Intergalactic Summit

I've watched your communications for the past couple of weeks with curiosity and have an observation to make. You seem to be very good at shouting loudly, often in inappropriate venues, to get yourself heard. Yet nothing of value ever gets said. It's a shame really. If you put half as much effort into doing something worthwhile, I daresay you'd be extremely good at it.

I've looked into this claim and it's objectively false. The Caldari people seceded through violent uprising. The Caldari and no one else. Voicing discontent and seeking change is part of the democratic process, a process that the other chartered members of the Federation have practiced time and again and are encouraged to continue doing so.

The rest of your post is filled with grandiose assumptions and contradictions to yourself.

I am sorry, Mademoiselle Kim, I had hoped we could communicate on a reasonable level. Apparently I was mistaken.

The Federation must be destroyed, Mr. Antolliere,

Have you never heard the story about five thousand Intaki? Or that after the destruction of Heuromont local states inside Federation were building their own militias to counter federals? That protests were erupting daily in cities?...

Looks like the Federation tries to hide their crimes, that were well known in the history. We had these in textbooks. You can still find it in chronicles from that era... but that attempt of gallenteans to not teach their citizens about its own history, just because it is "inconvenient" and contradicts gallente propaganda, is really disturbing.

And this is another reason, why the Federation must be destroyed.

As part of my earlier observation, I don't think there is any point in discussing the topic as you will simply drown out dissenting opinion with waves of 'The Federation must be destroyed'. What's the point? I will make no ground with you because you have decided (rightly or wrongly) that I am not worth listening to because I so happened to be born in the Federation.

What do I believe, what are my goals, who are the people I value? What do you care? I'm Gallente and the Federation must be destroyed. That's the sum of your arguments. It's small wonder so many have given up on you entirely including a great many Caldari, the people who should be closest to you. I've been lurking around here for a matter of weeks and I'm ready to throw in the towel already.

This thread is a poor attempt to flamebait Federal citizens into another war of words where the paragraphs will blot out the stars through, frankly, ridiculous grandstanding and rhetoric. That is why I won't take it seriously and why I recommend no-one else does either.

And it's JP. Just JP.

Since I brought it up in the wrong thread,

1). You interjected "to basically exert their influence over the Caldari" which is an assumption and opinion, not a fact. The fact is that both the Caldari and the Gallente benefited from cooperation, including the construction of the first star gates between them, strengthened economies and a more stable home system for both peoples.

2). The Federation was founded and the Caldari were "forced" by circumstance, meaning that they were not in a position to refuse membership because they had become dependent on the joint cooperation between both peoples. I should also note here that the Gallente were benefiting just as much from the Caldari because both of our peoples benefited by our cooperation - history itself attests to that. Had the Caldari chosen to opt out of the founding of the Federation, who knows what history would have recorded?

3). Indeed they were, without the knowledge of the Gallente. Which, by the way, was the first of many pieces moved on this board of galactic history that led to a downward spiral between our people.

4 and 5). Let us not gloss over these points so quickly because this is where the sticking points are. The reason for the investigation was simple economics and math. The use of the "stock exchange" and economics in the collapse of Shield Aerospace revealed that the companies involved in the takeover had an excess of capital they could not have obtained legally (because the extra capital was being obtained via colonies that were unknown to the government at the time). Naturally this excess of capital would cause some questions to be raised.

6). Read over these points carefully and impartially. The first action of deception was made by the Caldari with their secret colonies and a takeover of other businesses using illegally obtained capital, this was followed by an investigation. When the illegal colonies were found, naturally the Federation demanded they fall under the same Federal jurisdiction that everyone else was operating under. The Caldari Megacorps refused and seceded. The Federation, seeking non-violent resolution, attempts other methods of resolving the conflict. The situation escalates from there eventually resulting in the bombing of a Gallente city.

The rest of your points are basically historical reiteration except the final point but that's another debate for another time.

In summary, your assessment was filled with bias and interjection rather than simple fact and you glossed over the sticking points that would place any responsibility on the part of the Caldari. This discredits your assertion that it was Gallente greed and fear and further that we need to be destroyed.

This inferior unit has a theoretical question.

Priority: Battle Simulation

Situation: The Federation Is Destroyed.

