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In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE

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Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#41 - 2014-10-23 14:00:21 UTC
Aeon Plex wrote:
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.

I really don't understand what you expected CCP to do to prevent this. The only thing I can think that you're asking for is an area where combat has no consequences. Childish behavior exists in every video game so I don't think it will be the downfall of Eve. (Did the character have a large bounty on him?)

I do wish CCP would figure out a way to reward/bonus a white knight role so your antagonist could experience some Karma. Good vs. Evil is a powerful theme. Unfortunately, Evil has more power in Eve.
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#42 - 2014-10-23 14:00:38 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha @ OP, thinking he could trust people he barely knows to only go to hull.


ha ha ha ha....beeuurrkk...oops sorry. Oops



Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.

Its why you can be here..... lovin' boobies. Ugh

Basically a noble, though somewhat unforgiving, trait.

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#43 - 2014-10-23 14:05:28 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:


Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.




actually its called naive or gullible Blink

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#44 - 2014-10-23 14:06:13 UTC
That's... simplest terms?


Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others.
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#45 - 2014-10-23 14:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Brochan McLeod
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:


Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.




actually its called naive or gullible Blink



In your (sad?) world it probably does.

In others it can start long lasting friendships and other worthwhile things.

In the OP's case it unfortunately backfired. But bless him/her for at least giving someone that option.

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#46 - 2014-10-23 14:09:02 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
That's... simplest terms?


Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others.

indeed

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#47 - 2014-10-23 14:11:08 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
That's... simplest terms?


Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others.


Fully agree... but only because we let them :)

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Valkin Mordirc
#48 - 2014-10-23 14:14:19 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:


Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.




actually its called naive or gullible Blink



In your (sad?) world it probably does.

In others it can start long lasting friendships and other worthwhile things.

In the OP's case it unfortunately backfired. But bless him/her for at least giving someone that option.



And why is that sad?


Because what he does in the game different from the theme park you wish it to be?

Or is it because he understands what EVE is? Where you can be a villain?

Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?

Or because you think you are entitled to be left to play in your own private sandbox?

Where as the rest EVE happily plays together, Even though some might not like the castles others are building?


HTFU
#DeleteTheWeak
Athena Aideron
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-10-23 14:15:16 UTC
OP stated that this obviously immoral fellow had nothing to gain.. He got a Kill Mail which is probably the best thing ever.

Also, if you feel bad for him as a human being because of how he plays a video game then I must saddly object to your point of view. I have flown and met players from all possible lines of work in Eve, and I have never met someone that I would consider evil or sociopathic and so forth.

Hell, there's even Eve trailers adversing subversion and deceit, so yeah, there's many things "wrong" with Eve, but getting fooled is not one of them. In fact, I think it makes Eve unique.

Now what do I think is wrong in Eve? Assumptions that one is evul based on game play and those that would encourage such assumptions. True sociopaths do not play video games..

I'M not having fun until YOU'RE not having fun.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2014-10-23 14:17:48 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
The thing for me is that the way Eve itself is shaped as a game goes against the fundamental moralities we have as a society and in a sense goes against our own humanity itself. And because of that it creates something that works against the ideals we have been brought up with. Its this conflict of natures that turns off so many people to Eve imo, as not everyone can handle having their entire way of being thrown around and turned upside down. The few that can; stay, and the even fewer thrive in that sort of a system.

To me its this disconnect with the world around us that has been the reason that Eves numbers stay so low. As the darkness thats within the human soul is evident in everyday life, media tells us daily of the atrocities committed world wide. We shudder and think how horrible it is even if it hasnt happened directly to us but more importantly we believe that the unjust, evil people will be punished. In Eve there is none of that punishment or justice happening. The game itself is built to allow freely what societies worldwide try to remove from within its ranks.

That is imo what makes Eve what it is and what makes it so unique in the gaming world.


Close and connects to my earlier post - there are no (completely insufficient) consequences in EVE. Players play EVE as they would conduct RL, if RL had the same 'sandbox' as EVE.

What's particularly wrong with EVE - especially now - is that the Predator v Prey ratio is so skewed. Make EVE a bit more of a simulation and less gamey and more people may wish to play and believe they have a chance - taking the risk because indeed EVE <> RL.

More actual players means more potential prey to support the predator population.

Goodness, we have to eventually leave this little planet of ours - a space-based game that actually encouraged that interest, in the most realistic way possible, would help the entire human race!Big smile -> EVE2.......

EVE would then be the most comprehensive Beta Test ever run. I wonder how many new players would actually be interested if EVE were actually to restart?

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#51 - 2014-10-23 14:35:11 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:

If you want a 'fair' duel, or just one to test out fits, stick with corpmates / alliancemembers & friends to test stuff like that out. Don't rely on total strangers to keep their word, that'll get you killed/scammed, just like in reality (but in EvE it's just pixels)


I'm happy to live in a place where people are far more trustworthy than they are in Eve.

And I feel sorry for you if you live in a place where people are like players in Eve.

