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Dev Blog: Trials and Tribulations

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Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#41 - 2014-10-25 17:53:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Samsara Toldya
Are those changes in any way related to what you call "new player experience"?

If not, just ignore the rest of my posting.

Maybe you should consider to give a little bit (a whole lot more!) support on what you call "official help channels".
I know new players are asked to RTFM! - if there is any. If it isn't outdated.
Try monitoring the german help channel for example - see how many ISD/GM/CCP went there to help new players, answer questions or at least stop the neverending smalltalk flooding the channel making it impossible to ask for help from time to time.
As far as I remember the last ISD showed up in july Attention
We have one GM showing up each time a new release went live (for about an hour)
And I think I've seen a CCP twice within the last six weeks.

I fail to see how a battleship (which a trial most likely couldn't afford, fit or use...) is going to keep players interested.
Yes, if I can bait him into joining FW with his battleship to kill all those weak frigates there... it may keep existing players motivated.
But I do see a bunch of players asking questions about the tutorial, about fitting a destroyer, about what to do - day by day.
Best is: You don't need to wait until Phoebe, you could improve the new player experience literally right now.


Give a trial a battleship and you entertain him for a day. Teach a trial to use a battleship and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Annia Aurel
J-CORP
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2014-10-25 19:23:13 UTC
I would not want to see this info everywhere.
Can't remember when/if I had a trial account.
Wouldn't it be possible to show this info only to the affected trial accounts?

Also, why the negative form?
Negative: "This skill cannot be trained on trial accounts."
Positive: "You will be able to train this skill as soon as you upgrade to a full account."
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-10-25 20:28:08 UTC
CCP Cognac wrote:
Alstevar Eastern wrote:
A lot of good things for trials but i have bad feeling for one ;

Quote:
Trial accounts are no longer limited in the ways they can send and receive ISK.

= More spamming trial bots and players in channels for isks.


this is one of the things that we will be following closely. But our main focus was , we don't want to restrict the many for the assholery of the few. The old trials had a lot of restrictions like that and our aim was to give players the freedom the enjoy eve as much as possible in the limited time that the trial is and instead handle the bad apples accordingly


This is also how anyone can actually play Eve for Free.

Create trial account.
Grind isk.
Send all money to new trial account after the timer is up.
Grind isk again.
Repeat until 800 mil to buy a plex on a trial that can make 800 mil within a month.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-10-26 05:40:33 UTC
If I'm not mistaken at the moment one can only play one trial account or your mains and alts but NOT more than one trial account and NOT a trial account with mains and alts at the same time. Will this restriction hold in Phoebe or will we be able to run multiple trial accounts and/or trial accounts with mains and alts at the same time?
Rene Gates
Autaris Prime
#45 - 2014-10-26 09:00:01 UTC
I guess t2 small gunnery specializations were good for newbees before they can upgrade their accounts.
There is the way to get enough ISK into faction warfare for buying the PLEX. It's the way to have enough money and time for PVP.
Without t2 ammo there will be less targets to engage.
For example, my atron : without t2 charges I could fight with the one tactic - keeping target into 500 m orbit and shoot it with FN antimatter. That's why I couldn't attack blaster frigates and ones with tracking speed bonuse. With T2 ammo I can to kill the target with voids keeping approach or shoot out it with keeping @ 7 km with nulls.
So leave t2 small gunnery for trials.

Sorry for my horrible English.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#46 - 2014-10-26 10:22:30 UTC
CCP will do anything but agree that most subscribers are in EVE for the PvE and hisec, and so improving those items to enable content creation would do more for retention than anything else.

"Here's a spade and a bucket, use the spade to hit other players and the bucket to trash their sandcastles as we can't be arsed to develop other ways of using those tools -signed, CCP"
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2014-10-26 17:52:45 UTC
Rene Gates wrote:
I guess t2 small gunnery specializations were good for newbees before they can upgrade their accounts.
There is the way to get enough ISK into faction warfare for buying the PLEX. It's the way to have enough money and time for PVP.
Without t2 ammo there will be less targets to engage.
For example, my atron : without t2 charges I could fight with the one tactic - keeping target into 500 m orbit and shoot it with FN antimatter. That's why I couldn't attack blaster frigates and ones with tracking speed bonuse. With T2 ammo I can to kill the target with voids keeping approach or shoot out it with keeping @ 7 km with nulls.
So leave t2 small gunnery for trials.