Time Window: The Federation Is Destroyed within YC 117-122

Your plans for the next five years after the Federation is destroyed, soldier?

Mademoiselle Kim,

I did refute your assertion but you attempted to turn it into a discussion about Gallente text book studies in our schools and color it as some sort of propaganda by the government. I know full well the examples you raised but they don't change the facts of what happened.

Yes, there were uprisings and yes there were militias gathered to oppose the Federation but what happened? Concessions were made, agreements were reached and those uprisings were settled. The proof is tangible: the Federation still exists. If the various peoples of the Federation had set themselves against the Federation as you're suggesting they did, the Federation would have crumbled. Why? Because the Federal Navy and the Federal Government are composed of their constituent peoples, thus if there was a mass uprising against the government, the Federation would collapse by virtue of its design. It is a society that can only continue to exist for as long as its members wish it to. Ergo, you're simply wrong.

However, every attempt to counter your arguments results in you twisting information to suit your own agenda and I'll not waste my time playing your game.

It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with how you respond when your arguments are countered. I have nothing further to say to you.

Ah, the IGS and it's strange ability to encourage the same people to repost the same drabble every month. Let's just copy and paste the threads from pages 2-5 and save some time.


-Eran

Can we just sit and think about a few points pursuant to Msr Antolliere's spirited defence of the Federation position?

1. There had long been bad feeling caused by the Federations tendency to 'redistribute' wealth created by Caldari thrift and economy to shore up the economies of worlds comprised of Gallentean citizens - who require a higher standard of living for less economic output than their Caldari counterparts.

2. The Colonies were an attempt to create an economic zone of endeavour wherein Caldari Corporations could pursue exclusively Caldari economic and social models. The big mistake was in letting the Megacorporations spend the resources they gained in the expansion zone within the Federation economic zone - where they could be tracked.

3. The Federation response upon discovering the Caldari free-economic zone was, as always, a demand to take the assets away from the Caldari. No doubt the dangerous and uncomfortable job of homesteading this undeveloped space would be allowed to remain Caldari, but the resources themselves? These would have to be 'shared' with the Federation - a process that usually involved exchanging useless Federal 'oversight' and 'management' for valuable resources that could then be spent on Gallentean populations who had done nothing to earn them.

4. When the Caldari Megacorporations refused to participate in this sham economic 'redistribution' there were consequences. These consequences included a blockade of Caldari Prime - a blockade that was designed to use the harsh conditions of the world to force the Caldari back to the negotiating table. In essence, the wonderful Federation attempted to resolve the situation by starving Caldari citizens.

5. The Federation blockade didn't manage to cause mass starvation but it did manage to cause a breakdown of civic relations along a cultural faultline that existed between Gallentean immigrants and the native Caldari. Caldari law enforcement was ill-prepared and trained to deal with mass civil unrest and was unable to protect the Gallentean settlers as, perhaps, they should have been. Additionally the very police who were supposed to protect the Gallenteans were the ones whose children were being threatened with starvation by the Gallentean blockade. I'm sure some of them didn't do their jobs with quite the efficiency we would expect.

6. When terrorists (whose ideology and actions were specifically disavowed by the Caldari government and people) committed an atrocity, the Federation responded with collective punishment and escalated the blockade with the bombardment of the civilian population. Let's pause here for a moment to let THAT sink in, shall we? The legally voted in government of the Federation ordered the Federal Navy to fire from orbit on cities full of helpless civilians that they had previously been attempting to starve and freeze to death.

7. When the Caldari Navy, using customs patrol ships and converted freighters as warships, managed to outwit the Federal Navy sufficient to throw them into disarray the Caldari were forced into exile from their own Homeworld. During this exodus, units of the Federal Navy continued to attempt to blockade, continued to bombard civilians and even fired on escaping freighters packed with refugees.

8. Only when the criminal actions of their own Navy and Government finally caused retaliation on the same scale, by Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba, did the Federal citizens themselves tire of what was being done in their names. What followed was a couple of centuries of reasonably conventional war (except for the destruction of Malkalen station and the assassination of Otro Gariushi under a flag of peace) and the fragile but hopefully improving state of detente we find ourselves in now.