Intergalactic Summit

This message is primarily directed to my brothers and sisters of the Federation but I welcome anyone to read it if they so choose.

I realize I have only been in space as a capsuleer for a short period of time but I have been Gallente all my life and a supporter of the Federation for most of my life. I have been observing the conversations here on the Intergalactic Summit and in various comm channels and what I have seen and heard vexes me.

The Federation is built upon the ideals of freedom, liberty, individuality and enterprise. Practicing these ideals demands that we hold, without exception, that all peoples regardless of race, religion, creed or genealogy possess intrinsic rights and freedoms that must be respected and honored. These intrinsic properties of all people are precious and fragile things that are so easily forsaken, manipulated and tread upon and it is the duty and responsibility of all whom claim to uphold them to do so with fervor and diligence.

So I ask you; if this is our purpose, our creed as a people, why are we despised and reviled by so many? Is it just perspective? Are we simply misunderstood?

I think not.

The kind of disgust and revulsion leveled against us by so many is not the result of misunderstandings and differing perspectives. It is the kind of attitude that is developed over time based on observation and experience. Many of our responses to peoples with differing ideologies and practices is to froth at the mouth and attack them and their beliefs with venom and self-righteousness! We preach freedom and liberty while trying to force our way of life and our ideals onto everyone else. (What hypocrisy?!) We behave as if we are beyond reproach and attack any idea or philosophy that differs from our own.

In short, the problem is us.

There are simple truths to whom we are that some of us seem to have forgotten.

Freedom is not free and it cannot be forced upon an individual.
If we truly espouse freedom then we must respect the right of an individual to choose their chains.
If an individual's intrinsic rights and freedoms are being trampled upon against their will, then we act in their defense.
The path we have chosen to walk is voluntary. It is not an expectation of others to do the same but a philosophy we have chosen to demonstrate by example.

If nothing else, let us first look to the ruins of our own home before we try telling others to clean theirs. We have, within our own borders, plenty of people lacking representation in government, lacking education and empowerment to improve themselves and their standings, lacking resources and opportunities. In a Federation constructed upon the ideals of intrinsic worth to all people, so much more could be done to lift up and build up rather than simply assimilate and neglect.

I have likely overstepped myself in the posting of this but my desire is that we overcome ourselves in order to truly be whom we claim to be. I believe fervently in the ideals of the Federation and I, for one, will do all that I can to be worthy of the title "Federation Citizen" and all the ideals that it implies.

What does it mean to defend freedom? It means you can despise me and everything I stand for and I will strive to defend your right to do so.

Simple, yet changes everything.

Almost too deep for me, honestly.

Can still buttslap people: ✔
Chocolate is plenty: ✔
Can post pics of naked butts: ✔
Quafe is in every station: ✔


Yup. Nothing wrong with the Federation, you're a potato.

You and your article almost had me, Mr. Merdaneth, but this is not the same.

Slaves have no choice but to suffer at the hands of their masters, do all the dirty labor and die in the end, their destiny is predetermined. Those, who are being 'liberated', on the other hand, have plenty of choice. They can run from the enemy or they can fight back. While I understand that this situation is also being forced upon the so called 'liberated', they can elude the whole situation by just abandoning their home. They won't have to dedicate their live to some ugly religionist.

I talked to a few friends of mine from Udorian and Ni-Kunni stock. They were highly amused by the fact that you claim their current lofty positions were determined, and that you decleared them dead at the same time. They were also amused that you think running a multi-billion water recycling plant or a chain of orphanages is considered 'dirty labor' where you come from.



I've just told some of my slaves that a pod pilot by the name of Jaret claimed on the IGS that they can neither move their feet nor wave their fists because they are slaves. They had a good laugh at that. They like you to visit so that they can challenge you to a sprint duel or allow you to throw the first punch their way so that you can see how hard they will hit you in return.



Do you consider abandoning your home such a minor matter that can be brushed aside as mostly irrelevant? Do you mean to say that if the Amarr want to conquer Republic space and enslave its people, it isn't a big issue because the Minmatar can simple elude the situation by relocating to different worlds and avoid our 'liberation'?



Is this some kind of racism against the Amarr, by calling us ugly. Or do you simply have issues with religion and consider faith and ugly thing unworthy to dedicate your life too?

Mr. Victorian, I'm honestly interested in what you have to say, but please take some more time before to formulate a coherent and intelligent response. Unless you want me to take it apart like I did here.

If the recent performance of Federation capsuleers in the Navy 'research initiative' is any indication, we are the least invested among our fellow citizens in the well-being of the government which enshrines and defends our freedoms. A shameful and altogether expected result, considering the ignorance of the average numbskull 'Fed loyalist' supporting the plutocrat-sponsored 'liberation' of otherwise free systems.

In a society where freedom is free, it has no value. Ask anyone who isn't ethnic Gallente about how the Federation values freedom.

I wholeheartedly agree with Liam. Many fail to understand that freedom comes with responsibility, and that you can't force freedom. Freedom is a choice, and it starts with the individual deciding to be free and act upon it. Bleed for it if he has to. Freedom forced upon another is just oppression by another name.

Just as importantly, freedom has consequences. If you choose to act, you must shoulder the burden of responsibility for your actions. If you cast a boulder into a river you must suffer the consequences of being splashed by the resulting wave. It seems to me that at least some of your fellow citizens, Liam, fail to understand this. And worse, these irresponsible individuals are in places of power.

Forcing an ideal onto another person or society doesn't work. I believe this lesson is learnt from the Caldari-Gallente War and more recently, the Democracy Experiment in the Minmatar Republic. You can't force an ideal and claim it to be for freedom's sake, for the very act of forcing the ideal is already denying one's freedom of choice. The most that should be done, if it needs doing at all, is to seek out those who aspire to freedom and provide the tools required to help them seize it. But as usual, be prudent, for all actions come with consequences.

