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Corax vs Talwar, a change is needed
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Doomheim
#21 - 2014-10-27 17:06:13 UTC
Phaade wrote:
The Corax is only better than the Talwar in extremely niche situations. The explosion radius bonus only helps with rage missiles, which won't ever apply to MWD frigates anyway (esp. AF's). It's also slow as hell.

This would be an outstanding point if it had an explosion radius bonus.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-10-27 19:50:32 UTC
Useless data!!!

Shooting at a Harpy.

Shooting at a Crow.

Both are with MWD running on the target and no BCU fitted. The bottom value is the speed the target reached in case my graph don't make sense.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#23 - 2014-10-27 21:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Useless data!!!

Shooting at a Harpy.

Shooting at a Crow.

Both are with MWD running on the target and no BCU fitted. The bottom value is the speed the target reached in case my graph don't make sense.


Interesting data, but it doesn't take into account the fact that very few people uses rage missiles due to the crappy range. And I'm not even mentionning the skills / fitting requirements to be able to fit these.

And if you're old enough to haveT2 light skills, that means you have enough skills to use a RLML caracal 90% of the time.

Also, I'd be curious to know the average time-to-kill (or something similar), comparing how both ships deal with ennemy fire with their respective speed and signature radius.

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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2014-10-28 02:41:52 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
if the corax is the least used destroyer, its because the others destroyers are also in a very good position.

i also see corax's used regularly and friends of mine solo in them.

edit- if you only use the 'least used of its type' and the 'most used of its type' as a way of measuring balance you will eventually homogenize everything (which is kinda whats been happening) and that sucks.



What? Why would you homogenize everything? That makes no sense. If something is massively underused compared with the other racial ships in it's class (like the old prophecy), it's because it's not balanced. It's really, really simple.

Notice how many of the ships in the Alliance Tournament were Gallente? Hmm....drones online?

The Corax is only better than the Talwar in extremely niche situations. The explosion radius bonus only helps with rage missiles, which won't ever apply to MWD frigates anyway (esp. AF's). It's also slow as hell.


phaade you never cease to amaze me with how much you misread, whine and grossly exaggerate...

i did not say everything should be homogenized, i said that if you follow the rule: 'not used as much as others = underpowered' you will eventually homogenize everything because there will always (yes always) be one ship that is not used as much as others and there will always be one ship that is used more than others.

secondly, the Corax is NOT 'massively underused'. i see it used often, zkillboard shows it used frequently even when compared to other destroyers. it looks like the least used yes, but not by a 'massive' proportion.

thirdly, there is nothing wrong or underpowered about a ship that only more useful in niche situations. This is in fact the very nature of variety. look at the hyperion. It sees very little use compared to other battleships and its applications are few, but it is in no way under powered. It is a ******* beast when used in the correct environment. Now the Corax's niche as an anti-frig artillery cannon has a much wider application than youre trying to portray. its not a tight niche at all unless youre still obsessing over 1v1's, which you should not.

finally, dont use the tournament environment for balance arguments. its obvious why this is bad practice.

chill your bean!

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Johann Rascali
The Milkmen
Sedition.
#25 - 2014-10-28 10:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Johann Rascali
With my toon's skills, a shield Corax with an Auxiliary Thrusters I rig is around 70ms slower than a 1600-plate 2-armor-rig Thorax with both under cold MWD. Swatting tackle off your friends is harder when they've left you in the dust.

Blanking signatures doesn't seem to work, so this is here.
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#26 - 2014-10-28 11:16:49 UTC
"Corax has a bonus to missile explosion velocity, which barely increases the dps on most targets given its already light missiles."


this is perfect bonus for anti-frigate role, if you know what you are doing, corax is perfectly fine
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#27 - 2014-10-28 12:53:50 UTC
per wrote:
"Corax has a bonus to missile explosion velocity, which barely increases the dps on most targets given its already light missiles."


this is perfect bonus for anti-frigate role, if you know what you are doing, corax is perfectly fine


http://eveuni.org/missiles101

I think you need to read this. I thought the corax had a sig radius bonus before. Either way I just fit a corax for greatest volley damage and best application it can get. I don't even bother fitting tank to it anymore, complete waste of money.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#28 - 2014-10-28 13:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Seremshur
I just tried fitting up the most basic corax ever.

You literally cannot fit 7x t2 LML and a micro +2x BCS without using implants or fitting mods.

WTF. That's 1/4 mid slots used.

This thing has NO fittings whatsoever. Jesus christ what a travesty.

EDIT

For comparison i plugged the same fit in to a talwar and no surprises here it can actually fit that without needing fitting rigs or implants.

WOW. BUFF THE CORAX.
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
#29 - 2014-10-28 13:19:14 UTC
just accept the fact that minmatar ships are generally better.

Everything's a game if you make it one - Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci

CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase - Frostys Virpio
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#30 - 2014-10-28 13:48:14 UTC
I don't fly a lot of destroyers, but when I have flown a Corax I have always been a little irked by just how tight the fitting is. I would love to see it with an 8th launcher, but we all know that missile ships can never be capable of dealing more deeps than a turrets (look at the Barghest) so that won't happen. I would settle for the Devs taking a closer look at the fitting on it, maybe giving it a little bit of love...
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#31 - 2014-10-28 17:07:42 UTC
it really only needs like 5 more grid and it will be fixed (from a fittings perspective).
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#32 - 2014-10-28 17:46:13 UTC
Before the LML nerf, all the Corax needed was a touch more speed, and maybe a little more scan resolution. It is painfully slow when brawling with rockets, and virtually every ship in the game (including AB brawlers) outpaces a MWD Corax. Coupled with the god awful scan resolution, you've got zero chance of locking anything in time to hold them down unless they stay close.

After Oceanus, I have almost enough time to make coffee between volleys. Definitely needs some love.
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