Sorry for my horrible English.


T2 Weapon skill were restricted in order to guide players away from training for them. We feel the 5-7 days spend training for T2 weapons can be spent more enjoyably by trial players on numerous other skills, or training for newer ships.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#48 - 2014-10-26 21:46:07 UTC
with letting trial accounts into faction warfare it'll make it easy for any milita to bolster their numbers and make plexing/deplexing far too easy wouldn't it be fair if they made it so trial accounts could join fw but were unable to run the plex down to change the system control level
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#49 - 2014-10-26 22:39:19 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
with letting trial accounts into faction warfare it'll make it easy for any milita to bolster their numbers and make plexing/deplexing far too easy wouldn't it be fair if they made it so trial accounts could join fw but were unable to run the plex down to change the system control level


FW issues have been brought up a few times. We will be monitoring what happens, and if it's making a large and negative impact to FW we will re-restrict it.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-10-27 03:37:24 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
Gawain Edmond wrote:
with letting trial accounts into faction warfare it'll make it easy for any milita to bolster their numbers and make plexing/deplexing far too easy wouldn't it be fair if they made it so trial accounts could join fw but were unable to run the plex down to change the system control level


FW issues have been brought up a few times. We will be monitoring what happens, and if it's making a large and negative impact to FW we will re-restrict it.


Not to mention the fact that trials cannot be run concurrently on the same computer with other trials, or active accounts, so its not like everyone is going to start plexing with 3 or 4 trials while playing. Maybe 1 or 2, for those with multiple computers or a laptop, but even then,
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#51 - 2014-10-27 09:28:18 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
[T2 Weapon skill were restricted in order to guide players away from training for them. We feel the 5-7 days spend training for T2 weapons can be spent more enjoyably by trial players on numerous other skills, or training for newer ships.


Let's see... Assault Frigates (if Evemon doesn't fool me)

Without remaps and implants we need:
our Racial Frigate to V: 11 days and 18 hours
Mechanics V: 5 days and 20 hours
Power Grid Management V: 5 days and 17 hours

23 days and 7 hours if you want to fly them without gunnery support skills and other uninteresting stuff like capacitor.

Racial Frigate IV to V, Mechanics IV to V and Powergrid Management IV to V alone exceed your (extented) trial period and keep you 20+ days without any progression.

If you think T2 small weapons are a bad choice because it locks a trial 5-7 days withouth progression, think twice about the Assault Frigates you offer them.

Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2014-10-27 10:58:09 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:

ALSO important: Some of the career agents direct new players to the Sisters of EVE line--and it is common for trial players to do this mission line. However, if the new player joins FW in Amarr or Caldari, they will get killed by faction police in Arnon.


If you do the SoE arc while participating in any sort of FW you'll be roflstomped by ridiculously fit OP NPCs anyway since you're being handed once around the ENTIRE cluster anyway.

Looks good - I mean now at least the big giant orange "give us your money" signs explain why stuff is limited.
Until there would be infinite trials however I don't quite see the point of locking XL ships. Of the top of my head I personally still need somewhere around 4 months to fly a carrier if I'd start to train for it now - after having 40m SP spread to the one or other skill.

I don't think there is a trial quite long enough to reach XL ships is what I want to say I guess.
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#53 - 2014-10-27 11:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Terminus
Arcos Vandymion wrote:
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:

ALSO important: Some of the career agents direct new players to the Sisters of EVE line--and it is common for trial players to do this mission line. However, if the new player joins FW in Amarr or Caldari, they will get killed by faction police in Arnon.


If you do the SoE arc while participating in any sort of FW you'll be roflstomped by ridiculously fit OP NPCs anyway since you're being handed once around the ENTIRE cluster anyway.

Looks good - I mean now at least the big giant orange "give us your money" signs explain why stuff is limited.
Until there would be infinite trials however I don't quite see the point of locking XL ships. Of the top of my head I personally still need somewhere around 4 months to fly a carrier if I'd start to train for it now - after having 40m SP spread to the one or other skill.

I don't think there is a trial quite long enough to reach XL ships is what I want to say I guess.


