EVE General Discussion

Agreed, gankers risk is capped at ship + pod. Which is why the game design should reflect that fact, and limit their reward accordingly. If your risk is 5 million isk, why should your reward potentially be hundreds of millions of isk? OP glass cannon gank ships are fundamentally breaking the risk-reward at the heart of Eve. Just check out the CODE Uedama ganks in risk/reward terms.....10 billion isk drops from gankalysts.

I agree that ganking and criminal activity are very much part of the fabric of highsec. What I disagree on is CONCORD treatment of players who do literally nothing except for suicide ganking. No PvE activities at all, nothing that would make them curry any kind of favor in the eyes of CONCORD and explain the kid gloves treatment, just ganking all day, every day. To me that screams out for a fix. I have no problem with people who do criminal activity as part of a broad spectrum of Eve activities, and understand why CONCORD wouldn't come down hard on them. I see no justification in the game design for career criminals to escape real punishment. So yes, ganking is fine, but gankers, meaning those who do nothing at all except for gank, were never an essential part of the fabric of the game.

Check the killboard of CODE. There are tens of dedicated gank alts who do virtually nothing but gank, gank, gank. The use of alts is another issues - gankers should feel the consequences of their actions across all their characters, not be able to confine it to the gank alt.

Isn't "driving player vs. player conflict in a PvP game" enough? To have good guys you need bad guys so why shouldn't there be career criminals in highsec? The game punishes criminal behaviour, but more telling, the game design makes career criminals immune from the protections of highsec and thus enables other players to provide punishment if they so desire.

Suicide gankers, whether they be part-time or full-time, are indeed an essential part of the game. Without them there is no risk at all in highsec (outside of wardecs which NPC corp players, actually all players really, are immune to) which would not only have profound effects on the economy, but would make the game far less interesting as everyone would fit for yield/cargo and AFK their way to riches.

The only point you have made at all in this thread that may have some validity is the problem of new players getting caught by gankers before they have learned how to protect themselves. This problem is made worse by the absurdly low amount of risk in modern highsec - a player may not even encounter highsec PvP until late in their Eve career while flying a too-expensive ship and then rage-quit. Since Eve is a complex game, a bright-eyed newbie may not fully understand the risks to their shiny new ship and be somewhat put off the game when it explodes when they don't even get that Eve has fully open world PvP. Personally, I think the best way for them to learn is by being exploded several times while they are flying ships that are easily replaced like Ventures or T1 haulers, but I would support an initiative to help educate new players about the risks of operating in highsec and what they can do to protect themselves, either through a more developed tutorial or better integration into competent highsec corps after starting the game.

no u cant really stop them i suppose. but you can steal thier ill gotten gains. by killing whatever hauler picks up loot for them. he will go suspect when he picks up the loot so just bring a few nados and hes dead. if that fails just align blow up the wreck they want to loot and warp...

see. seems like the carebears give up when the going gets tough....

First off, why would i bother to read your huge amount of whine posts? Two is enough to realise that you do not grab the concept of what Eve online is about. The whole game, including highsec, is meant to be lawless and dystopian.

Second, with even the most basic understanding of high sec mechanics, you would realise that a -10 cannot participate in RvB. I'm there because i have alot of old friends, enjoy the banter and like to help new players with fits and isk. Yes, you read that right.....NEW PLAYERS, the very people that you state are being driven out of the game.

Third, and most importantly, players that spend one day in RvB are more elite than you. They are up for a fight without concord jamming their target for instance, something that is beyond your capabilities.

You state that you "do a tremendous amount of highsec PvE". There are countless other space mmo's that allow you to do that activity while having your hand held. It's your fault that you chose the wrong game to play.

It's also your fault that you are not well versed in ganking mechanics to have any idea how to stop them, the old eve slogan adapt or die comes to mind.

They are stoppable, you chose to fight them with words rather than guns.

IIRC shooting a wreck that doesn't belong to you incurs a Concord response, it's treated the same as a ship; people like Veers won't risk that.

Besides it involves some effort.

You want to know what Eve's major problem is.. its age.

Think about it.. Eve is what 11, 12 years old now

How many MMO's exist now that were released at the same time Eve was and how many of them have the same subscription numbers as they did a few years ago.

I am going to guess none do.

this gives me an idea.

why not make it so that containers that were produced as a result of illegal destrcution of another ship should be free for all?

allowing anyone to grab/destroy the loot?

this might deter gankers, but honsetly i think people should defend themselves for chrissakes

edit - oh nevemrind this wqould prolly make ganking even easier i guess...

second edit - you can shoot the wreck if your in fleet according to the wiki entry

"When taking is not stealing

If you do not own a loot or jettison container, you may still have an implicit right to take from it. However, this is only if the owner of the container:

Has given you a personal standing of 10
Is in the same player corporation as you
Is in the same gang as you (and is located in the same solar system as you)."

poeple will always target you if u make urself an easy target just saying.