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Tired of Pointless Wars...

Author
Cattegirn
Imperial Guardians
Tactical Narcotics Team
#81 - 2014-10-17 05:54:02 UTC
Eve as a PVE game isn't that great, but if you want to play it like X you could check the lore. I thought the idea was that those big (i.e., NPC) corps were the ones responsible for the existence of high-security, and their protective militia is called Concord. You work for them, you get their protection, and you pay their tax rate. For 10% of your bounties (and just bounties...) you get the T1000 or that shape changing ****** from T4 manifesting out of the vacuum for a guaranteed kill of your aggressor. That's not a bad ******* deal.

If the 10% tax rate the NPC massives offer is too high, and you want to go it on your own, you have to become a small state, and field your own. They pay for it, so if you aren't going to be in their club you don't get the protection.

Trey Kutoi
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#82 - 2014-10-23 17:04:36 UTC
If the war is pointless, why not just warp away? without a point, its not like it can stop you.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#83 - 2014-10-23 18:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
The first thing you have to do is become hard to pin down as a corp, do not stay in one area of hisec or even in hisec itself, have operations in low sec and NPC 0.0, try to link up with another corp that has a WH and support them for use of their hole at times. Make it so that the hisec war deccer can not sit there in a station and camp you there, make him spend his time chasing you are round Eve or contemplating whether he should follow you into dangerous areas of space where his RR can be shot before it even has an impact.

I have had some great fun over the years, one example is when moving a guy into Cloud Ring, I noted a guy setup to gate camp, he had a neutral alt in the hisec system and was warping a Myrmidon to the gate when people came to the lowsec gate. So I got my corp mate to be to keep warping to the gate than back to the station, after five goes of this the guy logged off in disgust. another time being chased in NPC Delve by one loud mouthed idiot, I made them chase me for hours by setting up safes that looked like I was in a belt from the use of the D-Scan, then when he got bored of that after a couple of hours and brought in a prober, I then used the cloak . The key thing is that you have to get your players to think on how they play the game during a war dec, treat it as an annoy them more then you. Of course there are some who will stay at it and those you will just have to make it not worth their while by operating in space they do not dare go near.

So what about missions in NPC 0.0 or low sec, what about low-sec ninja mining, what about doing some low sec and 0.0 exploration, what about doing some WH sites. While doing this make sure that you have people logged on with alts that watch what he does, get a feel for his actions, even lose a couple of ships at the start, find out what they do, then set your trap, loggoffski's are your best bet, also use ECM and snsor dampening boats and long ponting and web ships to keep him immobile when you do this, do all what I say and you will not be bothered.

It is frustrating and yes it does drive away players, I for one got fed up being cloaky BLOP's camped 6 months in Stain, however I had made a rod for my own back in that I was the bait for them to camp while others were in other systems doing their things, that was screwed when someone told the camper that and he upped his game, but here is the rub, sit back and work out what you can do and their parameters then act accordingly and do not be a static target unless you want to be.

Good luck and thanks for your service.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Heather Austrene
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2014-10-24 09:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Heather Austrene
My opinion. Many if not most wardeccers prey on noob corps. I think wars make a lot of players get frustrated and quit the game. In my short time playing the two corps I have joined got wardecced, everyone stopped playing, and I was left the choice of trying to fight by myself with no experience or assistance or quit the corp or stop playing the game. If the wardec wasn't something that would last indefinitely, I probably would have stayed and road it out, but the last corp is still wardecced after several weeks.

