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[Phoebe] Heavy Interdictors

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#281 - 2014-10-23 14:20:28 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread. Thanks for the feedback so far.

A number of the suggestions posted here (allowing hictors to prevent interceptors from warping, allowing focused points to stop all ships from jumping, allowing focused points to stop ships from docking) would unbalance the game too far towards inescapable camps. We have absolutely no intention of making any of those changes at this time.

I'm noticing a fair bit of consternation at the fact that the Devoter is getting a small dronebay but the Phobos is not. The optimal bonus on the Phobos has also been raising some eyebrows.
The key thing that these players are missing is the distinctive flavour we are working towards giving the entire Roden Shipyards line. The old design for Roden Shipyards was focused on a fairly watered down use of missiles and hybrids. This left them in an underwhelming place compared to the other two Gallente T2 corps.

In the new world order for Gallente T2 ships, each manufacturer has a clear set of strengths and a unifying theme:

Duvolle Labs ships are the perfect blasterboats, tending towards lots of damage bonuses (often both RoF and Damage on the same hull) and falloff bonuses. Duvolle ships tend to be among the faster Gallente T2 ships to help them get into range, and sport robust unbonused dronebays as a secondary weapon.

Creodron ships are specialized droneboats, as befits a line of vessels constructed by a company that makes most of its money from drones. These guys tend to have the most drone bandwidth, and the best drone bonuses.

Roden Shipyards ships can be used as effective blasterboats, but tend to lean towards railguns with big bonuses to hybrid optimal range and tracking. They are a bit slower than Duvolle ships, and have the weakest drone capability of all the Gallente ships, but they tend to have more low slots and more armor HP, as well as better sensors.


Then give them the fitting to actually fit a tank and rails!


Learn to fit armor ships buddy. Blink

I swear, everyone in EVE today should be forced to go back in time and fly a pulse RR geddon from 2009. Builds character (and creative fitting skills).

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#282 - 2014-10-23 14:21:04 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
sounds like the enyo needs some changes too match the roden shipyards new approach or made too duvolle labs .. which would be better it could use the extra speed and more drones


Take a look at the Enyo's bonuses. It is the archetype for the new Roden.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#283 - 2014-10-23 14:29:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread. Thanks for the feedback so far.

A number of the suggestions posted here (allowing hictors to prevent interceptors from warping, allowing focused points to stop all ships from jumping, allowing focused points to stop ships from docking) would unbalance the game too far towards inescapable camps. We have absolutely no intention of making any of those changes at this time.

I'm noticing a fair bit of consternation at the fact that the Devoter is getting a small dronebay but the Phobos is not. The optimal bonus on the Phobos has also been raising some eyebrows.
The key thing that these players are missing is the distinctive flavour we are working towards giving the entire Roden Shipyards line. The old design for Roden Shipyards was focused on a fairly watered down use of missiles and hybrids. This left them in an underwhelming place compared to the other two Gallente T2 corps.

In the new world order for Gallente T2 ships, each manufacturer has a clear set of strengths and a unifying theme:

Duvolle Labs ships are the perfect blasterboats, tending towards lots of damage bonuses (often both RoF and Damage on the same hull) and falloff bonuses. Duvolle ships tend to be among the faster Gallente T2 ships to help them get into range, and sport robust unbonused dronebays as a secondary weapon.

Creodron ships are specialized droneboats, as befits a line of vessels constructed by a company that makes most of its money from drones. These guys tend to have the most drone bandwidth, and the best drone bonuses.

Roden Shipyards ships can be used as effective blasterboats, but tend to lean towards railguns with big bonuses to hybrid optimal range and tracking. They are a bit slower than Duvolle ships, and have the weakest drone capability of all the Gallente ships, but they tend to have more low slots and more armor HP, as well as better sensors.


Then give them the fitting to actually fit a tank and rails!


Learn to fit armor ships buddy. Blink

I swear, everyone in EVE today should be forced to go back in time and fly a pulse RR geddon from 2009. Builds character (and creative fitting skills).


To fit even dual 150's you have to make way too many trade-offs. And this isn't just on this ship, it is across all Gallente ships that try and fit armor tanks and rails. Shields+rails have very little trade-offs to make.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#284 - 2014-10-23 14:32:00 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
sounds like the enyo needs some changes too match the roden shipyards new approach or made too duvolle labs .. which would be better it could use the extra speed and more drones


Take a look at the Enyo's bonuses. It is the archetype for the new Roden.


mm.. it still has only 4 lows the same as the ishkur .. which needs some refocusing of its bonuses

i would think switching the high for a low on the enyo might do it and a 10% tracking bonus

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#285 - 2014-10-23 14:37:21 UTC
also talking about the creodron having the best drone bonuses .. the gurista ships might have a word about that ..
have you seen the amount of dps you can get out of those things ... gila - over 900 dps tracks just aswell as the ishtars heavies do ..

worm is so much better than the ishkur .. over 300 dps same application

and the rattlesnake has insane dps over 2k fits are easy too make ..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#286 - 2014-10-23 14:39:09 UTC
The issue is weapons. Most people tend to fit dual bubbles, cloak/probe launcher, etc. we need to lead people away from this, and also make the heavy dictor have a defined role for people to consider.