Do not force. Support. And whatever you do, be prepared to face the consequences of your choice. This is the price of freedom.

I've always found it rather odd that Freedom and Liberty (which mean more or less the same thing in a political context, really) are put on a pedestal as the foremost virtues of Federal society, to be honest.

"Freedom" - Well, atleast in the Gallentean sense of the word, since it can be streched into all sorts of colourful definitions, as already demonstrated in this thread - Is really rather commonplace. You'll find in all corners of the cluster. While the State is certainly prone to greater restrictiveness on the individual as a result of the mechanics of the system and it's culture, there's still nothing really stopping a worker who has piled up enough savings (well, and moved them outside of a controlled economy, depending), or simply got lucky on the poker tables, from spending his time loafing around and indulging himself unproductively. He'd probably get a lot of nasty looks, but no one would come to arrest him.

Likewise for the Republic, which in many ways is very similar to the Federation on the ground-level. There's a lot more ingrained tradition and a very different class and societal structure, but again, you can pretty much opt out of that if you want to, assuming you have enough money or are willing to forsake a few job oppertunities. Again, you'll face a bit of social ostracisation depending on where you live, but who doesn't, really, for one reason or another?

The Empire is really the only exception, and even there 50% of the population can more or less do what they want, lack of freedom of religion notwithstanding. Including leave the Empire for the Federation - Which many do. And of course, liberty is abundant in nullsec for any frontiersmen. Possibly too abundant.

So it seems a peculiar thing to fixate on. Thus I agree with you, mister Antolliere, though perhaps for different reasons. I've always found the Imperialism of the Federation when it comes to the concept puzzling, as really, it's nothing that precious.

What from my perception makes the Federation unique in interstellar society, and what I would extol most enthusiastically were I a citizen, would be it's "institutionalized compassion", so to speak. That is, it's cultural and legal imperatives towards helping and uplifting the weak and extremely outlying, who would in most cases be unable to contribute to society conventionally, and would be "left in the snow" as the Caldari would put it. Despite the many people who will likely disagree with me, I consider this a mark of maturity, and something I believe all societies will need to move towards in time, as the advance of technology and the death of scarcity make the reasons against it increasingly arbitrary.

But to be honest, even that idea is more or less opposed to freedom itself. It's trite, but a compulsion towards generosity and kindness is still a compulsion, after all, just a benevolent one. To that effect, it almost seems like the fixation on liberty is contrary to the nations own most important values, and something that routinely inspires... Unpleasantness, in it's citizenry.

Ahh, forgive me. I'm rambling.



Lord Merdaneth (You are a holder, correct? It is sometimes difficult for me to keep track), I understand your arguement, but if I may say, judging a system by it's greatest successes and naught else is a very reliable means to get an utterly warped understanding of it's totality. It is rather akin to building a city on the side of a hill averse to a floodplain, and then after a tsunami, exclusively asking the people whose homes lie on the top of said hill if they feel they made a good investment.

Of course there are many happy and successful slaves who have achieved good positions in Amarrian society. But in my opinion, it would be better to evaluate the institution... Or, well, any institution at all, based on it's potential for corruption, for failure on a social and economic level. And slavery, which grants total power over very large numbers of people to single individuals who themselves are often not reliably evaluated, has - with all due respect - a great deal of that.

I'll spare you the usual Vitoxin and TCMC arguements.

Ah, you are just twisting my words, aren't you? Please, do tell your slaves that this pod pilot is really happy they don't take Vitoc for breakfast and a casual jettisoning for dinner. Those friends of yours you mentioned are still de-facto deprived of their culture. They will not leave any legacy behind because some empire said "My God tells me I am better than you, now bend over and work for me. Be glad I didn't kill you horribly". I mean, why would you even want to conquer Republic space, other than to get more free workers? And I don't even want to think about what those who don't operate a multi-billion water recycling plant or a chain of orphanages do. Of course they will say that they are content, their life depends on their master's whim.

Yes, I do consider abandoning my home such a minor matter, that is how I was raised. Even Caldari once did that and we got a Gallente-Caldari war, but that is a different matter, I think you know the history.


Have you ever been to zero security space? I practically live in it, helping local vigilantes to disrupt Guristas ops. You'd be amazed what conditions these filthy pirates will accept when I pin them down and demand their slaves and prisoners. Of course I then help these poor souls out. Some of them even join my crew. For others - a couple of ISK can do wonders for a commoner, and I am happy to help, just because I can.

Do feel free to take this apart, I find it convenient.

The problem I have with many 'freedom-fans' (for lack of a better term), is that they tend to oppose regulation and restriction by a government not because they think its bad, but just because they dislike the particular brand of regulation/restriction. They do not think of the restrictions of their own society as restrictions, even though they are similar in function to those of another government.

Obeying priests: bad. Obeying people with certain tribal tattoos: good
Enslaving terrorists: bad. Imprisoning terrorists: good
Whipping as punishment: bad. Firing squad as punishment: good

All societies take measures to protect their own people from those who destabilize the system and/or attempt to hurt the people living in that particular society. I'm tired of always needing to point out to those 'freedom-fans' who stand yelling ÿou society is bad because it restrict people's freedoms". These people seem unable to look behind the veil of their own society.

As for as societies go, I give high grades for stability and prosperity. If you consider the Amarr Empire, one can surely claim that the Empire has been one of the most stable and prosperous societies in recorded history. Hence their model is likely a good one. The balance the Empire has found between individual freedom and governmental regulation is stable and progressive.

I do not find this surprising, considering we have God to show us the way.