the flying **** would a thief waste time on getting some body parts using a doctor's identity from a project dead for three ******* YEARS?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#71 - 2014-10-29 20:50:17 UTC
You're really too agitated by such a peripheral issue. You should calm down.

Furthermore, those are not facts, they are as much supposition as my own statements. Thank you for your input, however, your point of view might not be one I personally hold to, and is posed rather aggressively, but it is certainly a potential. If this is truly the legitimate return of Hilen Tukoss, I am sure that some will be elated and others (notably the State) will be rather less so.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer
Anslo
Scope Works
#72 - 2014-10-29 20:54:02 UTC
Well, the guys in hiding so there really isn't a sure fire way to go and get a DNA sample to satisfy the skeptics. I don't see what's the worst that could happen here. OK, so some evil sleeper agent gets a Jove body in Eram. Oh darn, what do we do?

Kill him.

It's not like he can get anywhere without a ship. Pretty sure the body parts existing in the first place speak to that.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Norman Vales
Vales' Research and Mining
#73 - 2014-10-29 21:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Norman Vales
From what I can tell, the hexadecimal lines read like console messages. Why they're there is anyone's guess. Either way, I'm more interested in keeping Project Theta on track than tracking various squabbles. Further on the Project Theta note, I've reviewed the accumulated simulation data, and would like to inform the interested parties that the results have been published.
Vincent Pryce
Damnation Angels
Watch This
#74 - 2014-10-30 00:41:56 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Mr. Pryce; some quick thoughts on identity. In the first place, Tukoss-haan's former employer was known for being on the bleeding edge of consciousness digitization. Their founder was evidently one of the first to undergo the process, even. What's more, we live in a world where memory engrams and skills can be imprinted on a mind by technical means; where consciousness can be scanned, backed up, or transmitted nearly-instantaneously to a fresh body, whose mind is a blank slate onto which a consciousness can be imprinted.

Clearly, 'mind' and 'body' are still linked-- but mostly due to the usual presumption that a biological brain is required for consciousness to exist. Clearly, this is a product of bias, not fact.

Now, a question for purpose of mental exercise. Let us say that a person suffers a blow to the head, and loses a portion of their memory, or their personality changes. While we will frequently say that they've changed, that they're a different person from their old self, we do not say that it is not the same person, excepting metaphorically. Similarly, let us say a mind-state transfer on clone activation goes awry, and the person loses a portion of their memory, etc.; we still consider it the same person, just, well, different. Why not apply this to a digitized consciousness?

What I suppose I'm saying is this: calling whatever is posting as Tukoss not Tukoss is, well, a little bit old-fashioned, provided that we're assuming that the security on the Summit is such that it can verify that the infomorph posting as Hilen Tukoss is indeed Hilen Tukoss, or a close enough simulacrum as to pass the security checks.

And ultimately, what's the harm in handing little pieces of Jove to him? I know this is a trope from terrible horror holos, but what's the worse that could happen? An improperly-digitized consciousness is imprinted onto a Jove body? And...? Biomass is cheap. The DNA isn't a superweapon. At worst case, he shows us how to use weird little facilities on wormhole space that we hadn't figured out before, or-- what?

Of course, this doesn't change that Tukoss abandoned an Ishukone subsidiary, and coerced capsuleers into firing on Ishukone ships during his flight to the Republic. Now, that is another thing entirely.


Giving someone the benefit of the doubt in this wonderful 'verse of ours is what gets you betrayed and at worst into an early grave, Priano. I'd imagine a capsuleer of your experience surely would know that by now, if not, I envy the idealistic naivete you still retain. More so goes with people who mysteriously disappear without a trace and then suddenly at the eve of new events arrives back to the scene posting in a manner uncharacteristic of them with radically different syntax and using hexadecimal code. That, my dear, is all the evidence I need to keep my guard up until I've been given reason to the contrary. I'm an old fashioned Angel, a gentleman's pirate. A healthy dose of paranoia is part of the decorum.

As for your questions and theoretical conundrums... I have no desire to get into a discussion about transhumanistic ideas, not in this vitriolic venue anyway. If you wish to continue this discussion further, you can reach me via the neocom system.

"From your Curse we made Heaven for ourselves."

Domination Seraphim

Cartel approved, Heaven blessed
Malcolm Faust
Cthulhu Expeditionary Force
#75 - 2014-10-30 03:24:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Faust
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
These are incredibly rare and expensive artifacts of the past. Just handing them over without questioning the rather curious aspects of Tukoss' disappearance, reappearance, comms issues and other anomalies would be wildly irresponsible and dangerously naive to say the least.

I know I wouldn't part with such collectibles on his word alone, that's for damn sure.




Nailed it.

I do support the dangerously naïve part though
Ollie Rundle
#76 - 2014-10-30 08:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ollie Rundle
In its previous iteration, any requests made of the Arek'Jalaan Acquisitions department usually required a research proposal to accompany them in order for the project's contributors to judge whether release of valuable resources was justified. This protocol applied to everyone involved with the project, Tukoss included.

I am yet to see an explanation or proposal for how Tukoss intends to use the items he has recently requested and note that said items are perhaps the most unique of any item requested for any purpose by Arek'Jalaan since it was founded.

While such a decision ultimately rests with the leads of the Acquisitions and Security departments I would humbly suggest that it seems reasonable to support them in their current position of with-holding the items until Tukoss can present some explanation for why such difficult to obtain and rare objects are required.

If there are individuals impatient with any delay such a cautious approach might incur they are of course free to obtain other copies of these items through their own efforts and do with them as they wish.
Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
#77 - 2014-10-30 12:48:11 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
In its previous iteration, any requests made of the Arek'Jalaan Acquisitions department usually required a research proposal to accompany them in order for the project's contributors to judge whether release of valuable resources was justified. This protocol applied to everyone involved with the project, Tukoss included.

I am yet to see an explanation or proposal for how Tukoss intends to use the items he has recently requested and note that said items are perhaps the most unique of any item requested for any purpose by Arek'Jalaan since it was founded.


This.

Even if there were absolutely no doubts about Dr. Tukoss' sudden reappearance and identity, this is the major obstacle for such a request.

I would like to remind everyone here that at the same time, an official Symposium is currently held to determine how the newly resurrected Arek'Jalaan should be organized. I would like to invite all the former prominent members of Arek'Jalaan who have not yet participated to look at the proposals, question them, or even offer another one. The symposium first phase will end very soon now.

If my proposal was to be selected (with or without a few amendments), greenlighting (or not) Dr. Tukoss's project would, given the incredible resources asked, undoubtedly be a task for the Division Leaders Council.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#78 - 2014-11-02 06:47:21 UTC
I get the impression that someone needs a body.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#79 - 2014-11-02 12:41:04 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I get the impression that someone needs a body.


Holy mother of missiles... All these body parts! That's a crazy theory, but you might actually be right.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Tiber Brucato
Really Great Space Corporation
United Neopian Federation
#80 - 2014-11-02 21:45:42 UTC
No fair. The last time I needed a body part I had to go ask a wizard. Got some nice shoes out of it though.