A lot of the capital skill restriction additions are for clarity purposes. In the current trial we don't inform new players in any way that they cannot get to these kinds of ships in the time given. This is also a form of future-proofing, in that even if we extended the time of trials by a significant amount we would still be restricting capital ships for balance reasons.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-10-27 11:25:19 UTC
Arcos Vandymion wrote:
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:

ALSO important: Some of the career agents direct new players to the Sisters of EVE line--and it is common for trial players to do this mission line. However, if the new player joins FW in Amarr or Caldari, they will get killed by faction police in Arnon.


If you do the SoE arc while participating in any sort of FW you'll be roflstomped by ridiculously fit OP NPCs anyway since you're being handed once around the ENTIRE cluster anyway.

Looks good - I mean now at least the big giant orange "give us your money" signs explain why stuff is limited.
Until there would be infinite trials however I don't quite see the point of locking XL ships. Of the top of my head I personally still need somewhere around 4 months to fly a carrier if I'd start to train for it now - after having 40m SP spread to the one or other skill.

I don't think there is a trial quite long enough to reach XL ships is what I want to say I guess.


While CCP already pointed out that they plan to keep them locked, etc, etc; you can get a brand new character into a carrier in something like 6 months. (I plan to run the numbers later, I actually want to figure out how long it will take me to make some holding alts). So, under 14m sp or so.
Okapist
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-10-27 15:43:51 UTC
And what about trial suicide gankers?
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2014-10-27 17:26:43 UTC
Arronicus wrote:

While CCP already pointed out that they plan to keep them locked, etc, etc; you can get a brand new character into a carrier in something like 6 months. (I plan to run the numbers later, I actually want to figure out how long it will take me to make some holding alts). So, under 14m sp or so.


Slightly below 7m SP in about 5 months assuming no implants for absolutely barebones - you can undock with it but that's about it. Cloak, any sort of tank and whatever else is fitted allowing stuff to stay onlined probably adds the same amount again so 14m SP is probably very close.

When I say fly I mean "actually being usefull while fielding it" - going by the assumption that my piloting skills with said ship would just suddenly spring out of nowhere and I don't behave like a complete idiot fielding it (a battleship is flown differently than a frigate as well 'innit?). "The one or other skill" would be 307, 308 in about 16 hours, different skills so I'm a bit spread out actually. In case you're wondering what that looks like go to eveboard ^^.



"Future proofing" is nice - can we have Dogma to future proof the system for FRIGGIN-HUEG fleetbattles though? (which will become less likely/occur less often with the changes to the long distance travel which may or may not be a good thing - the logs will show after the fact).

If - in any sort of potentiall future - you lengthen the trials so considerably that one could train for an actuall carrier pilot you should think about unlocking T2 small weapons again. AFs without T2 weapons are a bit hilarious TBH and T1 frigates without T2 weapons aren't the most competitive sort of fits either.
Show people what is possible and all that - Scorch for example is such a massive performance increase to Pulse lasers you'll never want to go without it again once you can use it. Null is a comparable step up in usefulness - can't say for Barrage as projectiles completely elude me and missiles are boring either way but Blasters and Energy weapons to my experience play drastically different at T2 compared to T1.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#57 - 2014-10-27 22:15:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicen Jehr
Please consider my suggestion from EVE Vegas:

I have recently told a few people about EVE but they signed up for trials before knowing they could use my referral link.

On the page https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/
can you add a section like:
"If you get a referral link from a current EVE Pilot, you can extend your trial for an extra week. If you upgrade to a full account, your buddy will earn rewards. Click here to see standing referral offers from pilots."

I would also like a box on the trial signup page where I can simply type the name of the pilot who referred me instead of using his link.

I would also like to be able to retroactively set a referral, if I create a trial and then, sometime during my trial period, decide that I would like to use the buddy program.
Sam Spock
The Arnold Connection
#58 - 2014-10-28 15:40:51 UTC
Every solo miner with two computers will be training Miasmos pilot trials now. Probably not a bad thing. I know I could have used one!

It does help with the consistency during the career missions. They give you two racial industrial for completing missions but until this patch you can't use them until you sub. This way a newbie can get right into region trading.

Since you are unlocking PI you should perhaps add some of that to the career missions?

As for cloaking, maybe you could create a Civilian Cloak. Only activates for like 10 minutes and has a long re-activation delay. Not very useful for afk camping but would at least let them explore null a little and go to the bathroom once and a while!


Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!

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