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In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE

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Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2014-10-23 15:26:37 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
That's... simplest terms?


Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others.


This is exactly true. However it doesnt include the fact that when that person does kick down your sandcastle you cant go out and break their knees for doing it. At least not in a way I find satisfying. They go hide. I personally find this to be the most frustrating thing in the game.
Valkin Mordirc
#62 - 2014-10-23 15:29:27 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
That's... simplest terms?


Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others.


This is exactly true. However it doesnt include the fact that when that person does kick down your sandcastle you cant go out and break their knees for doing it. At least not in a way I find satisfying. They go hide. I personally find this to be the most frustrating thing in the game.


Some do and some don't,


I've had plenty of corps retaliate effectively. I was apart of a corp called Deadly Fingertips at somepoint before to closed, we wardecced some alliance we noted to be around Amarr a lot.


We killed a few of there indy's and frigs.


They undocked 40 ravens on two vindicators and promptly got two 1.3bill isk killmails with no loses. I thought it was pretty ******* cool. XD 
#DeleteTheWeak
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#63 - 2014-10-23 15:31:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:

Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?

Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.

Moral codes and noble actions are culture and environment sensitive, different cultures and environments produce different rules and thus moral codes, you only have to look at the differences between cultures in the real world to see this.

Eve is a game that is advertised as a harsh, dark and dystopian environment, where you, the player, are basically an immortal demigod and content for every other player. The setting and rules in Eve are very different to their real life equivalents, as such the moral code that applies to Eve is different to the moral codes that apply in the real world.

TL;DR I don't bring my real world morals into Eve, and I don't take my Eve morals, or lack of them, into meatspace; because I can differentiate between fantasy and real life I know that they're very different places and to do so would be inappropriate.



Well said.

Now, me personally, I do kind of bring my 'morals' into the game. I don't gank or scam or war dec in high sec etc etc. I've been in 2 gank fleets for the luls that didn't get to gank anything and I'll shoot anything in low, null or wormhole space just because I can and they are there. I don't do this because doing otherwise is 'wrong' (the only 'wrong' in this game are things against the EULA), but because i don't enjoy them.

When it comes to my in game activities, I'm as "whitebread" as you can get. If we had real walking ins stations, my avatar would be seen in a robe and slippers puffing on a pipe while listening to some Nat King Cole.

The difference is that I know my preferences apply to ME and me alone. I don't try to project my personal 'moral code' on other people in game or in real life. In real life I'm not into tattooing and piercing things and various other life choices, but I look at people who are and say "well, it's not me, but you do you" and be done with it.

Others want things they don't do OUTLAWED because 'it's not right'. It's a heavy authoritarian tendency, everything must conform to their way of doing things else it's invalid.

I'll violate the "separation of game and life" rule here and say that it's a good bet that the people who don't like the fact that other people are free to do as they please in a video game probably don't like that same fact about people in the real world either.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#64 - 2014-10-23 15:34:28 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Game is fine, the people are ******. Lol


No kidding. I wouldn't accept a 'duel to hull' request if it was my own alt offering it. If I'm that much of a **** to myself, I can only imagine how people I don't know would be.

Mr Epeen Cool
Black Pedro
Mine.
#65 - 2014-10-23 15:38:58 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue.


All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.

Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.

None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.



The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Anslo
Scope Works
#66 - 2014-10-23 15:42:08 UTC
People are wrong with Eve. The bitter vets are what's wrong with Eve. It's up to people with a want to change things for the better to fix Eve.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Snakebyte Jack
AcT Legion
#67 - 2014-10-23 15:47:59 UTC
I almost broke into a smile after reading this.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#68 - 2014-10-23 15:49:38 UTC
What is really wrong with EvE, is people like the OP, who make silly mistakes, then rather than learn from it and move on, come to the forums to cry about how their gaming fun was ruined, and how the game should be changed to make it easier for them.

OP, if you were smart, you would learn from this, that trusting random people in high sec who want to duel you is silly. Trusting anyone ought to be a serious thing is this game, because it is so easy to screw people over.

Trust is something that should be earned, one step at a time. If you see a new player, do you trust that they are new? With so many alts, I don't think that many of the new players are even new. Now if you work with that newbie, for a while, you could build trust with them. But it could still be the alt of some vet, ready to stab you in the back, when you least expect it!

But all that kind of stuff makes EvE the great game is it, and is a big reason why I play it, and was a big reason I joined this game as a newbie!
Toshiro Hasegawa
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2014-10-23 15:56:36 UTC
In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE ?: nothing

History is the study of change.

Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#70 - 2014-10-23 16:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Brochan McLeod
Toshiro Hasegawa wrote:
In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE ?: nothing


Indeed!

But that was really never what i was on about...

Oh and i take my Morals everywhere i go Jenna... something more peeps should try.

Its way more of a challenge than this 'playing evil'... and way cooler stuff can come of it :)


Edit: There seem to be at least a few likeminded souls in here... so not all hope is lost yet :)

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#71 - 2014-10-23 16:09:54 UTC
On the other hand I wish there was some other profit from shooting other players then "hurr hurr I killed you and got this pretty mail and your corpse ohh sweet corpse and o hi I got this crappy loot from your wreck" aside from possible bounties that is.