I mean, fine in a game.... but in RL....???
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#52 - 2014-10-23 14:41:09 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:


In your (sad?) world it probably does.

why ? did i miss a memo about strangers on the internet at some point ?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#53 - 2014-10-23 14:44:25 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:


Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.




actually its called naive or gullible Blink



In your (sad?) world it probably does.

In others it can start long lasting friendships and other worthwhile things.

In the OP's case it unfortunately backfired. But bless him/her for at least giving someone that option.



And why is that sad?


Because what he does in the game different from the theme park you wish it to be?

Or is it because he understands what EVE is? Where you can be a villain?

Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?

Or because you think you are entitled to be left to play in your own private sandbox?

Where as the rest EVE happily plays together, Even though some might not like the castles others are building?


HTFU


If you need me to explain you why that is sad ... then thats even more sad... i weep for you.

Because what he does in the game different from the theme park you wish it to be?

I have never said this game needed to be changed... if i did i apologise. Its PEOPLE that, i think, need to change.
If you dont understand why or need an example.... look at the news and around you. And yes i understand this is a game but chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.

Or is it because he understands what EVE is? Where you can be a villain?

I understand EVE perfectly thank you... i too think its great if you can PLAY the villain.

Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?

Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.

Or because you think you are entitled to be left to play in your own private sandbox?

I dont feel entitled to anything... really. The game is fine as is... its people screwing other people over (not PvP) and calling it okay just because they can. Its your sense of whats right and wrong that should steer your actions...

Jeez how do you explain that... if you dont get that by now you probably never will. Sad

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#54 - 2014-10-23 14:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Quote:
that works against the ideals we have been brought up with.


Oh really? Someone forces those people to shot others in the face, or to scam them, or make them look miserable? Or maybe it isn't game or you, but some evil spirit take control of your mind? Twisted

New player that tries in vain to get something from data sites in low, just to see how veteran is passing by in Astero who flips him a finger and says HTFU.

And second one veteran player fills the new guy wallet with 50 M ISK for more ships to lose.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#55 - 2014-10-23 14:56:48 UTC
Reiisha wrote:


I'm with the OP. Most people always take the 'it's part of the game' stance (especially the ones actively engaging in such things), but no one seems to care that this drives off a lot of people who would otherwise be happily playing along.


People take that stance because it is the correct one. You are playing a competitive game. A non-competitive game would not allow such behavior.. The CHOICE to play a competitive game comes with the CONSEQUENCE of being competed against.

I don't try to chase people out of the game, but I'm glad that others do, because if a person can't deal with 100% inconsequential and totally irrelevant (in the grand scheme of things) loss of imaginary items, they should not be playing a video game in the 1st place.

I for one like that most of the people who I'm playing with/against in this game are not the over-sensitive weaklings found in every other online game I've played. As a corp mate once said of this very situation: You don't go to a freaking Biker Bar for tea, crumpets and polite conversation.

EVE is a virtual biker bar.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#56 - 2014-10-23 15:02:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE is a virtual biker bar.


Its Sodom and Gomorrah, but there are still polite people inside, strangely. Shocked

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#57 - 2014-10-23 15:08:57 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:

chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.

^^
difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions.

you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#58 - 2014-10-23 15:11:35 UTC
Brochan McLeod wrote:

Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?

Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.

Moral codes and noble actions are culture and environment sensitive, different cultures and environments produce different rules and thus moral codes, you only have to look at the differences between cultures in the real world to see this.

Eve is a game that is advertised as a harsh, dark and dystopian environment, where you, the player, are basically an immortal demigod and content for every other player. The setting and rules in Eve are very different to their real life equivalents, as such the moral code that applies to Eve is different to the moral codes that apply in the real world.

TL;DR I don't bring my real world morals into Eve, and I don't take my Eve morals, or lack of them, into meatspace; because I can differentiate between fantasy and real life I know that they're very different places and to do so would be inappropriate.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#59 - 2014-10-23 15:14:40 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue.


The present disaster of a game that 10s of thousands of people like to play. Some disaster.

If you actually think this, why are you still here? EVE was CONCEIVED as a game of maximum freedom and everyone knows that freedom means people not walking lock-step in politically correct ways but rather (gasp) people actually doing what they wish, when they wish. Making the choice to play a game that was BUILT on the concept of freedom when you hate other people being free (and then expecting it to change) is the new definition of insanity IMO.
Valkin Mordirc
#60 - 2014-10-23 15:17:06 UTC
Quote:
Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?

Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.



The fact the you bring Real Life concepts into a video game, should be worrying.
The fact that you can't differentiate actions in a video game, and actions in real life, is worrying.
The fact that you think that Video game action translate into real life behaviour or attitude. Is worrying.


Just because I play Call Of Duty doesn't mean I will join the military and go on a giant illegal escapade,

Just because I play Skyrim doesn't mean I will learn how to sword fight.

Just because I play Hitman doesn't mean I want to become an assassin.


Also due to the fact that you think people in real life, are honourable and noble is gullible,
#DeleteTheWeak