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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Phoebe] Higgs Anchor Rigs

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Umino Iruka
#21 - 2014-10-29 03:57:16 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. We announced this new rig at EVE Vegas but I haven't made an official feedback thread yet, so here it is.

Short version is: we're adding a rig that slows you down quite a lot, doubles your mass and improves your agility a bit. It will also decrease warp speed as a drawback that can be reduced through the Astronautics Rigging skill.

We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.

The rig will exist in all size variations, T1 only for now. It will have similar build costs to other T1 astronautics rigs. It will fall within the Astronautics Rigging section and use that skill.

It will be limited to one fitted per ship.

Stats are:
25 Calibration
+100% Mass
-55% Inertia
-75% Max Velocity

Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).



I understand why someone would want this on a capital (a ship that barely moves as it is) but even battleships can achieve decent velocity numbers with an MWD - I just don't see where would this be used, other than capital ships - not to mention it's bad enough for capitals who want to jump to a POS with the recent changes...
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-10-29 04:01:25 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Finde learth wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.



For miner? Are you Sure ? You must be kidding.

No, he's not. Not more than two posts above you I explained why. Maybe you should read.


Or you know, the first post after the devpost lol.

Fussing around with my fitting a bit, I think I probably COULD get these on my hulks, and rorq, and still be able to tank the spawns with the hulks just fine. hulks would bounce around less, get out of position less often, and thered be less getting hung up on asteroids...
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2014-10-29 04:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Umino Iruka wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. We announced this new rig at EVE Vegas but I haven't made an official feedback thread yet, so here it is.

Short version is: we're adding a rig that slows you down quite a lot, doubles your mass and improves your agility a bit. It will also decrease warp speed as a drawback that can be reduced through the Astronautics Rigging skill.

We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.

The rig will exist in all size variations, T1 only for now. It will have similar build costs to other T1 astronautics rigs. It will fall within the Astronautics Rigging section and use that skill.

It will be limited to one fitted per ship.

Stats are:
25 Calibration
+100% Mass
-55% Inertia
-75% Max Velocity

Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).



I understand why someone would want this on a capital (a ship that barely moves as it is) but even battleships can achieve decent velocity numbers with an MWD - I just don't see where would this be used, other than capital ships - not to mention it's bad enough for capitals who want to jump to a POS with the recent changes...

Its essentially a 10% increase in agility (if a previous poster is correct). I can see plenty of highsec miners wanting to use these in defense of bumping (effectiveness not guaranteed). It also means some capitals may use these to get bumped out of position less often (orca). I'm curious to see if the effect on de-blobbing is going to be substantial or not.

Basically anyone who values agility vastly over speed.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#24 - 2014-10-29 04:32:14 UTC
WTB these for starbursting and dreadbuchet loads.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-10-29 05:03:44 UTC
Looks interesting. Where do you obtain the blueprints, is it available from the market or do you need to collect bpcs from sites?

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.
Kaldfir Gongukaslan
V.E.N. Asset Management
#26 - 2014-10-29 07:21:43 UTC
This seems sort of out-of-place for a rig. I can't think of a rig currently in the game that drastically changes a ship this way. Feels more like a high-slot in terms of how drastically it affects the behavior of the hull (seems on-par with cloaks).

I'm not a game designer and I'm not claiming it would see more/less use like that. Just feels weirdly strong for a rig.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#27 - 2014-10-29 07:23:05 UTC
Sweet...
Added to my shopping list post-phoebe!

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Scheulagh Santorine
The Math Department
#28 - 2014-10-29 08:08:45 UTC
I can see that I will want to add a section to my notes to make clear the effect on time-to-warp (Ship Motion in EVE Online).

In EVE, Mass and Inertia are interchangeable for purposes of bumping, but the increase in mass will deteriorate performance with any kind of MWD or AB modules. In a nutshell, this will make combat maneuvers ... difficult. For manual orbits, the maximum angular velocity that can be achieved when fitting this module compared to not fitting this module will be roughly half.

On the other hand, time to warp will half what it would have been without the module. (note, I did this calculation asymptotically instead of solving for the inverse of the v(t) equation.)


S. Santorine


============================== I used to shoot things. Now I do math.

S. Santorine

Writings on some formal methods in EvE-Online: EVE Math & Physics Blog
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-10-29 09:03:27 UTC
Making mining safer?
Also how about mass-reducing ('Higgs Sail') rig?

SSC Brokering Service
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-10-29 09:14:03 UTC
Is anyone able to explain, what is the net gain by using these to agility compared to a Low Friction T2 rig?
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-10-29 09:31:07 UTC
Scheulagh Santorine wrote:
I can see that I will want to add a section to my notes to make clear the effect on time-to-warp (Ship Motion in EVE Online).

In EVE, Mass and Inertia are interchangeable for purposes of bumping, but the increase in mass will deteriorate performance with any kind of MWD or AB modules. In a nutshell, this will make combat maneuvers ... difficult. For manual orbits, the maximum angular velocity that can be achieved when fitting this module compared to not fitting this module will be roughly half.

On the other hand, time to warp will half what it would have been without the module. (note, I did this calculation asymptotically instead of solving for the inverse of the v(t) equation.)


S. Santorine





You're a fat turd.

