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Capsule Technology in relation to fundamental human needs

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Author
Takashi Rintarou
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-10-26 04:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Takashi Rintarou
So capsuleers are supposed to never leave their capsules or something because they might die permanently.
However, what about their fundamental human needs such as food, water, and air (water could be explained via a tube in the hydrostatic capsule, as could air, but not food.)?

Furthermore there are some chronicles I read (can't find them now tho) where the capsuleer was walking around talking to someone critically on life support.

Does this mean that they leave their capsules when in station? If so what is to prevent normal fist fights or other potentially harmful/deadly events from occurring that might permanently kill the capsuleer?

On a side note, how would this work for pilots who are graveyard'ed, or in other words buy a supercarrier or Titan and never dock again? I suppose they're big enough to hold food for entire crews for years. Oops, just answered my own question there. Does anyone know the answer to the other questions posed, though?

EDIT: I believe the chronicle I was referring to was All These Lives Fit To Ruin or something along those lines.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#2 - 2014-10-26 08:35:51 UTC
Takashi Rintarou wrote:
So capsuleers are supposed to never leave their capsules or something because they might die permanently.


They can leave their capsules just fine, and most do regularly. Just if you die outside the capsule, there's no cloning.

Quote:
However, what about their fundamental human needs such as food, water, and air (water could be explained via a tube in the hydrostatic capsule, as could air, but not food.)?


I believe capsuleers can get sustenance inside the capsule through the tubes, but most probably get out to eat and sleep at normal hours like anyone else.

Quote:
Does this mean that they leave their capsules when in station? If so what is to prevent normal fist fights or other potentially harmful/deadly events from occurring that might permanently kill the capsuleer?


By the capsuleer having some common sense and avoiding fights, like any other human being.
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2014-10-27 06:22:47 UTC
As Samira said, capsuleers are quite capable of leaving the capsule and regularly do so.

Capsuleers appear to breathe using a liquid breathing technique fed by a mask over their face; waste is most likely removed by either wearing a vacuum cup system similar to actual space toilets aboard the actual spacecraft, or via some form of catheter.

A capsuleers outside of their pod could theoretically do anything a normal human could do - including getting into a bar fight or whatever - but keep in mind that capsuleers are highly-trained, incredibly rich, and quite intelligent. They are going to know how to avoid fights, or fight unfairly if it comes to that.
CCP Falcon
#4 - 2014-10-27 13:27:27 UTC
Take a look at EVE: Source... there's some explanation there.

I'll also quote some of the stuff on the capsule from my original source document that didn't make it into EVE: Source due to space related editing restrictions:

Quote:
Within the chamber, the Capsuleer is immersed in the amber colored low viscosity, breathable suspension solution, also pressurized at atmospheric standard. The Capsuleer's lungs are flooded with this fluid on immersion, allowing the pilot to liquid breathe for the duration of their flight with the solution's bio-nanite rich composition acting as a carbon dioxide scrubber.

The liquid suspension helps in further cushioning them from the rigors of faster than light travel and external impact, stabilizing lung and body pressure in space, as well as being rich in nutrients and anti-bacterial nanite compounds that assist in maintaining hygiene and a sterile environment for the pilot.


Quote:
Hydrostatic Fluid :

Usually known to Capsuleers by its affectionate name of “pod goo”, the hydrostatic fluid used in Capsules is a complex and perfectly balanced self-sustaining ecosystem that supports, nourishes and maintains the Capsuleer's physical health while he or she is immersed.

To give it its full name, we would technically call the liquid an oxygen rich, nano-saturated breathable glucose based suspension solution.

The entire solution is formed around a base of common carbohydrate Glucose with various nutrients, vitamins and minerals amalgamated into the base compound along with several variations of bio-nanites that assist with life support.

For purposes of liquid respiration, the solution remains oxygen rich, with an infusion of nano-technology designed to absorb carbon dioxide from the Capsuleer's lungs, and break it into component parts before releasing paired oxygen molecules back into the fluid.

During normal flight, the hydrostatic fluid is circulated within the Capsule and drawn out through the attached vessel's life support system where the fluid is carbon scrubbed to prevent lethal build up.

Coupled with respiration, the fluid provides the base nutrients and vitamins required to sustain the Capsuleer for extended periods of time in flight.


Quote:
Operating under its own power, the Capsule will provide approximately 90 days of life support for the pilot, before the solution and the nanites within become saturated with carbon and are unable to further process carbon dioxide. At this point, the Neural Interface Life Support will trigger the TEBS, euthanizing the pilot and returning them to their chosen cloning facility.


The last quote is consistent with current game mechanics, where after 90 days in space and not being logged in, your character is automatically returned to your home station.

There's also a lot more relating to the capsule that I've written, just haven't had the chance to update the wiki Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#5 - 2014-10-27 14:57:57 UTC
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
- but keep in mind that capsuleers are highly-trained, incredibly rich, and quite intelligent.


