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Cloaking straight after gate cloak - Are you targetable?
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Zamm
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-10-25 03:54:42 UTC
Hi

So I went through a gate (in nul) today, all was clear on the other side. I did what I usually do and chose my destination, and hit cloak. I guess I must have been too slow/sloppy because someone targeted me and dropped a warp bubble on me.. Well, you can guess the rest.

So my question is.. If I hit my cloak as soon as the gate cloak ends.. Can this still happen? (Targeted etc).

Thanks
Z
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#2 - 2014-10-25 04:17:29 UTC
In my experience, if you're fast enough, take an action (causing you to drop gate cloak) and hit cloak within the same second, you cannot be targeted.

However...

You WILL remain visible for a second or two. This allows a skilled player to spot your location. If he is in a fast ship he will then drop a bubble, preventing you from warping, and rush towards that location in the hopes of decloaking you. Once decloaked (he needs to get within 2km) you are targetable.
Zamm
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-10-25 04:33:02 UTC
Right, I think that's what might have happened.. Either that or I was just too slow recloaking. I've heard of the warp/cloak trick.. Would this solve that problem?
Trey Kutoi
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#4 - 2014-10-25 04:36:29 UTC
Zamm wrote:
Right, I think that's what might have happened.. Either that or I was just too slow recloaking. I've heard of the warp/cloak trick.. Would this solve that problem?


the cloak/mwd trick helps, however, a lucky instalock Legion or boosted inty can still have a fair chance of locking if he's spamming the lock shortcut. Its all a gamble, but if they're not set up explicitly to catch everything, (cans and corpses scattered everywhere, HICs, Dictors, inty, remote sebo and the whole kitchen sink) they probably won't.

Of course, visit null and everything changes.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-10-25 08:27:56 UTC
Unless you're getting some unlucky lag, in my experience you will always be able to cloak before being targeted - provided you're at least 2km away from any object (excluding scan probes iirc).

Using a covops cloak or an improved cloak (+mwd) makes no difference (you're still activating a cloak immediately after dropping gate cloak).

But, as said above, you still can be de-cloaked before warping out by people rushing towards your location.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Cherri Minoa
Serendipity Technologies Inc
#6 - 2014-10-25 09:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Cherri Minoa
If everything goes smoothly - ie. you select warp then cloak quickly (<1sec), you don't get any lag, there is nothing within 2,000m to decloak you - then as far as I know the game mechanics regard you as moving from gate cloak to ship cloak instantly and you are unlockable. The brief appearance of your ship to other people and the cloaking visuals that you see are just graphic effects (although the former obviously gives away your position and allows them to attempt a decloak before you enter warp).

The problem is, things don't always go smoothly. I find a worryingly high proportion of times (maybe 1 in 10) that you hit warp, then hit cloak, and instead of your ship cloaking you get the message "Interference from the cloaking you are doing is preventing your systems from functioning at this time". I assume it is a lag effect, but it can leave you facing an angry gate camping mob with nothing but a silly grin on your face.

TL;DR
Even if you do everything right, getting off a gate cloaked is never 100% reliable - which is just the way it should be.

"If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-10-25 10:04:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Duranin
edit: nvm
Lucius Avenus
Intransigent Ore
#8 - 2014-10-27 10:53:30 UTC
Is the cloak dropping more quickly than before when using the cloak MWD tactic?


Unless I was sloppy, I was always in warp before the cloak would drop, effectively cloaking away in warp ninja-style once the cloak was visibly deactivated/dropping.


Now it's like anyone looking for me gets a glimpse of me twice, once when breaking cloak when having jumped into a system, (which was always the case) but now twice, because the cloak is mostly or even completely dropped before my ship is moving at any warp velocity.


Also, I have noticed that if I align/MWD/cloak the gate cloak drops immediately, where if I align/MWD the cloak drops gradually. Cloaking when breaking cloak drops cloak immediately. Was it always like this?


I just started noticing I was hanging uncloaked, and still not in warp, when once deactivating the cloak and hitting jump. So I experimented on a 30 gate run, and it looks useless now... just graphical?


Is anyone still getting away with this tactic? or getting caught cos the cloak (just before warp) drops too quickly?

There's always a chance of being caught, (just in case anyone would think I were unaware) but I don't wanna get caught "every time".
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#9 - 2014-10-27 12:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Lucius Avenus wrote:
Is the cloak dropping more quickly than before when using the cloak MWD tactic?


