Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Exactly. Missiles should be able to apply 100% base damage to ships within their class, period. If we want to entertain missile counters then have a ship's sensor strength or EECM modules reduce their effectiveness - which means utilizing actual slots as opposed to simply flying around.

Let's not forget that missiles aren't simply "op". There is no opportunity for critical damage and they have the longest delay for actual damage application.

I can definitely support the fixing of the explosion radius to the average of the size appropriate signature radii of unfitted hulls across the board. I also support raising explosion velocity so that missiles deal full damage to the average speed of size appropriate hulls with nav 3. This means buffer tanked hulls, one way or the other (hull tank not included) will almost always take nearly full damage, with only resists to stop it, but an AB using active tank will be the way to negate missile damage.

Not quite. at that point, shooting down a size seriously diminishes the damage done. Some things in the size class, like the stabber, will have a fairly deep natural mitigation, as they fall below the average signature radius and above the average speed. It also would mean that an AB was a rational choice if hunting missile boats, as the higher speed for the same signature would act as a fairly strong source of mitigation. It does however mean that most fits will have either signature or explosion velocity as a partial negation, not both, and this puts it at a reasonable place compared to turrets IMO. Some aspects of their ship (speed, signature) effect how your weapons hit, as well as how they pilot, just like with turrets.

As you propose, a cruiser would have to be permanently orbiting or running away, never closing in order to not be 2 volleyed by a good cruise missile boat, as they would only have resists to mitigate with, and maybe 30k ehp against your damage type if you correctly played guess their weakest resist. This would necessitate a damage nerf, hurting their use in PvE where they already get most of their application to many targets, as they are otherwise the highest damage weapon systems by a wide margin (although the vindi has the highest damage, it has substantially more effective weapons going because of the large damage bonus)

Missiles travel a fine line between over and under powered.

They can apply full damage against the right target, moving at the right speed. Can use any damage type and missile launchers are not effected by its own speed or facing direction, unlike turrets. This makes them very powerful.

However usually the enemy is not the right size, speed and you don't have the correct damage types. Missiles are also delayed damage.

There is no guarantee that the missile is going to be right one for the job. But when it is, it will perform beautifully.

Missiles as a whole are fine, it's heavy (perhaps arguably torps) that are the problem children.

That is not what I said at all, please don't misquote me. I said they should do full damage to an UNFITTED hull.
Once fittings & links come into account damage should be mitigatable.

There is a strong logic to designing missile systems such that the Explosion Radius of a missile size is equal to the average/base Signature Radius of the target class and then balancing damage etc from there. However there is a logistical aspect to take into account, since this isn't just a rebalancing tweak, but a pattern redesign due to needing to tweak a host of other factors to account for increased application by currently functional missiles.

The big problem with missile mechanics (not, per se, missiles) is the damage delay. It's a very distinct disadvantage - just look at how favoured the synchronised alpha offered by assigned sentries was, consider that missiles are the opposite end of that scale to mounted guns. However it's not a disadvantage very friendly to numbers being crunched, the smaller scale the engagement the less it matters, and there your opponent's raw speed being a factor rather than traversal velocity becomes more and more of an advantage.

They also sit in an odd place because they have a high volley damage, but that alpha doesn't scale even slightly because of the delayed damage effect staggering application. There's also the significant range advantage of short ranged missiles over short ranged guns as a confounding factor. It might well be worth significantly lowering their alpha and like increasing their ROF (and reducing the size of missiles themselves) in order to make them a "pressure" weapon. If this was done, the increase in application by matching Explosion Radii with Sig Radii would hopefully counterbalance the reduced alpha. Maybe apply that change to one range of missiles and keep the other frontloaded.

Hence I said Caldari ships need to gimp their fitting in a way that no turret ship has to do.

Okay the Naga does have to"pay" for out of normal grid range with tank and mobility but shooting a ship at 280km is an extreme case and she is a turret boat and will hurt anything immediately.

Looking at the case of a HAM Drake, which would look strong on paper, we would also have to look at the ship itself. Being a Drake she isn't the fastest of the former "tier 2" battlcruisers and 20km range is hardly scary.

Heavy assault missles are paying raw damage for faster cycle time but in the current kiting meta of linked everything and even not, those will also suffer from being made fun of since they will stop doing any damage after the flight time is run out.

My thread in the assembly hall (of injustice) was shot down by some random noobs who accused me either of substance abuse, being sold and no longer myself and stupid.

If I may point everyone still in doubt at the Caral and the Cerberus roaming about on TQ as we speak. Those two are the best examples of would it would look like of missiles without "tracking".

You may come and tell me something about "only being 93%" but let us imagine for a moment that it would indeed be 100%.

Though those too ships are strong with light or standard missiles, we do not have the end of the world.

EVE is still here.

Fedo: ..uuurgh uuuurgh..

come back after a few days and the first page is almost nothing but re-posts did the forum update break the search function or something?

Nah,
but you should have noticed that whenever someone responds into a thread it lands on the "front page" once again.

In this case I don't mind the attention to the thread, maybe someone with a blue tag reads it.

Well, whom am I kidding??

Of course they read it and I didn't get a gag order yet and as to CCP Fozzies wishes I even explained in detail how this will not brake EVE just the minds of the missile haters.

Haters gonna hate, no matter what.

Our blue tagged readers seek the shadows of the Vale of the Silent and find it rather enteraining or freightening or both, we will never know.

At least I have some of you convinced that the matter has some merrit, so thank you for your support! I appreciate it