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I'm training for Carrier, but can fighters hit fast Assault Frigates?
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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-10-28 15:20:09 UTC
Rucia Laraan wrote:
Over time I've come to a sad realization. Expensive ships are not as good as small fast ships. Expensive battleships with over a billion isk in modules still loses easily to 2 cheap assault frigates with tackling. To me it seems like a major design issue. Battleships really have no purpose against higher ships. They can't hit the small ships but they CAN be hit by large ships. Worst of both worlds.

I'm worried I'll have the same issues with a Carrier and want to learn about it before I fully commit the time and isk. Firstly, can fighters hit fast assault frigates? Is there something I can do to make SURE they can? Because if I get tackled and killed by 3 standard-fitted cheap ships while in a Carrier, I'm not sure I'd want to keep going like that.

I get it if lots of ships are creative and organized and they kill me. I just want them to have to work harder than that haha.


this is why im staying subcap for the foreseeable future
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#42 - 2014-10-28 16:49:20 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Shocked someone im guessing lost a shiny ship to a frigateBig smile


A frigate won't be able to break the tank of a carrier.

Someone ran the numbers on what you would need to neut out a carrier recently, essentially it was 2 or 3 armageddons, or 1 Armageddon and 1 bhaalgorrn in order to break its cap and self repping power.

Yaay!!!!
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#43 - 2014-10-28 16:53:18 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Rucia Laraan wrote:
Over time I've come to a sad realization. Expensive ships are not as good as small fast ships. Expensive battleships with over a billion isk in modules still loses easily to 2 cheap assault frigates with tackling. To me it seems like a major design issue. Battleships really have no purpose against higher ships. They can't hit the small ships but they CAN be hit by large ships. Worst of both worlds.

I'm worried I'll have the same issues with a Carrier and want to learn about it before I fully commit the time and isk. Firstly, can fighters hit fast assault frigates? Is there something I can do to make SURE they can? Because if I get tackled and killed by 3 standard-fitted cheap ships while in a Carrier, I'm not sure I'd want to keep going like that.

I get it if lots of ships are creative and organized and they kill me. I just want them to have to work harder than that haha.


this is why im staying subcap for the foreseeable future


This is not a design flaw.

There is no dedicated progression (ie battleships are not inherently better than a frigate). There are options and variety.

In that sense, that battleships aren't the alpha doctrine for everything, and smaller ships matter more than large ships if you have a swarm of them, snows that there is a balance for the game.

In just about every game, a level 5 wizard loses to a level 90 wizard. There is nothing you can do about that, even if you bring 50 level 5 wizards, there is nothing. In eve, a group of frigates can destroy a battleship. Capitals and supers are another matter.

Yaay!!!!
Elusive Panda
Void Covenant
The Initiative.
#44 - 2014-10-28 17:27:46 UTC
In EvE, Bigger is not better.

You need to use the right tool for the right job. You're trying to use an ICBM to lit a match.
A destroyer will be infinitely better at killing frigates than a carrier, for a fraction of the price.

You cannot just buy the "best ship" and go out rolling everyone like you would in a full gladiator warlock vs a warlock in blues.

If you take out a carrier solo or even with a friend in a dreadnought, you WILL get tackled, dropped and killed. Then posted on reddit and laughed at. Don't be that guy.
Rucia Laraan
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2014-10-28 18:41:56 UTC
Lots of good info here. In the end I will go for the carrier just because it will be fun to have a carrier. I will plan to go out with my corp buddies though, in different sized ships. I now know how important it is to have versatility in your fleet.

I plan to use it however I can and learn as I go. I'll play it safe at first and slowly got for bigger rewards at higher risks. The first time I take out my carrier will be in dead space with the protection of my entire corporation :)

Thank you all for the info! Even those who want to feed on my inexperience in game (talking about locator agents, haha) are painting a picture for me on what I need to watch out for and how to learn to protect my ass.

I love feeling the sting of loss in games. X-COM, hardcore-mode dungeon crawlers, and other games that punish death he most are the most fun to play. It's the fact that I try to avoid the death that makes the death such a stimulating concept.