I do not think that highsec wars should be eliminated, but I think they should be nerfed. Right now wardecs are cheap and easy to declare. There is almost no negative to the aggressor at all when wardeccing a carebear corp. One of the corps that declared war on us has 150 simultaneous wars at the same time. I know this is a game, but in the real world declaring war has major consequences political and economic, perhaps there could be a temporary sec status loss to the corp for each war they declare, and/or the cost of declaring to increase for each additional simultaneous war. And also cost progressively more for each additional week the war is extended. This way a corp would have to be a little choosy in who they declare war on rather than just declaring war on everybody.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2014-10-24 11:29:32 UTC
Heather Austrene wrote:
My opinion. Many if not most wardeccers prey on noob corps. I think wars make a lot of players get frustrated and quit the game. In my short time playing the two corps I have joined got wardecced, everyone stopped playing, and I was left the choice of trying to fight by myself with no experience or assistance or quit the corp or stop playing the game. If the wardec wasn't something that would last indefinitely, I probably would have stayed and road it out, but the last corp is still wardecced after several weeks.

I do not think that highsec wars should be eliminated, but I think they should be nerfed. Right now wardecs are cheap and easy to declare. There is almost no negative to the aggressor at all when wardeccing a carebear corp. One of the corps that declared war on us has 150 simultaneous wars at the same time. I know this is a game, but in the real world declaring war has major consequences political and economic, perhaps there could be a temporary sec status loss to the corp for each war they declare, and/or the cost of declaring to increase for each additional simultaneous war. And also cost progressively more for each additional week the war is extended. This way a corp would have to be a little choosy in who they declare war on rather than just declaring war on everybody.



cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#86 - 2014-10-24 12:31:21 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Heather Austrene wrote:
My opinion. Many if not most wardeccers prey on noob corps. I think wars make a lot of players get frustrated and quit the game. In my short time playing the two corps I have joined got wardecced, everyone stopped playing, and I was left the choice of trying to fight by myself with no experience or assistance or quit the corp or stop playing the game. If the wardec wasn't something that would last indefinitely, I probably would have stayed and road it out, but the last corp is still wardecced after several weeks.

I do not think that highsec wars should be eliminated, but I think they should be nerfed. Right now wardecs are cheap and easy to declare. There is almost no negative to the aggressor at all when wardeccing a carebear corp. One of the corps that declared war on us has 150 simultaneous wars at the same time. I know this is a game, but in the real world declaring war has major consequences political and economic, perhaps there could be a temporary sec status loss to the corp for each war they declare, and/or the cost of declaring to increase for each additional simultaneous war. And also cost progressively more for each additional week the war is extended. This way a corp would have to be a little choosy in who they declare war on rather than just declaring war on everybody.



cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.


Perhaps the issue is more to do with your target selection..

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Heather Austrene
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2014-10-24 14:37:47 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.


If anything this proves my point, if you are spending billions in war decs you are just spam deccing to many people. Making it costlier to conduct large numbers of concurrent wars would force you to select particularly large or stupid corps, or corps you know might put up a fight rather than disbanding.

But you are right, although unpleasant and frustrating, it is easy to avoid war decs. Perhaps along with my suggested nerf, a change could be made that you can't avoid being a war target by dropping out of corp. That instead you remain a vaild war target until the week runs out no matter what corp you run to. This would help prevent corps disintegrating due to war weariness as well.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#88 - 2014-10-24 17:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Heather Austrene wrote:
If anything this proves my point, if you are spending billions in war decs you are just spam deccing to many people. Making it costlier to conduct large numbers of concurrent wars would force you to select particularly large or stupid corps, or corps you know might put up a fight rather than disbanding.


You might think so at a glance, but it's really not the case.

People already do select particularly large, stupid corps and corps they expect might put up a fight, those are the exact selection criteria that people use when declaring wars (unless they have a more specific reason obviously). However the current state of highsec is such that even when picking targets based on those critera you need to declare war on as many of those groups that you can reasonably afford to just to provide targets.

Changes made to the war system have had a strange affect. The massive increase in the base cost of wars totally eliminated small, unskilled wardec groups, so there aren't "low level" aggressors anymore. This means corps don't get wardecced at all until they reach a critical mass where they become a target for more experienced, better funded people and subsequently have no freaking idea what to do about it. At the same time the ally system came about, which by serving as an advert for a free wars against the aggressor totally eliminated the use of wars by anyone who is not a dedicated PVP group. The result is highsec groups that don't exist specifically for highsec PVP have no exposure to PVP until the people they have to deal with areway beyond their skill and experience level, subsequently they don't consider it a normal, fun part of the game. So when wars happen they hide.