Unless I was sloppy, I was always in warp before the cloak would drop, effectively cloaking away in warp ninja-style once the cloak was visibly deactivated/dropping.


Now it's like anyone looking for me gets a glimpse of me twice, once when breaking cloak when having jumped into a system, (which was always the case) but now twice, because the cloak is mostly or even completely dropped before my ship is moving at any warp velocity.


Also, I have noticed that if I align/MWD/cloak the gate cloak drops immediately, where if I align/MWD the cloak drops gradually. Cloaking when breaking cloak drops cloak immediately. Was it always like this?


I just started noticing I was hanging uncloaked, and still not in warp, when once deactivating the cloak and hitting jump. So I experimented on a 30 gate run, and it looks useless now... just graphical?


Is anyone still getting away with this tactic? or getting caught cos the cloak (just before warp) drops too quickly?

There's always a chance of being caught, (just in case anyone would think I were unaware) but I don't wanna get caught "every time".


- unless you use a covert cloak you can't warp while cloaked so "I was in warp before cloak dropped" is impossible.

- "because the cloak is mostly or even completely dropped before my ship is moving at any warp velocity". Cloak only drops if you disable it.

- "Also, I have noticed that if I align/MWD/cloak the gate cloak drops immediately, where if I align/MWD the cloak drops gradually. Cloaking when breaking cloak drops cloak immediately. Was it always like this?" This is not factual nor in any way explained by anything other than "you did it wrong or you saw it wrong" :)


I get the distinct feeling that you're doing it the wrong way. It seems as if you align, cloak up, MWD and then disable the cloak while still MWDing. Don't do that. You need to watch the MWD cycle and when that ends THEN you decloak while mashing the warp button.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-10-27 13:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Gregor Parud wrote:
...MWD and then disable the cloak while still being cloaked. Don't do that. You need to watch the MWD cycle and when that ends THEN you decloak while mashing the warp button.

I think you meant "disable the cloak while still MWDing" ? As further elaborated by the next sentences. Just in case a new player found that confusing.

Reason being you need your "max" speed to drop back down below your current speed so that you can warp instantly.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#11 - 2014-10-27 13:36:35 UTC
Cherri Minoa wrote:
If everything goes smoothly - ie. you select warp then cloak quickly (<1sec), you don't get any lag, there is nothing within 2,000m to decloak you - then as far as I know the game mechanics regard you as moving from gate cloak to ship cloak instantly and you are unlockable. The brief appearance of your ship to other people and the cloaking visuals that you see are just graphic effects (although the former obviously gives away your position and allows them to attempt a decloak before you enter warp).

The problem is, things don't always go smoothly. I find a worryingly high proportion of times (maybe 1 in 10) that you hit warp, then hit cloak, and instead of your ship cloaking you get the message "Interference from the cloaking you are doing is preventing your systems from functioning at this time". I assume it is a lag effect, but it can leave you facing an angry gate camping mob with nothing but a silly grin on your face.

TL;DR
Even if you do everything right, getting off a gate cloaked is never 100% reliable - which is just the way it should be.


I dont think that is entirely correct - as i understand it the game works on server ticks. If you hit warp and cloak quickly and everything works - you get that at one sever tick - but an insta locker can also be made to work fast enough to lock at one server tick - so since both events happen as fast as the game can function it becomes a toss up as to which one works.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#12 - 2014-10-27 14:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Cara Forelli wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
...MWD and then disable the cloak while still being cloaked. Don't do that. You need to watch the MWD cycle and when that ends THEN you decloak while mashing the warp button.

I think you meant "disable the cloak while still MWDing" ? As further elaborated by the next sentences. Just in case a new player found that confusing.

Reason being you need your "max" speed to drop back down below your current speed so that you can warp instantly.



Ah yeah, woops.
Lucius Avenus
Intransigent Ore
#13 - 2014-10-28 00:01:58 UTC
Thanks for responding and yeh, cloak only drops if we disable it... and yes I do not mean a covert ops cloak

Hmmm,..

The time it takes while decloaking, the animation that plays, is what I mean by dropping cloak, as opposed to actually deactivating the cloaking module. Sorry if I were not clear enough about that.

Deactivating the cloak leads to the decloaking animation, dropping cloak, which takes a little time to drop before the ship is fully revealed.

Before, I could deactivate the cloak, hit jump, and be in warp before the cloak animation dropped. Now I can't.