Overall, I love the design of the game. There is beauty is it's complexity. While I think there are imbalances, it is on me to adapt to them, which I suppose is what makes the game balanced in the end.

Thanks for the info, and to those who want to kill me, come get me! :)
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#46 - 2014-10-28 20:52:59 UTC
Don´t fear the Assault Frigate, fear the mighty Interceptor!

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]
Pine Marten
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-10-28 21:27:38 UTC
Rucia Laraan wrote:
Lots of good info here. In the end I will go for the carrier just because it will be fun to have a carrier. I will plan to go out with my corp buddies though, in different sized ships. I now know how important it is to have versatility in your fleet.

I plan to use it however I can and learn as I go. I'll play it safe at first and slowly got for bigger rewards at higher risks. The first time I take out my carrier will be in dead space with the protection of my entire corporation :)

Thank you all for the info! Even those who want to feed on my inexperience in game (talking about locator agents, haha) are painting a picture for me on what I need to watch out for and how to learn to protect my ass.

I love feeling the sting of loss in games. X-COM, hardcore-mode dungeon crawlers, and other games that punish death he most are the most fun to play. It's the fact that I try to avoid the death that makes the death such a stimulating concept.

Overall, I love the design of the game. There is beauty is it's complexity. While I think there are imbalances, it is on me to adapt to them, which I suppose is what makes the game balanced in the end.

Thanks for the info, and to those who want to kill me, come get me! :)


EvE does have a hardcore mode. It's called "Don't update your clone"
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#48 - 2014-10-28 21:43:50 UTC
Some interesting historical reading on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_York_(90)
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#49 - 2014-10-28 21:55:30 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Quote:
I embrace the tears. If I lose it I lose it. I want to have fun, not pay $10 a month to 'play it safe'

You have the right mentality... but you are clearly not ready. Stick to smaller ships for the time being and attach yourself to people who actually do use capitals.

After all... you don't want to end up like this guy in a mining carrier killed by ventures.

I highly doubt the OP has the game knowledge, or the friends necessary to go into a C3 wormhole, steal a Thanatos, and insurance fraud it into that quality of a lolmail. (you can't get capitals out of a C3 you see)
Rucia Laraan
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2014-10-28 22:18:56 UTC
I don't have that much knowledge, but you'd think people on the forums of a game with a slowly dying population would seek to encourage play instead of simply telling someone how little they know.

Eve is the most complex game I've ever seen. I know that I am unfamiliar with about 90% of the game's content. That's why I'm here...

It's not news that I'm a noob. I should appreciate that it probably makes some people feel better to tell me that, but it is known :)
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-10-29 01:26:50 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Rucia Laraan wrote:
Over time I've come to a sad realization. Expensive ships are not as good as small fast ships. Expensive battleships with over a billion isk in modules still loses easily to 2 cheap assault frigates with tackling. To me it seems like a major design issue. Battleships really have no purpose against higher ships. They can't hit the small ships but they CAN be hit by large ships. Worst of both worlds.

I'm worried I'll have the same issues with a Carrier and want to learn about it before I fully commit the time and isk. Firstly, can fighters hit fast assault frigates? Is there something I can do to make SURE they can? Because if I get tackled and killed by 3 standard-fitted cheap ships while in a Carrier, I'm not sure I'd want to keep going like that.

I get it if lots of ships are creative and organized and they kill me. I just want them to have to work harder than that haha.


this is why im staying subcap for the foreseeable future


This is not a design flaw.

There is no dedicated progression (ie battleships are not inherently better than a frigate). There are options and variety.

In that sense, that battleships aren't the alpha doctrine for everything, and smaller ships matter more than large ships if you have a swarm of them, snows that there is a balance for the game.

In just about every game, a level 5 wizard loses to a level 90 wizard. There is nothing you can do about that, even if you bring 50 level 5 wizards, there is nothing. In eve, a group of frigates can destroy a battleship. Capitals and supers are another matter.



TL;DR Eve is not the card game 500 it is paper scissor rock.
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