The lack of good targets makes running dedicated wardec corps an alliances extremely expensive, which again discourages start-ups, so people interested in highsec PVP join established groups, which makes those groups more powerful, which discourages highsec groups from fighting back, which makes them need to declare more wars in order to provide more targets.

It's a ecological problem, and it's self perpetuating. It's bad for everyone because it results in huge costs to us wardec outfits and it results in other highsec groups constantly being at war with one group or another. The solution is not "nerf wardecs" we've been nerfing wardecs and that's what lead us here.
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#89 - 2014-10-24 20:53:54 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

It's a ecological problem, and it's self perpetuating. It's bad for everyone because it results in huge costs to us wardec outfits and it results in other highsec groups constantly being at war with one group or another. The solution is not "nerf wardecs" we've been nerfing wardecs and that's what lead us here.


I'm gonna chime in with the view of one of the "other highsec groups" that is constantly at war with one group or another. You are totally correct with your view of the current ecosystem. My alliance has been pretty much constantly dec'd since we left null and moved to HS in August. I'm sure theres one reason or another in terms of in game motivation.

One piece of advice I keep seeing is that people should undock and fight back. Theres really no point to the Indy corp doing it in the majority of cases. My own alliances experience shows that. We've killed Rattlesnakes, pods, T3s, falcons. We're still perma-deccd. We can be seen putting a 12 domi blob with AHAC tackle, falcons, and logi support on the field, we still get dec'd. The monthly subcap losses my alliance takes don't come anywhere near putting us in danger. The losses we inflict wouldn't put any organized PvP group in any danger of collapsing either though. If anything undocking has encouraged more decs on us and if that is the consequence of fighting back,successfully or not, why would an Indy corp undock at all?

Theres no way for the newer Indy Corp to come out ahead whether they undock or not. Thats single biggest thing that needs to change IMO. Dedicated PVPers can celebrate hitting their goals in KMs, fun fights, etc. but if your goal is to get back to doing Indy work from HS the mechanics are not in your favor. I don't think a simple nerf or buff to any one thing fixes this. War dec mechanics need a redesign from the ground up.

Every day I'm wafflin!

Typher Sloan
Vagabonds and Freelancers
#90 - 2014-10-24 21:42:33 UTC
There should be a cool off period of atleast a couple weeks. If a person plays this game to mine or mission, it should be there right to do so. Instead people are forced to play the game like someone else wants them to, or not play at all. High sec players especially take a cut on loot profits as it is. They shouldn't suffer griefers as well.
Heather Austrene
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2014-10-24 22:22:43 UTC
I see the point made by Vimsy, and so it leads me to agree that the highsec wardec system is broken in such a way that it isn't good for either side and need to be looked at afresh as suggested. Perhaps encouraging smaller corps to wardec by making the cost of war scaled according to the size of the corp doing the deccing would encourage more amateur wardeccers and more even conflicts. It has even crossed my mind as a one man corp to wardec someone just for the hell of it, but it doesn't seem that my one man corp should pay as much as a 150 strong corp.



Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#92 - 2014-10-26 04:13:36 UTC
It didn't used to be this broken. It wasn't this broken until they "fixed" it in Inferno. Prior to that the only major problem was the ability of corps to join an alliance and instantly leave again to shed wars for free and that wasn't a problem until CCP decided that after years of that being considered an exploit that it wasn't an exploit anymore.

The system went from being largely fine with a number of highly specific problems to being a totally lopsided mess overnight. The worst problem which was the cost scaling math got addressed, but that wasn't the only thing.

As it turns out designing a war system that massively favors the defender and makes their use prohibitively expensive and dangerous to the average Joe was a terrible idea. Mechanics should be designed with the intent to make them usable and accessible to people interested in them. With wars the exact opposite is the case.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2014-10-26 08:22:34 UTC
Heather Austrene wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.


If anything this proves my point, if you are spending billions in war decs you are just spam deccing to many people. Making it costlier to conduct large numbers of concurrent wars would force you to select particularly large or stupid corps, or corps you know might put up a fight rather than disbanding.

But you are right, although unpleasant and frustrating, it is easy to avoid war decs. Perhaps along with my suggested nerf, a change could be made that you can't avoid being a war target by dropping out of corp. That instead you remain a vaild war target until the week runs out no matter what corp you run to. This would help prevent corps disintegrating due to war weariness as well.




NOpe. We spend Billions because each war can cost half a bil And you need to have at lEAST 20 times more WT than you have members if you wnt to each one have at least some chance to get into cobmat every day.

It is jsut th enormal ratio forpredators and pray. YOu cannot have a falcon survive with a single dove in the region. THey need a hundred or more inthe region to keep a supply and not starve or destroy the food population.


IF we woudl need tto select jsut 3-4 targets,t hen War targets woudl be worthless, because no way we could have enough targets to have a chance of doing ANYTHIGN during a weekend.


IF the average playerwas not a coward chicken, then maybe we woudl not need so many wars.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2014-10-26 08:23:31 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Heather Austrene wrote:
My opinion. Many if not most wardeccers prey on noob corps. I think wars make a lot of players get frustrated and quit the game. In my short time playing the two corps I have joined got wardecced, everyone stopped playing, and I was left the choice of trying to fight by myself with no experience or assistance or quit the corp or stop playing the game. If the wardec wasn't something that would last indefinitely, I probably would have stayed and road it out, but the last corp is still wardecced after several weeks.

I do not think that highsec wars should be eliminated, but I think they should be nerfed. Right now wardecs are cheap and easy to declare. There is almost no negative to the aggressor at all when wardeccing a carebear corp. One of the corps that declared war on us has 150 simultaneous wars at the same time. I know this is a game, but in the real world declaring war has major consequences political and economic, perhaps there could be a temporary sec status loss to the corp for each war they declare, and/or the cost of declaring to increase for each additional simultaneous war. And also cost progressively more for each additional week the war is extended. This way a corp would have to be a little choosy in who they declare war on rather than just declaring war on everybody.



cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.


Perhaps the issue is more to do with your target selection..



Noits related to MATH. I know.. an advance concept to some here. But you NEed to have a LOT of prey .. many times the number of predators if you want an ecosystem to work.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#95 - 2014-10-26 09:35:50 UTC
Typed on a phone much?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#96 - 2014-10-26 09:39:24 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Heather Austrene wrote:
My opinion. Many if not most wardeccers prey on noob corps. I think wars make a lot of players get frustrated and quit the game. In my short time playing the two corps I have joined got wardecced, everyone stopped playing, and I was left the choice of trying to fight by myself with no experience or assistance or quit the corp or stop playing the game. If the wardec wasn't something that would last indefinitely, I probably would have stayed and road it out, but the last corp is still wardecced after several weeks.

I do not think that highsec wars should be eliminated, but I think they should be nerfed. Right now wardecs are cheap and easy to declare. There is almost no negative to the aggressor at all when wardeccing a carebear corp. One of the corps that declared war on us has 150 simultaneous wars at the same time. I know this is a game, but in the real world declaring war has major consequences political and economic, perhaps there could be a temporary sec status loss to the corp for each war they declare, and/or the cost of declaring to increase for each additional simultaneous war. And also cost progressively more for each additional week the war is extended. This way a corp would have to be a little choosy in who they declare war on rather than just declaring war on everybody.



cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.


Perhaps the issue is more to do with your target selection..



Noits related to MATH. I know.. an advance concept to some here. But you NEed to have a LOT of prey .. many times the number of predators if you want an ecosystem to work.


Like correct punctuation Big smile

The point is understandable, on the basis that you are going for any kill, a fair chunk of them will be naive people who carry on as normal or take risks that they should not, if that is what you want then your scatter gun approach is what you need to do. I also know that you guys do go after more able targets who fight back.

But if you are after kills on stupid or naive people then you have to spend billions, as I said the issue is with your target selection, its pure maths as you say.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2014-10-26 09:42:08 UTC
Toriessian wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

It's a ecological problem, and it's self perpetuating. It's bad for everyone because it results in huge costs to us wardec outfits and it results in other highsec groups constantly being at war with one group or another. The solution is not "nerf wardecs" we've been nerfing wardecs and that's what lead us here.


I'm gonna chime in with the view of one of the "other highsec groups" that is constantly at war with one group or another. You are totally correct with your view of the current ecosystem. My alliance has been pretty much constantly dec'd since we left null and moved to HS in August. I'm sure theres one reason or another in terms of in game motivation.

One piece of advice I keep seeing is that people should undock and fight back. Theres really no point to the Indy corp doing it in the majority of cases. My own alliances experience shows that. We've killed Rattlesnakes, pods, T3s, falcons. We're still perma-deccd. We can be seen putting a 12 domi blob with AHAC tackle, falcons, and logi support on the field, we still get dec'd. The monthly subcap losses my alliance takes don't come anywhere near putting us in danger. The losses we inflict wouldn't put any organized PvP group in any danger of collapsing either though. If anything undocking has encouraged more decs on us and if that is the consequence of fighting back,successfully or not, why would an Indy corp undock at all?

Theres no way for the newer Indy Corp to come out ahead whether they undock or not. Thats single biggest thing that needs to change IMO. Dedicated PVPers can celebrate hitting their goals in KMs, fun fights, etc. but if your goal is to get back to doing Indy work from HS the mechanics are not in your favor. I don't think a simple nerf or buff to any one thing fixes this. War dec mechanics need a redesign from the ground up.



If you kill things from these groups they tend to drop the wars because all the merc groups need a clean killboard. At least the groups that pursue you out of the jita amarr pipe do.

Also.. if you can fight back like you say.. why not enjoy this game , that is completely geared towards PVP and DO FIGHT?

You are not supposed to go back to doign ONLY indy stuff. You are supposed to work a bit liek in 0.0 where you need intel channels and when war dec pilots come closer your indy pilots are warned and your forces scramble to defend.


NO one is entitled to playing all by itself on his own pocket of imagination in this game.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#98 - 2014-10-26 09:48:44 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
It didn't used to be this broken. It wasn't this broken until they "fixed" it in Inferno. Prior to that the only major problem was the ability of corps to join an alliance and instantly leave again to shed wars for free and that wasn't a problem until CCP decided that after years of that being considered an exploit that it wasn't an exploit anymore.

The system went from being largely fine with a number of highly specific problems to being a totally lopsided mess overnight. The worst problem which was the cost scaling math got addressed, but that wasn't the only thing.

As it turns out designing a war system that massively favors the defender and makes their use prohibitively expensive and dangerous to the average Joe was a terrible idea. Mechanics should be designed with the intent to make them usable and accessible to people interested in them. With wars the exact opposite is the case.


At the end of this week I re-subbed as Phoebe is just around the corner, yay!!!! Which deals with one of my issues in terms of Eve, its not the end game to improve things but its a start. When I logged on one of my friends had a war dec someone seeing an off-line POS decided to dec him, so I offered to help for 1 ISK. At this point his POS's are all fueled and setup to defend and the war dec has been live for 2 days and nothing, he has not even needed to accept my help. And there I was hoping for a bit of hisec fun before heading to deep 0.0 Roll

One of the issues before was that you war decc'd a single corp who had no chance, now they can ask friends to help and in some cases this produces content, perhaps it does not scale up very well against professional and very able war dec alliances/corps like you, but at the lower level it should produce small gang combat.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2014-10-26 09:49:19 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Heather Austrene wrote:
My opinion. Many if not most wardeccers prey on noob corps. I think wars make a lot of players get frustrated and quit the game. In my short time playing the two corps I have joined got wardecced, everyone stopped playing, and I was left the choice of trying to fight by myself with no experience or assistance or quit the corp or stop playing the game. If the wardec wasn't something that would last indefinitely, I probably would have stayed and road it out, but the last corp is still wardecced after several weeks.

I do not think that highsec wars should be eliminated, but I think they should be nerfed. Right now wardecs are cheap and easy to declare. There is almost no negative to the aggressor at all when wardeccing a carebear corp. One of the corps that declared war on us has 150 simultaneous wars at the same time. I know this is a game, but in the real world declaring war has major consequences political and economic, perhaps there could be a temporary sec status loss to the corp for each war they declare, and/or the cost of declaring to increase for each additional simultaneous war. And also cost progressively more for each additional week the war is extended. This way a corp would have to be a little choosy in who they declare war on rather than just declaring war on everybody.



cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.


Perhaps the issue is more to do with your target selection..



Noits related to MATH. I know.. an advance concept to some here. But you NEed to have a LOT of prey .. many times the number of predators if you want an ecosystem to work.


Like correct punctuation Big smile

The point is understandable, on the basis that you are going for any kill, a fair chunk of them will be naive people who carry on as normal or take risks that they should not, if that is what you want then your scatter gun approach is what you need to do. I also know that you guys do go after more able targets who fight back.

But if you are after kills on stupid or naive people then you have to spend billions, as I said the issue is with your target selection, its pure maths as you say.


We need both types of targets. IF we keep only the contracts we collapse our playerbase, because most of the day there will be nothign to do. So we have basically 3 types of wars, Bulk wars, so that there is alway somethign to do and to make money, these include groups of shiny missions runenrs, shiny incursion runners and other targets taht can drop billions in a kill and help us pay our bills. Conrtact wars, were we are paid to make certain groups suffer and we do nto care if they are new or not. And For fight wars, were we have 1 or 2 mercenary groups and/or low sec fight groups in war so we have good fights.

We also cannto keep the BEST wartargets under war forever, because they woudl collapse, and we prefer to farm them. We frequently give a bgreak to those groups so they can recover (as long as they do not start whiny threads in the forums about how wardec systems are broken, then we elevate the war to holy war level and crush their souls)


So we need all types of targets. What eve needs is better instruction to pilots. Its impressive how most do not even know that other players can war scramble them. That is a failure by CCP on their tutorials.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2014-10-26 09:51:37 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
It didn't used to be this broken. It wasn't this broken until they "fixed" it in Inferno. Prior to that the only major problem was the ability of corps to join an alliance and instantly leave again to shed wars for free and that wasn't a problem until CCP decided that after years of that being considered an exploit that it wasn't an exploit anymore.

The system went from being largely fine with a number of highly specific problems to being a totally lopsided mess overnight. The worst problem which was the cost scaling math got addressed, but that wasn't the only thing.

As it turns out designing a war system that massively favors the defender and makes their use prohibitively expensive and dangerous to the average Joe was a terrible idea. Mechanics should be designed with the intent to make them usable and accessible to people interested in them. With wars the exact opposite is the case.


At the end of this week I re-subbed as Phoebe is just around the corner, yay!!!! Which deals with one of my issues in terms of Eve, its not the end game to improve things but its a start. When I logged on one of my friends had a war dec someone seeing an off-line POS decided to dec him, so I offered to help for 1 ISK. At this point his POS's are all fueled and setup to defend and the war dec has been live for 2 days and nothing, he has not even needed to accept my help. And there I was hoping for a bit of hisec fun before heading to deep 0.0 Roll

One of the issues before was that you war decc'd a single corp who had no chance, now they can ask friends to help and in some cases this produces content, perhaps it does not scale up very well against professional and very able war dec alliances/corps like you, but at the lower level it should produce small gang combat.



I would wait a bit more to celebrate, most war dec groups do not go after their war targets onthe first day or 2 of the war, when they are more prone to just stay docked.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"