It was always the case, (if I weren't sloppy about it) that I would be in warp before the cloak dropped, effectively, revealing myself briefly only when aligning.

Now the ship is often completely revealed a full second before hitting warp, (when I am at speed enough to warp) and the ship is revealed twice, (once when aligning and now just before actually being in warp) it would seem, so I appear to be lockable, going by the look of things.

Even a sloppy job could lead a camp at a gate seeing me twice, but I would already be in the first second of warp and unlockable at the second sighting.

Maybe lag, n idk
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#14 - 2014-10-28 11:44:30 UTC
Lucius Avenus wrote:
Before, I could deactivate the cloak, hit jump, and be in warp before the cloak animation dropped. Now I can't.

Irrelevant eye candy. Cloaking is a hard toggle in terms of mechanics. See how the icon of your cloak flashes green as long as it is activated? It will be green during the whole animation. Look at your module, the transition effect is purely visual.
Steve Wingyip
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-10-29 16:32:05 UTC
I had an experience begin chased once and I tried to cloak after the gate and the pursuer jumped through the gate and landed right on top of me getting me killed as I could not cloak. I actually have this event on video if you would like to watch. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPFiTOHrJ8Y&list=UUN51U2fO7QltB10tK5D5jGw
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-10-29 16:44:52 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Cherri Minoa wrote:
If everything goes smoothly - ie. you select warp then cloak quickly (<1sec), you don't get any lag, there is nothing within 2,000m to decloak you - then as far as I know the game mechanics regard you as moving from gate cloak to ship cloak instantly and you are unlockable. The brief appearance of your ship to other people and the cloaking visuals that you see are just graphic effects (although the former obviously gives away your position and allows them to attempt a decloak before you enter warp).

The problem is, things don't always go smoothly. I find a worryingly high proportion of times (maybe 1 in 10) that you hit warp, then hit cloak, and instead of your ship cloaking you get the message "Interference from the cloaking you are doing is preventing your systems from functioning at this time". I assume it is a lag effect, but it can leave you facing an angry gate camping mob with nothing but a silly grin on your face.

TL;DR
Even if you do everything right, getting off a gate cloaked is never 100% reliable - which is just the way it should be.


I dont think that is entirely correct - as i understand it the game works on server ticks. If you hit warp and cloak quickly and everything works - you get that at one sever tick - but an insta locker can also be made to work fast enough to lock at one server tick - so since both events happen as fast as the game can function it becomes a toss up as to which one works.

Cheri is correct. If you hit the cloak module too quickly after uncloaking, you get the lovely 'you cannot cloak because you are cloaked..' message, and have to quickly hit the cloak a second time before getting grabbed.

Some people say wait 1/2 second after starting an align/warp before attempting cloak, but I find its best to follow the below flow:

1) Start your align/warp/etc
2) Immediately hit your cloak module hotkey
3) IF("Warning you cannot cloak...") {
HIT CLOAK HOTKEY AGAIN..FAST
}

If you do NOT see the cloak warning on the first press, do NOT hit cloak a second time even though the cloak module hasn't gone green yet..you will just now DE-cloak yourself if you do.

F

Would you like to know more?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#17 - 2014-10-29 17:50:52 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

If you do NOT see the cloak warning on the first press, do NOT hit cloak a second time even though the cloak module hasn't gone green yet..you will just now DE-cloak yourself if you do.

Quoting for emphasis

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#18 - 2014-10-29 18:15:20 UTC
Lucius Avenus wrote:
the animation


The animation is entirely unimportant, you hit cloak and (assuming you could cloak) you ARE cloaked, the animation is just a graphical representation. Same for uncloaking, if you hit the cloak button again you ARE uncloaked instantly and the animation is, again, just for funkiness.
Steve Wingyip
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-10-29 19:39:47 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Lucius Avenus wrote:
the animation


The animation is entirely unimportant, you hit cloak and (assuming you could cloak) you ARE cloaked, the animation is just a graphical representation. Same for uncloaking, if you hit the cloak button again you ARE uncloaked instantly and the animation is, again, just for funkiness.


Yep, think of it from a coding standpoint.
Osiris Colt
Next Level of Leela
#20 - 2014-10-29 21:32:25 UTC
Yes, you are targetable.
When CCP introduced new cloaking effect, they (CCP), basically, decided to kill cloak + MWD trick.
Enjoy!
Big smile
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