According to my experience, at least one point regularly falls short of the expectations.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-10-27 17:51:56 UTC
Takashi Rintarou wrote:
So capsuleers are supposed to never leave their capsules or something because they might die permanently.
However, what about their fundamental human needs such as food, water, and air (water could be explained via a tube in the hydrostatic capsule, as could air, but not food.)?

Furthermore there are some chronicles I read (can't find them now tho) where the capsuleer was walking around talking to someone critically on life support.

Does this mean that they leave their capsules when in station? If so what is to prevent normal fist fights or other potentially harmful/deadly events from occurring that might permanently kill the capsuleer?

On a side note, how would this work for pilots who are graveyard'ed, or in other words buy a supercarrier or Titan and never dock again? I suppose they're big enough to hold food for entire crews for years. Oops, just answered my own question there. Does anyone know the answer to the other questions posed, though?

EDIT: I believe the chronicle I was referring to was All These Lives Fit To Ruin or something along those lines.

most capsuleers dont die permanently after being killed outside the pod, because they have "soft clones", basically a backup of themselves they made earlier, so if they die, they lose all the memory of what happened since the time their clone was made, but with cameras/messaging, finding out who shot you while you were taking a crap just requires a glance at your PDA
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#7 - 2014-10-28 00:24:47 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Take a look at EVE: Source... there's some explanation there.

I'll also quote some of the stuff on the capsule from my original source document that didn't make it into EVE: Source due to space related editing restrictions:

[...]

Since it's something else that comes up frequently, what's the deal on garments worn by capsuleers in the capsule itself? Just underwear (the boring grey shorts/panties/bra shown in the character creator, and iirc on frozen corpse objects), or are "podsuits" a thing?

CCP Falcon wrote:
The last quote is consistent with current game mechanics, where after 90 days in space and not being logged in, your character is automatically returned to your home station.

Your ship gets moved too, iirc, so that bit might need some tweaking.Blink

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#8 - 2014-10-28 00:45:16 UTC
Let me tell you... there's nothing like swimming in the goo au naturel...
(that stuff gets everywhere... and I do mean everywhere...)

Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...

CCP Falcon
#9 - 2014-10-29 00:14:54 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Since it's something else that comes up frequently, what's the deal on garments worn by capsuleers in the capsule itself? Just underwear (the boring grey shorts/panties/bra shown in the character creator, and iirc on frozen corpse objects), or are "podsuits" a thing?


I don't see why podsuits wouldn't be a thing, if people preferred to wear them. So long as there were access ports for neural jack-in, and they didn't trap any air and cause potential pressure issues, then im my opinion it'd be fine really.

Morwen Lagann wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
The last quote is consistent with current game mechanics, where after 90 days in space and not being logged in, your character is automatically returned to your home station.

Your ship gets moved too, iirc, so that bit might need some tweaking.Blink


[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2738731/jedi-mind-trick-o.gif[/img]

P

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Takashi Rintarou
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-10-29 04:22:26 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Quote:
Operating under its own power, the Capsule will provide approximately 90 days of life support for the pilot, before the solution and the nanites within become saturated with carbon and are unable to further process carbon dioxide. At this point, the Neural Interface Life Support will trigger the TEBS, euthanizing the pilot and returning them to their chosen cloning facility.


The last quote is consistent with current game mechanics, where after 90 days in space and not being logged in, your character is automatically returned to your home station.


Right. But how does this apply to graveyard'ed characters, toons who will never dock again because they're in a titan/supercarrier, but still log in?
Although titans and whatnot do get destroyed in sov battles and whatnot, let's say this one survived for a reasonable time of over 9000 90 days (BBCode works here, right?)
Is this to say the pod goo is essentially renewed when one is moving around in it?

Also bar fights---people don't really think much when drunk. Not to mention other methods of injury. Do you have any lore proof behind soft clones? I thought that type of clone only 'kind of' worked on clone soldiers for deployment in planetary warfare. But I could be full of crap, I won't deny that.

Also XD got startled when you posted in my thread CCP Falcon. Most games I've played devs don't post on forums unless a player dun goofed up and broke da big book o' rules.
...But I digress.
Alexander McKeon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2014-10-29 07:14:48 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
The last quote is consistent with current game mechanics, where after 90 days in space and not being logged in, your character is automatically returned to your home station.
If that's an actual mechanic (i.e. done by the server without GM intervention) rather than a policy implemented by people, have the possible implications of unlimited skill queues allowing subbed supercapital pilots to remain logged off for a very long time been considered?

In before a flood of Aeons undock from EFA to engage in flag-waving exercises because their respective pilots got stuck in the middle of nowhere and stayed logged out after jump drive changes. P
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-10-29 07:56:05 UTC
Clothing? Who has room for clothing. My capsules are all fully equipped with the latest liquid recycling system. The entire pod is filled with a gelatinous liquid, that contains bacterial cultures that thrive in the warm enviroment. Fed on my waste products directly into the goo, the bacteria themselves consume CO2, and release oxygen, as well as being consumed for sustenance. Naturally, ships are able to filter toxins out of the goo every so often, so short of sitting in space for more than 90 days in a capsule (which does not happen), I am completely fine.

Clothing would just get in the way.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#13 - 2014-10-29 09:07:42 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Since it's something else that comes up frequently, what's the deal on garments worn by capsuleers in the capsule itself? Just underwear (the boring grey shorts/panties/bra shown in the character creator, and iirc on frozen corpse objects), or are "podsuits" a thing?


I don't see why podsuits wouldn't be a thing, if people preferred to wear them. So long as there were access ports for neural jack-in, and they didn't trap any air and cause potential pressure issues, then im my opinion it'd be fine really.

Morwen Lagann wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
The last quote is consistent with current game mechanics, where after 90 days in space and not being logged in, your character is automatically returned to your home station.

Your ship gets moved too, iirc, so that bit might need some tweaking.Blink


[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2738731/jedi-mind-trick-o.gif[/img]

P


ORLY?

So that's where all those Highsec Capitals come from... :-D
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#14 - 2014-10-29 09:37:24 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Since it's something else that comes up frequently, what's the deal on garments worn by capsuleers in the capsule itself? Just underwear (the boring grey shorts/panties/bra shown in the character creator, and iirc on frozen corpse objects), or are "podsuits" a thing?


I don't see why podsuits wouldn't be a thing, if people preferred to wear them. So long as there were access ports for neural jack-in, and they didn't trap any air and cause potential pressure issues, then im my opinion it'd be fine really.

Morwen Lagann wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
The last quote is consistent with current game mechanics, where after 90 days in space and not being logged in, your character is automatically returned to your home station.

Your ship gets moved too, iirc, so that bit might need some tweaking.Blink


[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2738731/jedi-mind-trick-o.gif[/img]

P


ORLY?

So that's where all those Highsec Capitals come from... :-D


o_O is it?

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#15 - 2014-10-29 11:10:43 UTC
Takashi Rintarou wrote:
Also bar fights---people don't really think much when drunk. Not to mention other methods of injury. Do you have any lore proof behind soft clones? I thought that type of clone only 'kind of' worked on clone soldiers for deployment in planetary warfare. But I could be full of crap, I won't deny that.


Clone soldiers aren't soft clones, though are similar. Their kind of cloning is quite a bit different from capsuleers though so not a good comparison to use here.

Hard cloning, which is what capsuleers do via the pod, means that the scan kills the person immediately when it is made and a replacement clone wakes up instantly with all memories prior to the death. Soft means a 'slow' backup scan in a lab somewhere that saves the data on file for use at a later date instead of immediately. Soft scans may or may not kill the current body in the process (this is something that lore does not clarify), but their key benefit is the saving of a backup for later use in case the capsuleer dies outside the pod (or if the pod scanner fails). EVE Source verifies the existence of backup clones, though obviously any backup clone will only have memories up until the date the backup was saved. Soft clones are not something that has any analogue in game mechanics due to us always being in pod in-game (aside from CQ).

And if a capsuleer gets into a bar fight and dies in it and don't have a backup then they die permanently. If they do have a backup then the backup wakes up. Either way, it is intentional that capsuleers are more vulnerable outside the pod. If a capsuleer is paranoid about their safety outside of the pod then one can assume that capsuleer would avoid heavy "baselining" (interacting with non-capsuleers outside the pod) and stick to just their pod and the capsuleer sections on stations. Not every capsuleer is quite so concerned about the "danger" of baselining though--afterall, we all as human beings have the potential to die permanently IRL in accidents and that doesn't stop us from going out and about.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#16 - 2014-10-29 15:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Morwen Lagann
Edward Olmops wrote:
So that's where all those Highsec Capitals come from... :-D

Some are there because people logged out in space for a long time and got moved, yes. Some have been there since the time when capitals could be manufactured in highsec and were never jumped out to lowsec or nullsec, though.

There have also been a few cases of supercapitals being docked into stations by GMs to allow the owner to purchase insurance but I don't know if that still happens.

Falcon: Your Jedi mind tricks don't work on me. P The reply is appreciated, though, thanks - those capsule gantries and things really don't look all that comfortable to be all goopy and wet and naked on, especially not the ones in the CQs. Blink

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Dradis Aulmais
Serious Non-stop Espionage and Kidnapping
#17 - 2014-10-30 19:11:18 UTC
I disagree with the fist fight analogy a capsule and station is linked via a subspace interface with the stargate system (eve: a burning life) this is what allows a capsuleer's mind to be transmitted to his new clone. when in station the capsuleer implants would be wirelessly connected to the stations subspace relay allowing transmission to a new clone. A permadeath can only be done by preventing the transmission of the mind or by killing every single clone a capsuleer has in reserve.

