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C5 Black Hole
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Steve Ross
Protean Concept
Sedition.
#1 - 2014-10-26 13:29:08 UTC
Hey all, I found an empty C5 Black Hole, and my corporation is thinking of moving up to C5's by the next calendar year. However, I could not find any feasible info on running C5 Black Hole cap escalations post-Hyperion.

Are there any Black Hole residents here, and what kind of fits do you guys use to run the escalations? I would imagine Phoenixes and Chimeras, but maybe there is a way to use armor comps in there as well? Thank you in advance!
Steven Hackett
Overload This
Escalation Theory
#2 - 2014-10-26 14:41:04 UTC
Black Holes doesn't favor shields over armor, so running an armor fleet will be the same as running it in a no-effect wh.
You'll have to consider the nerf to webs though and compensate or work around that.

Also, while the inertia nerf isn't as bad as it was before, it's still a pain in the ass :P I would end up selfdestructing my capital if I was forced to live there. lol..
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#3 - 2014-10-26 19:26:57 UTC
2 phoenix and 2 carriers. Maybe boosts if you want. Literally all you need.

Warp in phoenix at escalation spawn. Kill sleepers. Warp in second phoenix; kill sleepers. Warp in carriers and kill sleepers. Refit stabs and warp out.

Easy peasy isk. Use mad stacks to fly shinies and kill people Big smile

Blue-Fire Best Fire
wildfire2555
The Free Luna State
Now You're Gone
#4 - 2014-10-26 19:40:43 UTC
I'd advise against using any shield doctrine on the escalations, anchor with a heavey recharge dual rep archon and use revelation as leed dread then follow with moroses. To fix the webbing issue use dual dead space tanked lokis with faction webs. Make sure you have boosts on the field and your archon pilot has T2 triage.
Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#5 - 2014-10-26 20:07:47 UTC
wildfire2555 wrote:
I'd advise against using any shield doctrine on the escalations, anchor with a heavey recharge dual rep archon and use revelation as leed dread then follow with moroses. To fix the webbing issue use dual dead space tanked lokis with faction webs. Make sure you have boosts on the field and your archon pilot has T2 triage.



I feel like this a troll, but....thats all wrong lol
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-10-27 00:48:28 UTC
Do yourself a favor and find a different system. black holes are much better than they used to be but still one of the worst for PVE.

As for the PVE stuff, your ships should be armour tanked and you should be using archons and moros' if at all possible.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
wildfire2555
The Free Luna State
Now You're Gone
#7 - 2014-10-27 03:42:39 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Do yourself a favor and find a different system. black holes are much better than they used to be but still one of the worst for PVE.

As for the PVE stuff, your ships should be armour tanked and you should be using archons and moros' if at all possible.



Agree with above, lived in a c5 black hole for about 3 months, it was possible to do it but the heavier the tank the better. We used revs over Moros for the better tank and slot layout. Moros was usually the 2nd and 3rd dred in, but always used archons. If you get jumped the archon is a more solid tank. Side note, if you get jumped with 2 caps on the field, warp the other 2 in plus pull the triggers. Any sub cap ship on the field will be alpha'd with that amount of incoming dps, or they'll primary you, 50/50 shot.
Calmatt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-10-27 05:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Calmatt
wildfire2555 wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Do yourself a favor and find a different system. black holes are much better than they used to be but still one of the worst for PVE.

As for the PVE stuff, your ships should be armour tanked and you should be using archons and moros' if at all possible.



Agree with above, lived in a c5 black hole for about 3 months, it was possible to do it but the heavier the tank the better. We used revs over Moros for the better tank and slot layout. Moros was usually the 2nd and 3rd dred in, but always used archons. If you get jumped the archon is a more solid tank. Side note, if you get jumped with 2 caps on the field, warp the other 2 in plus pull the triggers. Any sub cap ship on the field will be alpha'd with that amount of incoming dps, or they'll primary you, 50/50 shot.


You're spot on with the heavy recharge dual-rep Archon. However, Revelation is one of the worst dreads to use as a primary, especially in a black hole where webs are less effective. While the armor tank on a rev may be greater, you're on field for a MUCH longer time to take damage because the tracking is so horrible. Combine that with weaker webs and you've got inefficiency 101. And honestly, with only two waves on field I've never had trouble tanking in an armor moros, so I'm not sure how you're fitting your moros's.

