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Offers of Service During a War -Mostly Scams
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Kinja Lair
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-10-26 14:23:42 UTC
This system is deplorable, it creates the opportunity for a scam perpetrated by CCP. If you accept the help offered, the Mercenary Corporation accepts payment and moves on to the next corporation being war decked, in hopes that they will get paid for services NOT RENDERED.

This system should be changed.


1. A war immediately exists between the opposite of the corporation being helped and the Mercenary corporation doing the helping if the offer is accepted.

2. Performance pay only. If the helping Mercenary corporation kills something then they get paid on a pre-agreed payment plan.

3. If the Mercenary corporation turns on the party being helped a fine of 10 time the amount of each ship killed, payed to the corporation that the Mercenary corporation contracted with, for breach of contract.

4. The Helping Mercenary corporation is locked into the war deck until the party being helped is released from their wardeck.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2 - 2014-10-26 14:43:56 UTC
This is the kind of thread you can only post on an alt.

Because people would wardec you if you used your main to post such whiny garbage.

Here's a thought, OP. Why not look at their killboard to see if their claims are true? See if they have a thread on the forums, because people will often leave testimonials.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kinja Lair
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-10-26 15:51:45 UTC
War Decks are a facts of the game, offer service that were never intend to help is a scam ..


With the statement you just wrote I must conclude you are one that is affected by any such change and would not profit.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#4 - 2014-10-26 16:32:34 UTC
The issue is quite simply that most mercs operate as hunter killers and what people really want is convoy support, which is not what the players in merc corps want, so it results in upset.

Killboards say nothing about whether they are worth employing or not, for example Marmite, they do a great job of killing stuff, but not what you want to defend a POS..., it may be that you agree a contract based on results, but most mercs demand up-front payment.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#5 - 2014-10-26 16:35:28 UTC
Kinja Lair wrote:
With the statement you just wrote I must conclude you are one that is affected by any such change and would not profit.


That's a conclusion that can only be reached by completely failing to comprehend what he wrote.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#6 - 2014-10-26 16:45:12 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
This is the kind of thread you can only post on an alt.

Because people would wardec you if you used your main to post such whiny garbage.

Here's a thought, OP. Why not look at their killboard to see if their claims are true? See if they have a thread on the forums, because people will often leave testimonials.


Yes,

Because the only proper response to raising valid points on the forum is to try and wardecc people and drive them from the game. Touche'.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#7 - 2014-10-26 16:50:08 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because the only proper response to raising valid points on the forum is to try and wardecc people and drive them from the game. Touche'.


Please point to anything resembling a valid point raised by the OP. A wardec is a perfectly proper response to people posting nonsense on the forum.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#8 - 2014-10-26 16:55:35 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because the only proper response to raising valid points on the forum is to try and wardecc people and drive them from the game. Touche'.


Please point to anything resembling a valid point raised by the OP. A wardec is a perfectly proper response to people posting nonsense on the forum.


That the merc system is a joke. There is nothing compelling the mercs to actually show up and fight.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#9 - 2014-10-26 16:57:42 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
That the merc system is a joke. There is nothing compelling the mercs to actually show up and fight.


Nothing except your ability to tell them that you'll only agree to a performance-related contract, rather than up-front isk, or your ability to look up their war history and compare it to their killboard.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#10 - 2014-10-26 17:54:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kinja Lair wrote:
This system is deplorable, it creates the opportunity for a scam perpetrated by CCP.
CCP aren't perpetrating the scam, they merely provide the framework in which the scam is possible
Quote:
If you accept the help offered, the Mercenary Corporation accepts payment and moves on to the next corporation being war decked, in hopes that they will get paid for services NOT RENDERED.
If you give them money and they move on there's no hope involved because they've already got your money, which is your problem, nobody else's.

Quote:
This system should be changed.
1. A war immediately exists between the opposite of the corporation being helped and the Mercenary corporation doing the helping if the offer is accepted.

2. Performance pay only. If the helping Mercenary corporation kills something then they get paid on a pre-agreed payment plan.

3. If the Mercenary corporation turns on the party being helped a fine of 10 time the amount of each ship killed, payed to the corporation that the Mercenary corporation contracted with, for breach of contract.

4. The Helping Mercenary corporation is locked into the war deck until the party being helped is released from their wardeck.


  1. Who's going to enforce it? Who's going to pay the wardec fee involved?

  2. That is up to you to negotiate with the mercs, not CCP to enforce.

  3. Who's going to levy the fines? The only precedent for NPCs levying fines is the smuggling of contraband. Any fines levied by NPCs or CCP for breach of merc contracts will result in the corp they were levied on behalf of ending in very short order, at the hands of the mercs the fines were levied against.

  4. See point 1


TL;DR Be careful what you wish for, it's likely to come back and bite you in the arse.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#11 - 2014-10-26 19:26:30 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because the only proper response to raising valid points on the forum is to try and wardecc people and drive them from the game. Touche'.


Please point to anything resembling a valid point raised by the OP. A wardec is a perfectly proper response to people posting nonsense on the forum.


That the merc system is a joke. There is nothing compelling the mercs to actually show up and fight.

except getting laughed at by all the other big meany faced mercs for being a bunch of sissys and never being taken seriously again,
but then you live in that state so i wouldn't expect you to understand why that would be a negative.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#12 - 2014-10-26 19:28:36 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because the only proper response to raising valid points on the forum is to try and wardecc people and drive them from the game. Touche'.