No really though I just wanted to say hi. Also, you sure about the getting into warp in half the time crap? I didn't think it'd be nearly that much faster, but that'd be sweet. Will have to hit the test server (once it is seeded...)
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-10-29 09:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Vulfen wrote:
Is anyone able to explain, what is the net gain by using these to agility compared to a Low Friction T2 rig?



Low friction nozzle joint II:
Agility increase 14%
Armor amount decrease 10% reduced to 5% @ astro rigging 5
75 Calibration

Higgs-Boson GodRig I:
Mass increase 100%

  • Significantly less speed bonus for propulsion mods
  • Less affect from being bumped
  • Less Harassment from tumblr landwhales

Net agility increase 11% (3% less)
-75% max velocity (get into warp in shorter distances, can align to warp speed at much slower speeds)
Warp speed decrease 10%, reduced to 5% @ astro rigging 5
25 Calibration

Basically, different uses. Low friction where you want agility turning, at speed, getting into warp. HBGR where you want to kill your speed and increase your mass, while still getting a faster align
Amy Farrah FowIer
SKULL AND B0NES
#33 - 2014-10-29 09:42:43 UTC
1. This wont work! "bumping" will now be more effective, because you wont get back in rage with -75% Max Velocity! (for example: you will not be bumped 60km, you will be bumped 30-40km and need the x4 time back to the asteroid)

2. This Rig will be used for WH-cycling - I am sure it will.

But bumping miners is clearly harrasment and my suggestion is the following:

Give every Exhumer/Mining Barge ect. the possibility to anhor in space. 30s time to go in "anhor mode" (you cant activate modules while anchoring your ship, you cant warp after you anchored your ship, so you have to unanchor before you will warp
out.

With this changes you cant use this rig for WH-cycle!
Samsara Nolte
Untethered
#34 - 2014-10-29 09:43:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Samsara Nolte
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. We announced this new rig at EVE Vegas but I haven't made an official feedback thread yet, so here it is.

Short version is: we're adding a rig that slows you down quite a lot, doubles your mass and improves your agility a bit. It will also decrease warp speed as a drawback that can be reduced through the Astronautics Rigging skill.

We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.

The rig will exist in all size variations, T1 only for now. It will have similar build costs to other T1 astronautics rigs. It will fall within the Astronautics Rigging section and use that skill.

It will be limited to one fitted per ship.

Stats are:
25 Calibration
+100% Mass
-55% Inertia
-75% Max Velocity

Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).


Looking at this from the perspective of a Wormhole-Resident - what i´m intrested to learn is, does this 100% mass addition stack with activated propulsion mods.

For example and 100MN Afterburner fitted and running on an Orca adds 50Million to the mass of the Orca resulting in a mass of 300Million - so with this rig fitted will an Orca with activated 100MN Afterburner have a mass of 250Million*2 +50Million = 550Million or will it be (250Million + 50Million)*2 = 600Million.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-10-29 09:49:20 UTC
Now that I'm thinking about it...

Mass is the main component when it comes to bumping efficiency, right ?

So an exhumer with an Anchor rig fitted will be more difficult to bump.

What if the bumper, instead of using a Machariel, uses a Machariel with an Anchor rig too ?

The effect is basically nullified if I'm not mistaken.

And if the bumper uses a Machariel with an anchor rig against a miner without an anchor rig...that will get funny very fast Big smile
Amy Farrah FowIer
SKULL AND B0NES
#36 - 2014-10-29 09:51:27 UTC
@SMT008

...
-75% Max Velocity (if rig is fitted)
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-10-29 10:05:27 UTC
Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
1. This wont work! "bumping" will now be more effective, because you wont get back in rage with -75% Max Velocity! (for example: you will not be bumped 60km, you will be bumped 30-40km and need the x4 time back to the asteroid)

2. This Rig will be used for WH-cycling - I am sure it will.

But bumping miners is clearly harrasment and my suggestion is the following:

Give every Exhumer/Mining Barge ect. the possibility to anhor in space. 30s time to go in "anhor mode" (you cant activate modules while anchoring your ship, you cant warp after you anchored your ship, so you have to unanchor before you will warp
out.

With this changes you cant use this rig for WH-cycle!

If the point of this is to reduce bumping then this is a much better idea than a rig. Then we just need to come up with a solution for freighter bumping. Cool

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#38 - 2014-10-29 10:06:31 UTC
First thought: Why you nerf my playstyle CCP?
Second thought: Procurer & Skiff pilots using these rigs and actually ruining their ability to be difficult to bump.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#39 - 2014-10-29 10:15:06 UTC
Nice rig Big smile

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-10-29 10:15:51 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
Now that I'm thinking about it...

Mass is the main component when it comes to bumping efficiency, right ?

So an exhumer with an Anchor rig fitted will be more difficult to bump.

What if the bumper, instead of using a Machariel, uses a Machariel with an Anchor rig too ?

The effect is basically nullified if I'm not mistaken.

And if the bumper uses a Machariel with an anchor rig against a miner without an anchor rig...that will get funny very fast Big smile


Bumping machariel would have to be mentally challenged to use the anchor rig. Sure, it increases your mass, but it cuts your velocity by 75%. So, you have double the mass, but less effect from your MWD given the higher mass, that alone, would mean the effect isn't nullified, but stack the 75% speed penalty on, and all of a sudden the mach is bumping for something like 1/5 of his original effect.