Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Tech 3 cruisers were originally meant to be modular "jack of all trades" type ships able to refit and change their role on the fly but would be unable to match T2 ships in their specific role. Currently, they are more "build-a-bear" FOTM type ships that you can customize to a specific role and some of them can be even better than their T2 counterparts. I've detailed a method that I think would adequately resolve these issues and fit the T3 ships into their desired place in EVE.

1. Remove SP loss and make the ships/subs cheaper to build

the main excuse people use for leaving these ships so overpowered is their cost. if they were cheaper SP-wise and money-wise, then perhaps they could be balanced without a major community backlash

2. remove rig slots

the reason these ships can't simply be refit on the fly is rigs which have to be destroyed and replaced everytime you change roles.

removing rig slots would eliminate this issue and also limit the FoTM nature of these ships

3. remove T2 resists

some of the T3 ships can have insane tanks, nearly surpassing that of battleships while remaining fast and nimble.

removing the T2 resists from the base subs would limit this

4. Move logistics bonuses from the defense subsystem to the offense subsystem to replace the lesser used offense sub

every T3 ship has an offensive sub that's rarely ever used. moving the logistics bonuses from defense to this sub would allow the ship to fit better into a logistics role while still being less powerful than T2 logis. This would also allow each ship to have a buffer, rep, and resist sub for their race's tanking method, and an alternate defense sub

5. remove the interdiction nullifier sub

the interdiction nullifier is unique to T3 ships, making them the only ships that if fit with warp stabs, could potentially get past any gate camp

6. balance between T3 ships

some subs rarely ever get used because they're so underpowered and some are seen on every ship because they're so overpowered.

The T3 subs need to be balanced against eachother so that each sub has it's place in a specific ship role

Bottom line: we need to get these ships balanced before we even think about adding T3 ships of other sizes

i support most of these, but none of them are new ideas...

if the T3 dessies work well we may be able to completely redesign T3 cruisers in the same way and all of this wont be necessary.

oooh, new idea: special bay just for a mobile depot on new T3's, because its going to be pretty mandatory to carry one lol.

1. i agree on the SP loss, but a lot of people want to keep the skill lose to justify the insane tanks. i cant say anything about making them cheaper think about all the people making their isk with T3 subs and hulls.
2. i don't know if i want this, besides you can use certain rigs in multiple roles
3. the tank needs to be nerfed not sure if this is the best way to do it.
4. no
5. no
6. yeah but this is easier said then done

i would like to see that the T3 cruisers are good and versatile ships but not overshadowing multiple T2 ships in almost every way possible.

1. no
2. no (having rigs gives so many interesting possibilities - some changes to how rigs work with T3 wouldn't go amiss though. (they are also a big sink for T2 rigs though that is something that could be adjusted)
3. no (I do agree though that configurations that allow for insane tanks should not be able to remain fast and nimble)
4. maybe (things like tactical targeting network could be reused to support some tweaks to stuff like that)
5. no
6. yes

(All of this has been brought up a dozen times before).

nice post and i agree 100% so i gave a +1 and its always the same all the people that only fly T3 ships (for obvious reason why fly HAC when a T3 is way better etc etc) and always they try to protect it with we need more tank or else we die and lose SPs and if we say fine we get rid of that penalty its no good either because they know they need that to claim it needs to be as it is (some even ask for buffs )

nothing new here , this thread is a rehash of many other threads, that being said i'll offer some thoughts just incase fozzie or rise bother too read it and have forgotten what needs changing :

- T1 resists are a must .. 300k ehp proteus with 900 dps and 150 sig is just insane
- remove rigs for sure .. otherwise the T3 generalization/versatility concept is pointless
- cheaper subs are a must - otherwise no versatility will be possible - who wants too pay 300 -400 mil for spare subs too swap around?

- make subs bonus only - this would simplify many issues with sub swapping quickly and knowing the result without having too use out of game fitting tools .. which is a fail in itself that you have too go out of game to do something in game accurately

- interdiction nullifier is quite powerful on an inty nevermind a cloaky T3 .. perhaps its time too remove it, or if you solve the other issues perhaps it could be balanced ..

- also on skills .. its T3 not T2 so lv5's shouldn't be necessary especially as lv5 cruiser doesn't add a bonus
-remove SP loss mechanic .. i suspect its purpose was too limit there use .. but its a stupid mechanic that achieves nothing in reality.

You would hope they'd be nerfed to a point where removing the SP loss would be justifiable. It's a stupid, stupid way of trying to balance something.

i think only 2 things really need to be done to balance t3.

1. their tank. it's simply out of control. something must change.

2. do something about the cloaky/nullified versions. definitely remove the agility bonus on the nullifier sub. it really shouldn't be possible to achieve a 4 sec align time with that setup. the way server ticks work its nearly impossible for a frigate sitting on the gate to burn for a de-cloak before they are in warp. if you make your ship too fast you can overshoot them and according to the server never be within 2km of them for a de-cloak if the ticks line up just right. it requires a great deal of luck using this method, imo too much luck.

if the align time was just increased by one second to 5 seconds it would at least be possible. currently the only way to have a good chance of catching them is to set up hundreds of cans around the gate and have him spawn on one. this creates lag tho and ccp dosent like it much.

but of coarse if ccp wants there to be incredibly hard to catch ships that basicly makes the opposing pilots skill/fit irrelevent, or forces him/her to rely on luck or create lag then i guess it dosent need to change.

maybe im stupid for thinking everything in this game should have a counter, even if that counter is to have 30-40 people spread around a gate dropping cans to catch one person, i would be ok with that really, but the lag it creates is bad so i dont know if that is a real counter...

for the record afk cloaking is the one exception, i have yet to read/hear anyone come up with a legitimate counter to that and until i do i accept it being in game.

its very hard to balance things in this game, ive said before and i say again i really wouldn't want to be in ccp's shoes. even tho its just a (rather serious)game. really do you have to fly a lot of t3s to realize their tanks are a bit much? 200k ehp is very easy to achieve, all while maintaining a cruiser size signature...

also im pretty sure i remember hearing ccp say they are at least thinking about making the rigs on a t3 be swappable. that would be a cool change.

i agree, it should be a well thought out decision, and having a penalty of adding sig/mass to that subsystem that increases raw hp sounds like a good idea.