Please point to anything resembling a valid point raised by the OP. A wardec is a perfectly proper response to people posting nonsense on the forum.


That the merc system is a joke. There is nothing compelling the mercs to actually show up and fight.

except getting laughed at by all the other big meany faced mercs for being a bunch of sissys and never being taken seriously again,
but then you live in that state so i wouldn't expect you to understand why that would be a negative.


I have hired mercs when exactly? To my recollection I have responded to every wardecc against me by rolling corp and declaring 30-1 victory.

But way to derail thread into a discussion of issues into personal attacks on me, and false ones at that! Keep up the good work, sir.
Kinja Lair
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-10-26 19:36:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinja Lair
I hear a lot of opposition from a few, yet they offer no solution. If they are not Mercs, or Scammers what harm could putting pressure on players to honor their contracts with other players do? Is is possible that they are the dis-honest few who foule the game with less than honest game play. They cry because their less than truthful tactics are exposed, discussed, and hope that an end to such behavior is done away with.

They talk about war decking anyone that dare speak out about scammers and less that honest game mechanics. We know the lairs and cheat in the game just by how the try to stifle such discussions.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#14 - 2014-10-26 19:38:25 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Because the only proper response to raising valid points on the forum is to try and wardecc people and drive them from the game. Touche'.


Please point to anything resembling a valid point raised by the OP. A wardec is a perfectly proper response to people posting nonsense on the forum.


That the merc system is a joke. There is nothing compelling the mercs to actually show up and fight.

except getting laughed at by all the other big meany faced mercs for being a bunch of sissys and never being taken seriously again,
but then you live in that state so i wouldn't expect you to understand why that would be a negative.


I have hired mercs when exactly? To my recollection I have responded to every wardecc against me by rolling corp and declaring 30-1 victory.

But way to derail thread into a discussion of issues into personal attacks on me, and false ones at that! Keep up the good work, sir.

exactly, you bravely roll your corp and refuse to engage anyone in a capacity where you might lose something i.e. sissy , hense no one taking you seriously.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#15 - 2014-10-26 19:42:14 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:


exactly, you bravely roll your corp and refuse to engage anyone in a capacity where you might lose something i.e. sissy , hense no one taking you seriously.


Smart strategic thinking and economic victory =/= "sissy," but do keep trolling, it is somewhat entertaining, at least.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#16 - 2014-10-26 19:43:09 UTC
Kinja Lair wrote:
I hear a lot of opposition from a few, yet they offer no solution. If they are not Mercs, or Scammers what harm could putting pressure on players to honor their contracts with other players do? Is is possible that they are the dis-honest few who foule the game with less than honest game play. They cry because their less than truthful tactics are exposed, discussed, and hope that an end to such behavior is done away with.

They talk about war decking anyone that dare speak out about scammers and less that honest game mechanics. We know the lairs and cheat in the game just by how the try to stifle and such discussions.

do you want mercs or are you just here to whinge about getting ripped off?

if you do want someone to settle something for you

Killboard: http://www.devilswarrior.info/kb/
You can always look up any of our members or corporations on battleclinic to get further details.

Contacts: Lord Razpataz, Sir Tearz and Venree

Prices will be negotiated depending on the contract details, but in most cases only a flat rate fee is applied. If you would like different payment options all can be discussed and we can even work with you on a permanent basis.

Look for us in our public chat, The Gates Of hell

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#17 - 2014-10-26 19:51:24 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
This is the kind of thread you can only post on an alt.

Because people would wardec you if you used your main to post such whiny garbage.

Here's a thought, OP. Why not look at their killboard to see if their claims are true? See if they have a thread on the forums, because people will often leave testimonials.


Yes,

Because the only proper response to raising valid points on the forum is to try and wardecc people and drive them from the game. Touche'.


Nothing in the OP is a valid point.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kinja Lair
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-10-26 19:53:27 UTC
do you want mercs or are you just here to whinge about getting ripped off?

if you do want someone to settle something for you

Killboard: http://www.devilswarrior.info/kb/
You can always look up any of our members or corporations on battleclinic to get further details.

Contacts: Lord Razpataz, Sir Tearz and Venree

Prices will be negotiated depending on the contract details, but in most cases only a flat rate fee is applied. If you would like different payment options all can be discussed and we can even work with you on a permanent basis.

Look for us in our public chat, The Gates Of hell
[/quote]











I have lost nothing and have not tried to hired anyone. I am only pointing out an injustice in the game mechanics. Though you do make my point on Scammers and Mercs for me.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#19 - 2014-10-26 19:54:28 UTC
Kinja Lair wrote:
what harm could putting pressure on players to honor their contracts with other players do? Is is possible that they are the dis-honest few who foule the game with less than honest game play. They cry because their less than truthful tactics are exposed, discussed, and hope that an end to such behavior is done away with.


If you want to put pressure on people to honour contracts you have a variety of in-game and meta tools to do that, instead of begging CCP to do ~something~. The "foule" behaviour you talk about has always been an intended core part of Eve.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#20 - 2014-10-26 19:55:06 UTC
Kinja Lair wrote:
I hear a lot of opposition from a few, yet they offer no solution.


That's because you did not bother reading my first post. I offered a way for you to correct the errors you made that caused you to be scammed in the first place.

But you aren't getting that money back, and short of actually growing a pair (of guns) and exacting vengeance yourself, you aren't getting that either.

The best that someone like you can hope for is to learn your lesson for next time.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
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