Also, stop being a nub and shield tank all your dreads. If you're worried about getting jumped (and you should be), you'll need to be shield fit if you want to have a chance at killing the shield nags they'll drop on you. Your PVE fits should also be PVP fit. Do it correctly, and maybe this http://www.eve-razor.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=619522 or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK7nVB_Y4Lo will happen to you. (The video was kindof fail actually, we weren't correctly PVP fit and didn't have points for our dreads/lokis)

And obviously you have armor tank refits for your dreads in case you need reps from carriers, so there's literally no reason not to go shield tank.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-10-27 06:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Calmatt wrote:
Also, stop being a nub and shield tank all your dreads. If you're worried about getting jumped (and you should be), you'll need to be shield fit if you want to have a chance at killing the shield nags they'll drop on you. Your PVE fits should also be PVP fit. Do it correctly, and maybe this http://www.eve-razor.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=619522 or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK7nVB_Y4Lo will happen to you. (The video was kindof fail actually, we weren't correctly PVP fit and didn't have points for our dreads/lokis)

And obviously you have armor tank refits for your dreads in case you need reps from carriers, so there's literally no reason not to go shield tank.

Shield PVE dreads suck ass. the short time where I ran sites in shield ships was very painful.

as for getting jumped? sure, shield dreads are better in dread vs. dread PVP.
that said, it makes no difference unless you have more ships on standby other than your site fleet (as BITIN clearly did in the linked BR) as the attackers will always be better fit and prepared than you and you'll die anyway 95% of the time.
hell, more often than not you'll just be attacked by subcaps and armour dreads hit T3s a LOT better than shield fits.

also, people get jumped a LOT less often than people make it out to be.

PS: getting attacked mid site by random nullseccers in battlecruisers is NOT the same as 'getting jumped'

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Calmatt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-10-27 07:21:49 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Calmatt wrote:
Also, stop being a nub and shield tank all your dreads. If you're worried about getting jumped (and you should be), you'll need to be shield fit if you want to have a chance at killing the shield nags they'll drop on you. Your PVE fits should also be PVP fit. Do it correctly, and maybe this http://www.eve-razor.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=619522 or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK7nVB_Y4Lo will happen to you. (The video was kindof fail actually, we weren't correctly PVP fit and didn't have points for our dreads/lokis)

And obviously you have armor tank refits for your dreads in case you need reps from carriers, so there's literally no reason not to go shield tank.

Shield PVE dreads suck ass. the short time where I ran sites in shield ships was very painful.

as for getting jumped? sure, shield dreads are better in dread vs. dread PVP.
that said, it makes no difference unless you have more ships on standby other than your site fleet (as BITIN clearly did in the linked BR) as the attackers will always be better fit and prepared than you and you'll die anyway 95% of the time.
hell, more often than not you'll just be attacked by subcaps and armour dreads hit T3s a LOT better than shield fits.

also, people get jumped a LOT less often than people make it out to be.

PS: getting attacked mid site by random nullseccers in battlecruisers is NOT the same as 'getting jumped'
]

I've ran both doctrines and really it wasn't hard to refit for tank when your dread was primary, so you don't really lose utility as a shield dread (sebos, tracking computers), plus your lows have plenty of TE's. I'm guessing that was the part you had trouble with.

And in that BR it was actually a very significant amount of time before "backup" arrived. They were still dropping, and we still would've won. And the people die 95% of the time because they use single armor rep nags/revs, or their lokis don't have ECCM available from the carrier. Yea sometimes the HK/SSC/LZHK coalition lands with 50 t3's and unless you're dreads are split you're screwed, but that's hardly 95% of the time and you still could've taken some down with you.

BTW that was an 80 man gang in the first link. Maybe it doesn't show up since we were so well prepared they didn't get a single kill, but that still definitely counts as getting "jumped".
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-10-27 12:35:11 UTC
but guys, what is this armor cap debate? i think the OP just wanted to welp more phoenixes. this is a noble cause which i fully support, at least until ccp give the poor bricks the zelwegger facelift. XD
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-10-27 23:01:44 UTC
Calmatt wrote:
I've ran both doctrines and really it wasn't hard to refit for tank when your dread was primary, so you don't really lose utility as a shield dread (sebos, tracking computers), plus your lows have plenty of TE's. I'm guessing that was the part you had trouble with.

you know what, im sure youre right.
ill just move on with my life.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout