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Lost my Maelstrom - feedback welcome
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Lorn Ktahn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-09-12 18:21:41 UTC
Greetings everyone.

Got to level 4 missions yesterday and was excited to head into my first one. Went to my agent and she gave me the 5 part series "In the depths of deep space." I check out the mission online find out what dmg type to bring and what resists to stack. Below was (/cry) my fit.

[Maelstrom, Mission setup]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

800mm Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

So I warp in through the first gate and deal with everything with no issues. Head to the 2nd gate and go through. The second gate puts you almost right on top of the next wave. The 4 frigs in this wave were 8km away after the initial warp in. I launch my drones - which are only warrior I's and send them for the frigs. The frigs warp scramble me almost immediately, and are too close to hit with my guns - drones are doing some dmg, but not very fast.

I lasted for a little while, shields went down, the rest happened fairly quickly.

Is the issue in my drone skills? Is it essential to have T2 heavies? Or was this my stupidity?

Thanks for any help

Lorn
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-09-12 18:36:04 UTC
I welcome you to level 4 missions, good sir! Unfortunately, your experience matched mine about a year ago.. very excited to head into my first one, got in there, died horribly in my Typhoon. I'll share with you some things I learned.

1. It's good that you checked for damage type and those things.. did you also check for aggro triggers and the like? If you're pulling full room aggro on certain missions, it doesn't matter what your skills are, you're going to have a very rough time.

2. Obviously with the booster, you're not a cap stable setup. That might not have saved you, but in my mission setups, I found it important to be as stable as humanly possible. Of course, I did run an armor tank, so results may vary.

3. While T2 scout drone skills are very important (get them), probably not your problem here. You put lights (warriors) on the frigates, which was right.. you just didn't have enough time. While they were chewing through the frigs, you should have been trying to clear as much big rat DPS as possible with your guns. Your guns are never going to hit orbiting frigates, that's for certain. And fitting autocannons with no propulsion module? I hope you were fighting Angels.. and even then, you're going to have issues with the cruisers. I'm a fan of artillery.. slower, maybe, but more effective against the kiting stuff.

Lastly, don't get discouraged. Losing ships sucks.. especially battleships, when you're all excited about flying them. You'll figure it out, make that money back, and more. Hang in there!
LamaLeif Dreper
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-09-12 18:52:52 UTC
You can do a few things to improve the tank of your Maelstrom, like swapping:

Medium Cap Booster II --> Heavy Cap Booster II
Large Shield Extender II --> 4th shield hardener or afterburner (in missions with alot of travel, and bships orbiting at 50km)
3x Large CCC rigs --> 3x Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard.

Other than that Feligast already mentioned T2 scout drones, namely Hobgoblin IIs
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#4 - 2011-09-12 19:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mendolus
[Maelstrom, L4s]
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
X-Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Racial Shield Hardener
Racial Shield Hardener

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L

Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Zirric J
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#5 - 2011-09-12 19:10:45 UTC
I didn't see any mention how many drones you deployed or your drone or other skills... If I missed that I apologize. Everything in Eve is about skill so you can have the best fit ship in the game but you will loose it without proper skills

If you want to shield tank you should have the "Improved" active shield tanking certificate and the "standard" certificate on core capacitor. Certificates aren't perfect but they are a good guide as to what skills to train.

Drone interfacing to 4 is a must to run level 4's IMO. 20% damage increase per level.


These are just my opinions of course... I'm sure some will disagree.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#6 - 2011-09-12 19:13:47 UTC
Swapping the LSE for a boost amp is probably your easiest change, and will actually help your tank quite a bit. T2 drones will also help quite a bit. Using Hobgoblins is almost always preferable to Warriors, even against Angels (due to wonky frigate resistances).

If you're really struggling tank-wise, swap out one of your lows for a Damage Control II. It isn't a huge boost for shield tankers but it can easily make the difference between getting out in one piece and losing a ship.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-09-12 19:19:41 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Swapping the LSE for a boost amp is probably your easiest change, and will actually help your tank quite a bit. T2 drones will also help quite a bit. Using Hobgoblins is almost always preferable to Warriors, even against Angels (due to wonky frigate resistances).

If you're really struggling tank-wise, swap out one of your lows for a Damage Control II. It isn't a huge boost for shield tankers but it can easily make the difference between getting out in one piece and losing a ship.


Lord, I completely missed you not having a DCU II. The 60% hull resists saved my life more than a handful of times when I was still missioning.
Lorn Ktahn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-09-12 19:37:18 UTC
Thanks for the advice everyone...I think I see where I can make some good improvements.

Cheers
JVLP
Dark Nexxus
#9 - 2011-09-12 19:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: JVLP
Module-wise:

Replace LSE for SB Amplifier.

Replace Medium Cap Booster for Heavy Cap Booster. Fill up cargo with cap booster 800.

Replace 1 gyro for damage control.

Since you are cap boosting, you don't need ccc rigs. Change rigs to help all resists. 1 em screen, 1 thermal screen, 1 kinetic screen. These are cheap and if you're starting L4s you want to go tank-heavy until you're comfortable. These rigs make a good PVP ship too. Replace them later if you want as you get comfortable. I myself would keep them. That's how I run all my Maels.

Skill-wise:

For PVE scram/web situations in a BS, nothing is better than having hob IIs with high drone interfacing.
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#10 - 2011-09-12 19:47:16 UTC
Actually you did quite a few things wrong, and had you not died in the second room you most certainly would have died in the 3rd room.

1) In the midst of Deadspace is against Amarr and Caldari, you have no em hardners listed in your setup, you were taking 100% em damage against amarr, no way you could tank that.

2) The medium cap booster is worthless on this fit, should have been a heavy. If that doesn't fit, you need to train up engineering and/or electronics so you can fit it.

3) DC II in lows until you feel very comfortable in lvl 4's

4) Phased plasma is best against Caldari, but to take out the Amarr BS in the second pocket you should have swapped to EMP.

5) From your post I got the impression you panicked in the second room. The frigates cannot break your tank (even setup as it was). Take out the BS and the sentry guns, shooting the frigates didn't help you.

I normally do not like AC ships without a propulsion mod since your effective engagement range is approximately opt + 2/3 falloff (for cruisers and above at least) and the Mael does not have a bonus to falloff, but if you want to go without one, I would have had my mids set up like this:

XL Shield Booster II
Invul Field II
Photon II
Thermal II
Ballistic II
Heavy Cap Booster II w/800's

But don't worry, almost everybody who runs lvl 4 missions has lost a ship at one time or another. Treat it as a learning experience. Hope this helps.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#11 - 2011-09-12 19:57:24 UTC
Question: What did you run out of first, cap or HP?

If you ran out of cap, consider T2 Shield Resistance Amplifiers and the skills that help them.
If you ran out of HP, see above (use a Shield Boost Amplifier II, watch trigger ships, etc.).
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#12 - 2011-09-12 23:52:56 UTC
Just to add to the discussion:

T2 light and medium drones ASAP. You can run without 'em, but you'll have an easier time throwing off those scramming frigs if you've got them.
Shield Boost Amp and a Heavy Booster loaded with 800s just as JVLP described.
The DCU II in the lows is also a fine idea and at that point, you can pretty much blitz Worlds Collide all the way to the Heron, the tank is that good.


No one said anything about those T1 ACs, but I think you'll do much better w/ a T1 1200 Arty fit. You'll soon learn to volley out some of the frigs & dessys on approach and then clobber the cruisers and BCs since they're the ones throwing most of the DPS at you. Those T1 ACs just aren't anything at all like the T2s since you can't load barrage (which is where the AC Mael really shines). You'll go from having crappy effective range of about 30km or so out to beyond 80km. Your volley with the 1200s will probably be in the vicinity of 4K so split your guns into 2 groups for popping stuff as it approaches (thus dropping transversal to near 0). Many will tell you to roll the 1400s, but at low SP, they're pretty tough to fit and take ages to cycle. The 1200 really seem to be the best bet at low SP. YMMV.

Bump over to BC and look at Seriously Bored's Baby Varg Mael fit. Use that fit but throw the 1200s on and you'll be fine. Having said that though, I would work those drone skills up to T2 lights before doing Lv 4s.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
Wa'roun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-09-13 00:12:25 UTC
Feligast wrote:
And fitting autocannons with no propulsion module? I hope you were fighting Angels.. and even then, you're going to have issues with the cruisers. I'm a fan of artillery.. slower, maybe, but more effective against the kiting stuff.



I thought, "800mm Repeating Artillery I", is artillery?...
Sugilite
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-09-13 00:17:09 UTC
Wa'roun wrote:

I thought, "800mm Repeating Artillery I", is artillery?...

Well, try looking it up, because it's not. Large arties are 1200m and 1400m. The key word in that item is 'repeating.'
Flakey Foont
#15 - 2011-09-13 02:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Flakey Foont
Definitely replace extender with boost amplifier and get a heavy cap booster w/800s.

And no sense for CCC rigs with cap boosters. This worked for me:


[Maelstrom, FF current Mael]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Heavy Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
100MN Afterburner I
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
'Stalwart' I Particle Field Magnifier

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L

Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II


Mission specific T2 drones.
LamaLeif Dreper
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-09-13 03:37:32 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
Definitely replace extender with boost amplifier and get a heavy cap booster w/800s.

And no sense for CCC rigs with cap boosters. This worked for me:


[Maelstrom, FF current Mael]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Heavy Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
100MN Afterburner I
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
'Stalwart' I Particle Field Magnifier

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L

Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II


Mission specific T2 drones.


This works very well, I used to fly my Maelstrom with a fit like that except for the Shield Boost Amp, it shouldn't be needed since Mael gets a bonus to boosting per Min BS lvl, I used a hardener instead.
Flakey Foont
#17 - 2011-09-13 04:57:09 UTC
Also, when you can't shoot the webbers before they get inside range, let the T2 lights kill 'em. They will only scratch you. Your priority is whatever is doing the most damage to you. Usually the BSs.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-09-13 05:35:09 UTC
shield extender for boost amp
cap booster for boost amp
with x large shield booster you have to pulse it when u get half shield turn it on for 1-2 cycles and u get full shield again then turn it off...

iirc just just a large shield booster and cap rechargers.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-09-13 10:02:53 UTC
I won't go into fitting its been discussed above but from a preparation / tactical point of view:

You set the damage on your guns to match your opponents, but not the damage of your drones - you reduced your ability to take out the warp scrambling frigs.

You shot at the frigs with your guns - you didn't have a chance in a blue moon of hitting frigs with those guns - you would have been better served shooting the bigger stuff to reduce incoming DPS. Even if it would not have allowed you to complete the pocket it would have bought you precious time.

Really train up for T2 light drones - you don't need T2 heavies but a full flight of T2 light drones make a big difference in these situations.
Zirric J
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#20 - 2011-09-17 20:59:10 UTC
Yea I missed the fact that you were running autocannons. You would be much better off using artillery. If you have autocannons an afterburner is a must. This of course takes a mid slot and reduces your shield tank.
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