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three

Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2014-10-30 21:05:31 UTC
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
I disagree with the fist fight analogy a capsule and station is linked via a subspace interface with the stargate system (eve: a burning life) this is what allows a capsuleer's mind to be transmitted to his new clone. when in station the capsuleer implants would be wirelessly connected to the stations subspace relay allowing transmission to a new clone. A permadeath can only be done by preventing the transmission of the mind or by killing every single clone a capsuleer has in reserve.


This is incorrect. The neural burning rig is relatively large and bulky, and cannot easily be carried around by a single person. Furthermore, the system had a habit of either misfiring (killing the capsuleer unnecessarily), not firing when needed (causing the capsuleer to actually die permanently) or not firing completely (leaving the capsuleer a drooling vegetable). It was only with the neural burning rig being mounted inside a stable environment (i.e., the capsule) that these problems were solved.

See: The Capsule and the Clone.
Dradis Aulmais
Serious Non-stop Espionage and Kidnapping
#19 - 2014-10-31 14:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dradis Aulmais
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
I disagree with the fist fight analogy a capsule and station is linked via a subspace interface with the stargate system (eve: a burning life) this is what allows a capsuleer's mind to be transmitted to his new clone. when in station the capsuleer implants would be wirelessly connected to the stations subspace relay allowing transmission to a new clone. A permadeath can only be done by preventing the transmission of the mind or by killing every single clone a capsuleer has in reserve.


This is incorrect. The neural burning rig is relatively large and bulky, and cannot easily be carried around by a single person. Furthermore, the system had a habit of either misfiring (killing the capsuleer unnecessarily), not firing when needed (causing the capsuleer to actually die permanently) or not firing completely (leaving the capsuleer a drooling vegetable). It was only with the neural burning rig being mounted inside a stable environment (i.e., the capsule) that these problems were solved.

See: The Capsule and the Clone.


That is contradictory to eve: empyrean age early in the book the broker enters into a blast furnace and is transmited to a new clone and that was done on a planet outside a capsule.
And when CCP adds the destructible station mechanic what would happen to the capsuleer in station?

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#20 - 2014-10-31 15:13:32 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Take a look at EVE: Source... there's some explanation there.

I'll also quote some of the stuff on the capsule from my original source document that didn't make it into EVE: Source due to space related editing restrictions:

Quote:
Within the chamber, the Capsuleer is immersed in the amber colored low viscosity, breathable suspension solution, also pressurized at atmospheric standard. The Capsuleer's lungs are flooded with this fluid on immersion, allowing the pilot to liquid breathe for the duration of their flight with the solution's bio-nanite rich composition acting as a carbon dioxide scrubber.

The liquid suspension helps in further cushioning them from the rigors of faster than light travel and external impact, stabilizing lung and body pressure in space, as well as being rich in nutrients and anti-bacterial nanite compounds that assist in maintaining hygiene and a sterile environment for the pilot.


Quote:
Hydrostatic Fluid :

Usually known to Capsuleers by its affectionate name of “pod goo”, the hydrostatic fluid used in Capsules is a complex and perfectly balanced self-sustaining ecosystem that supports, nourishes and maintains the Capsuleer's physical health while he or she is immersed.

To give it its full name, we would technically call the liquid an oxygen rich, nano-saturated breathable glucose based suspension solution.

The entire solution is formed around a base of common carbohydrate Glucose with various nutrients, vitamins and minerals amalgamated into the base compound along with several variations of bio-nanites that assist with life support.

For purposes of liquid respiration, the solution remains oxygen rich, with an infusion of nano-technology designed to absorb carbon dioxide from the Capsuleer's lungs, and break it into component parts before releasing paired oxygen molecules back into the fluid.

During normal flight, the hydrostatic fluid is circulated within the Capsule and drawn out through the attached vessel's life support system where the fluid is carbon scrubbed to prevent lethal build up.

Coupled with respiration, the fluid provides the base nutrients and vitamins required to sustain the Capsuleer for extended periods of time in flight.


Quote:
Operating under its own power, the Capsule will provide approximately 90 days of life support for the pilot, before the solution and the nanites within become saturated with carbon and are unable to further process carbon dioxide. At this point, the Neural Interface Life Support will trigger the TEBS, euthanizing the pilot and returning them to their chosen cloning facility.


The last quote is consistent with current game mechanics, where after 90 days in space and not being logged in, your character is automatically returned to your home station.

There's also a lot more relating to the capsule that I've written, just haven't had the chance to update the wiki Smile


So 90 days is the endurance of the pod on its own, but, does being plugged to a ship extend it?
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