These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

T3 Destroyer question

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-10-29 02:24:41 UTC
If these ships can swap bonuses/stances on the fly...how is module fitting going to work? Will they be able to swap out of their cargohold out of combat or something? Kind of confused about how these are going to work with the transformer-ness.What?
DJ FunkyBacon
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc.
Monkeys with Guns.
#2 - 2014-10-29 02:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: DJ FunkyBacon
You're talking about a bonus being switched in and out, not a whole ship. Like taking extra speed to help catch up to a target, then switching the tank mode on once you've caught it and it's time to rumble.

Think of it as a bonus you can switch on the fly to take advantage of the current situation you find yourself in on the battlefield.

Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado.

funkybacon.com - Blog

FunkyBacon on Twitter
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#3 - 2014-10-29 12:07:51 UTC
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
You're talking about a bonus being switched in and out, not a whole ship. Like taking extra speed to help catch up to a target, then switching the tank mode on once you've caught it and it's time to rumble.

Think of it as a bonus you can switch on the fly to take advantage of the current situation you find yourself in on the battlefield.



Any info on how this will be done? Like, what button do you press? Is it a module? Is it some rc capacitor thingy?
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-10-29 12:20:24 UTC
patience
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-10-29 14:34:06 UTC
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
You're talking about a bonus being switched in and out, not a whole ship. Like taking extra speed to help catch up to a target, then switching the tank mode on once you've caught it and it's time to rumble.

Think of it as a bonus you can switch on the fly to take advantage of the current situation you find yourself in on the battlefield.

I think you misunderstand me. If i'm in 'snipe' mode with rails fit and i need to shift over to defensive mode because someone caught up to me or something along those lines, what's the advantage of having the ability to swap bonuses at all if your fitting doesn't reflect the advantages behind it?

Case in point: if you're trying to go for the 'speed' mode and you're not fast enough and start getting into a brawl with a guy who caught you, from where does the tank come from? Are we just going to have to try fitting half-assed do-everything fits? I mean, 75mm railguns work well enough on the corm for that but I really am having trouble understanding how this is supposed to work from a fitting standpoint.
Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-10-29 14:46:16 UTC
It'll fit like any other ship. That's what i've understood. The advantage comes from the ability to switch 'mode'. They won't design D3s to be kings of smaller ship combat, just different. You have to consider your fit like any other ship and tailor it to what you want it to do.

If you want to snipe, you fit a long range weapon system and some sensor boosters. Brawl? tackle and some tank with short range weapons. The speed/tank/whatever advantage granted by the modes are to give you a small edge in the field you need at the time. Not to make it a one size fits all pwnmachine.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-10-29 14:59:53 UTC
Anja Suorsa wrote:
It'll fit like any other ship. That's what i've understood. The advantage comes from the ability to switch 'mode'. They won't design D3s to be kings of smaller ship combat, just different. You have to consider your fit like any other ship and tailor it to what you want it to do.

If you want to snipe, you fit a long range weapon system and some sensor boosters. Brawl? tackle and some tank with short range weapons. The speed/tank/whatever advantage granted by the modes are to give you a small edge in the field you need at the time. Not to make it a one size fits all pwnmachine.

ok so...let me try and clarify my issue here a little better since I don't think I'm articulating it well enough. The point made earlier about using a brawler fit in speed mode makes a certain degree of sense in regards to closing range to tackle, but what about other configurations and modes? While I'm guessing that there will be a little more breathing room slot and fitting-wise for these things than normal destroyers, generally having a weapon system backed up by your module fitting that can do all these things is going to be very difficult to try and pull off effectively.

I guess it might be less of an issue than I'm thinking of since if you look at the comet, its tracking speed with rails is actually fairly decent with the right setup, and if we're given enough fitting space with these ships where we DON'T have to waste a low and a rig slot or two to fit the damn ship up like we're forced to with the corax *coughbuffpgcpucough* then I see this as being far less of an issue. I'm just very wary about how they'll pass things off with them weapon-system wise.

I'm thinking that maybe we might see some decent-sized unbonused drone bays on the gallente and amarr ships with bonuses to their primary weapon systems of hybrids and lasers, respectively. The minmatar and caldari ones I think will focus on missiles, with the caldari one being a little more geared towards light missiles. A good way to go i think with the 'kite' mode for the amarr and gallente destroyers would be dropping the weapon damage bonus in favor of a tracking speed bonus when it shifts, and giving some damage/hp bonuses.
Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-10-29 15:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Anja Suorsa
The advantage comes from being able to choose which mode is most useful to you at any given time.

A crude example:

Assume the destroyer we're talking about is a glorified Hawk. It has bonuses to Rocket and Light Missile max velocity and rate of fire with an extra bonus for kinetic damage. In addition, it has its famous bonus to shield boost amount. However you fit this ship, LML kite or Rocket brawling, the slot layout and fitting stats remain fixed, so you have to decide what you want it to do to get the most out of it. The difference between a Hawk and this destroyer comes around with those same bonuses. I can choose to switch the Shield boost bonus for a bonus to max velocity. The fit remains the same, but I now move faster at the cost of reduced shield boosting. Once i've caught the guy, I can switch back if I feel the shield boosting bonus is more beneficial, or stick with the speed if I need to dictate range more.

Thats the basic premise. There isn't going to be any huge change in the ship when you flick between modes. You'll pick your fit for the job and fly with it. The mode switches are for buffs to stats that are beneficial to you as the pilot, as and when you choose to activate them.

I think perhaps you might be reading into it too much and I honestly mean no offense by that.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-10-29 15:51:56 UTC
Anja Suorsa wrote:
The advantage comes from being able to choose which mode is most useful to you at any given time.

A crude example:

Assume the destroyer we're talking about is a glorified Hawk. It has bonuses to Rocket and Light Missile max velocity and rate of fire with an extra bonus for kinetic damage. In addition, it has its famous bonus to shield boost amount. However you fit this ship, LML kite or Rocket brawling, the slot layout and fitting stats remain fixed, so you have to decide what you want it to do to get the most out of it. The difference between a Hawk and this destroyer comes around with those same bonuses. I can choose to switch the Shield boost bonus for a bonus to max velocity. The fit remains the same, but I now move faster at the cost of reduced shield boosting. Once i've caught the guy, I can switch back if I feel the shield boosting bonus is more beneficial, or stick with the speed if I need to dictate range more.

Thats the basic premise. There isn't going to be any huge change in the ship when you flick between modes. You'll pick your fit for the job and fly with it. The mode switches are for buffs to stats that are beneficial to you as the pilot, as and when you choose to activate them.

I think perhaps you might be reading into it too much and I honestly mean no offense by that.

that clears things up quite a bit for me actually, thank you.Smile
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#10 - 2014-10-31 08:58:22 UTC
I have this idea in my head where mechanically, it works just like an (automatically fitted perhaps) scripted module.

Right click > pick mode, Left click > change mode.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#11 - 2014-11-02 01:15:14 UTC
Anja Suorsa wrote:
The advantage comes from being able to choose which mode is most useful to you at any given time.

A crude example:

Assume the destroyer we're talking about is a glorified Hawk. It has bonuses to Rocket and Light Missile max velocity and rate of fire with an extra bonus for kinetic damage. In addition, it has its famous bonus to shield boost amount. However you fit this ship, LML kite or Rocket brawling, the slot layout and fitting stats remain fixed, so you have to decide what you want it to do to get the most out of it. The difference between a Hawk and this destroyer comes around with those same bonuses. I can choose to switch the Shield boost bonus for a bonus to max velocity. The fit remains the same, but I now move faster at the cost of reduced shield boosting. Once i've caught the guy, I can switch back if I feel the shield boosting bonus is more beneficial, or stick with the speed if I need to dictate range more.

Thats the basic premise. There isn't going to be any huge change in the ship when you flick between modes. You'll pick your fit for the job and fly with it. The mode switches are for buffs to stats that are beneficial to you as the pilot, as and when you choose to activate them.

I think perhaps you might be reading into it too much and I honestly mean no offense by that.


This makes sense to me. I only hope CCP understands it that way as well.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-11-03 07:37:15 UTC
Fozzie said they'll probably implement 'buttons' that you can place in any of the 24 'UI module slots' at the right-hand side of your capacitor. Source: TMC Vegas interview, iirc.

Regarding fitting, the whole point of 'tactical' T3s, from my understanding, is to give players the opportunity to shake up the current 'min/maxing' meta of ship fitting. So yes, instead of fitting to do one job very well we'll have the possibility to fit to do 2 things decently.

Whether or not 2 decent roles is better or worse than 1 good role will be seen. I expect that, as always, there will be things that work really well, things that work sometimes, and the usual terrible fits that never work. Lol

Take the current sniper corms, for example.

Usual tactics with sniper corms is:

1. You try to start the fight at range
2. The baddies come and you blap them from 100 km
3. The baddies try to counter you by damping, tracking disrupting and closing range
4. When the baddies get close enough, you either warp out or you're dead

With a T3 sniper corm, you could do:

4a. When the baddies start closing range, you switch from snipe mode to speed mode to buy some time before getting pointed/scrammed

or

4b. When the baddies get close, you switch from snipe mode to defensive mode to try to kill them before they kill you


Just an example, we'll see what happens and how CCP manages to balance T3 dessies. Overall, I'm pretty excited by the opportunity to try out new fits and tactics.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-11-03 16:02:43 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Fozzie said they'll probably implement 'buttons' that you can place in any of the 24 'UI module slots' at the right-hand side of your capacitor. Source: TMC Vegas interview, iirc.