Unless you go for ganking freighters and such of c. I have been thinking of bounties being tied to sec status ie. 10mil per negative sec status or some such but that would be ruined by alts unfortunately.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#72 - 2014-10-23 16:12:41 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:


All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.

Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.

None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.





This really isn't true. Highsec is designed with an infallible police force that wipes out criminals, no matter how powerful they are. Your description may be accurate for nullsec, but certainly not for highsec.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#73 - 2014-10-23 16:16:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue.


The present disaster of a game that 10s of thousands of people like to play. Some disaster.

If you actually think this, why are you still here? EVE was CONCEIVED as a game of maximum freedom and everyone knows that freedom means people not walking lock-step in politically correct ways but rather (gasp) people actually doing what they wish, when they wish. Making the choice to play a game that was BUILT on the concept of freedom when you hate other people being free (and then expecting it to change) is the new definition of insanity IMO.




I'm not sure how many people are actually playing the game. The flood of alts and bot accounts makes it difficult to discern how many unique human players there are. And from what I gather retention stats are rather poor.

I'm here because I enjoy the PvE aspects of the game, think incursions and missions, and would like to continue enjoying them. The whole concept of "freedom" is a misnomer when CCP arbitrarily determines the mechanics in highsec. Want to make agression timers 6 hours instead of 15 minutes? Want to eliminate all non-consensual pvp? Want to remove CONCORD from the game? Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Eve is only a sandbox within the arbitrary framework that CCP is continually adjusting. And I'm proud to encourage adjustments in what I consider to be a positive direction.
Anslo
Scope Works
#74 - 2014-10-23 16:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
3edgy5me bruh

Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#75 - 2014-10-23 16:30:24 UTC
I trust very few people in Eve:

1. Myself.
2. Chribba (to a point)

I trust everyone else to look after their own self interest first and foremost, and understand that if I give them the opportunity, they will (not may, but will) take advatage of that opportunity and scam me, rob me, destroy my ship and assets, or otherwise ruin my day in the name of making theirs. It is important to remember that Eve is a dystopian society, quite unlike any modern civilization in that there are no consequences to the "villian" for being a villian and no benefit to the hero for playing that role. The default assumption is that everyone is a villian until they prove otherwise.

I joke about not trusting my own alts, but the reality of it is that Eve is a game where trust cannot be freely given until it needs to be taken away - it is a game where trust should have to be earned before it is given.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#76 - 2014-10-23 16:31:37 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:


All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.

Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.

None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.





This really isn't true. Highsec is designed with an infallible police force that wipes out criminals, no matter how powerful they are. Your description may be accurate for nullsec, but certainly not for highsec.


This is a classic trait of the high sec crowd: believing EVE is some balkanized 'thing' instead of what it is; a singular whole. The rules apply everywhere, the ONLY difference is the consequences in high sec.

CONCORD does not wipe out criminals, criminals fly everyday in high sec in full view of CONCORD. The system provides a consequence for certain actions, but that's all. Guns don't magically stop working just because one is in high sec.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#77 - 2014-10-23 16:34:23 UTC
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And here I thought that nobody was fool enough to fall for that trick anymore.

There's always more new players to fall for it.


No, I meant in this day and age, where a high school degree is not an unusual thing.

No even semi educated man or woman would un-ironically fall for that one.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Valkin Mordirc
#78 - 2014-10-23 16:35:15 UTC
Anslo wrote:
3edgy5me bruh

Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides.


*Jenn aSide


Also people make EVE great. It's it dirty that make EVE great.


Without Kane, Monk, the Guiding Hand Society, EVE wouldn't be EVE.

I find it funny that become are Toxic to people who Wardec, and suspect game, before they even actually know the person. They just assume that I am out to grief because I'm a wardeccer. If I'm playing the game as intended then there should be no reason for the hate, but there is, and it's because people seem to confuse Wardeccing and the such, as griefing, which it's not.


I'm actually a fairly nice person, right up until someone decides for me that I'm a psychopath. 
#DeleteTheWeak
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#79 - 2014-10-23 16:35:27 UTC
Anslo wrote:
3edgy5me bruh

Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides.


Is that why you have a link in your sig to a blog where you advocate deliberate abuse of the petition system to try to ban people you don't like?

Yeah, the game totally needs more of you. Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#80 - 2014-10-23 16:37:09 UTC
Anslo wrote:
3edgy5me bruh

Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides.


Better for who? Do you go into biker bars in real life with flowers and literature about politeness in hopes to change things? Why not just go to the nearest knitting circle instead so you can feel at home (lol)? Who are you to decide what's 'better' for thousands of people?

What we're talking about isn't "nice" vs "Toxic". I'm nice to everyone in game because I don't try to shoot them unless they are in a position to shoot back . I simply don't expect anyone else to have to follow MY personal behavior code, because unlike some i believe in the concept of freedom (even in a video game). What others do (within the bounds of the EULA) is fair play and none of my business.

In all aspects of life their are people who belong and people who try to fit their square pegs into some round holes. don't get mad at me because you don't fit.