Regarding fitting, the whole point of 'tactical' T3s, from my understanding, is to give players the opportunity to shake up the current 'min/maxing' meta of ship fitting. So yes, instead of fitting to do one job very well we'll have the possibility to fit to do 2 things decently.

Whether or not 2 decent roles is better or worse than 1 good role will be seen. I expect that, as always, there will be things that work really well, things that work sometimes, and the usual terrible fits that never work. Lol

Take the current sniper corms, for example.

Usual tactics with sniper corms is:

1. You try to start the fight at range
2. The baddies come and you blap them from 100 km
3. The baddies try to counter you by damping, tracking disrupting and closing range
4. When the baddies get close enough, you either warp out or you're dead

With a T3 sniper corm, you could do:

4a. When the baddies start closing range, you switch from snipe mode to speed mode to buy some time before getting pointed/scrammed

or

4b. When the baddies get close, you switch from snipe mode to defensive mode to try to kill them before they kill you


Just an example, we'll see what happens and how CCP manages to balance T3 dessies. Overall, I'm pretty excited by the opportunity to try out new fits and tactics.

For the last thing is specifically what I'm worried about; railguns are good weapon systems and all, but I'm worried that people fitting one weapon system for one role will negate the fit usability for the other two modes. Rails could work well enough for snipe or speed mode, but outside of 75s I don't see it working for a close-range fight. This is even more true with arty.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-11-03 16:43:46 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
For the last thing is specifically what I'm worried about; railguns are good weapon systems and all, but I'm worried that people fitting one weapon system for one role will negate the fit usability for the other two modes. Rails could work well enough for snipe or speed mode, but outside of 75s I don't see it working for a close-range fight. This is even more true with arty.
True that. At the end of the day, it will depend on the stats.

For example, a typical 150mm sniper corm today can lock and hit up to around 100km. However, it needs 2 sebos to lock that far.

If they make a T3 version that has farther (base) lock range in 'snipe mode', maybe we could drop a sebo and still be able to lock & hit at 90km or 100km. Then you could use the spare mid for a web.

In a gang or fleet situation, when you get into brawling range, a couple of fleet mates webbing the primary would slow him down enough for even 150mm railguns to do full damage (with antimatter)...

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#15 - 2014-11-03 19:10:01 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Fozzie said they'll probably implement 'buttons' that you can place in any of the 24 'UI module slots' at the right-hand side of your capacitor. Source: TMC Vegas interview, iirc.

Regarding fitting, the whole point of 'tactical' T3s, from my understanding, is to give players the opportunity to shake up the current 'min/maxing' meta of ship fitting. So yes, instead of fitting to do one job very well we'll have the possibility to fit to do 2 things decently.

Whether or not 2 decent roles is better or worse than 1 good role will be seen. I expect that, as always, there will be things that work really well, things that work sometimes, and the usual terrible fits that never work. Lol

Take the current sniper corms, for example.

Usual tactics with sniper corms is:

1. You try to start the fight at range
2. The baddies come and you blap them from 100 km
3. The baddies try to counter you by damping, tracking disrupting and closing range
4. When the baddies get close enough, you either warp out or you're dead

With a T3 sniper corm, you could do:

4a. When the baddies start closing range, you switch from snipe mode to speed mode to buy some time before getting pointed/scrammed

or

4b. When the baddies get close, you switch from snipe mode to defensive mode to try to kill them before they kill you


Just an example, we'll see what happens and how CCP manages to balance T3 dessies. Overall, I'm pretty excited by the opportunity to try out new fits and tactics.

For the last thing is specifically what I'm worried about; railguns are good weapon systems and all, but I'm worried that people fitting one weapon system for one role will negate the fit usability for the other two modes. Rails could work well enough for snipe or speed mode, but outside of 75s I don't see it working for a close-range fight. This is even more true with arty.


Even as a sniping ship the extra defense provided by defense mode can be great when you are the one getting shot. Speed mode is great to pull range for enemies, but if you get caught, then the extra resistance can either save you or buy your fleetmates enough time to pull range. Likewise defense mode can be useful when facing another sniping fleet.

And this is just for sniping destroyers. Closer ranged nano destroyers for solo/smallgang kiting can greatly benefit from the 3 modes. I'm really looking forward to the new destroyers and I hope that they manage to balance them well.

❤️️💛💚💙💜