I would do this in total:
Remove 1 highslot from every dictor, and put it in the middle.
Move the interdiction bubble item from being a highslot, to being a mid slot.

You now give people actual choices on how to fit the dictor.
Yes you can fit a onyx and broadsword with a rediculous tank, but it wouldn't do much without its interdiction bubble.

People would be "tempted" to fit guns on these ships as the bubble is now a midslot. Choices between tank, cap boosters, sensor boosters would have to be made,

Do I fit more tank on an onyx or put a cap booster
Do I fit a eccm, or a sensor booster, do I fit 2 bubbles, or do I fit propulsion, do I put stronger guns on it, fit an active tank, fit a scrambler or a web on it?

You give pilots choices by moving a highslot to a mid, and making the interdiction bubble a midslot item.

Yaay!!!!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#287 - 2014-10-23 14:41:12 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
The issue is weapons. Most people tend to fit dual bubbles, cloak/probe launcher, etc. we need to lead people away from this, and also make the heavy dictor have a defined role for people to consider.

I would do this in total:
Remove 1 highslot from every dictor, and put it in the middle.
Move the interdiction bubble item from being a highslot, to being a mid slot.

You now give people actual choices on how to fit the dictor.
Yes you can fit a onyx and broadsword with a rediculous tank, but it wouldn't do much without its interdiction bubble.

People would be "tempted" to fit guns on these ships as the bubble is now a midslot. Choices between tank, cap boosters, sensor boosters would have to be made,

Do I fit more tank on an onyx or put a cap booster
Do I fit a eccm, or a sensor booster, do I fit 2 bubbles, or do I fit propulsion, do I put stronger guns on it, fit an active tank, fit a scrambler or a web on it?

You give pilots choices by moving a highslot to a mid, and making the interdiction bubble a midslot item.


or make them 1 bubble per ship like the interdictors got.. perhaps give them double damage bonuses and allow a further utility slot

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#288 - 2014-10-23 14:41:40 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread. Thanks for the feedback so far.

A number of the suggestions posted here (allowing hictors to prevent interceptors from warping, allowing focused points to stop all ships from jumping, allowing focused points to stop ships from docking) would unbalance the game too far towards inescapable camps. We have absolutely no intention of making any of those changes at this time.

I'm noticing a fair bit of consternation at the fact that the Devoter is getting a small dronebay but the Phobos is not. The optimal bonus on the Phobos has also been raising some eyebrows.
The key thing that these players are missing is the distinctive flavour we are working towards giving the entire Roden Shipyards line. The old design for Roden Shipyards was focused on a fairly watered down use of missiles and hybrids. This left them in an underwhelming place compared to the other two Gallente T2 corps.

In the new world order for Gallente T2 ships, each manufacturer has a clear set of strengths and a unifying theme:

Duvolle Labs ships are the perfect blasterboats, tending towards lots of damage bonuses (often both RoF and Damage on the same hull) and falloff bonuses. Duvolle ships tend to be among the faster Gallente T2 ships to help them get into range, and sport robust unbonused dronebays as a secondary weapon.

Creodron ships are specialized droneboats, as befits a line of vessels constructed by a company that makes most of its money from drones. These guys tend to have the most drone bandwidth, and the best drone bonuses.

Roden Shipyards ships can be used as effective blasterboats, but tend to lean towards railguns with big bonuses to hybrid optimal range and tracking. They are a bit slower than Duvolle ships, and have the weakest drone capability of all the Gallente ships, but they tend to have more low slots and more armor HP, as well as better sensors.


Then give them the fitting to actually fit a tank and rails!


Learn to fit armor ships buddy. Blink

I swear, everyone in EVE today should be forced to go back in time and fly a pulse RR geddon from 2009. Builds character (and creative fitting skills).


To fit even dual 150's you have to make way too many trade-offs. And this isn't just on this ship, it is across all Gallente ships that try and fit armor tanks and rails. Shields+rails have very little trade-offs to make.


I take that back. The only ships that can fit Rails and a decent tank are the Brutix Navy Issue and the Megathron. All others have to be glass cannons without the cannon.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#289 - 2014-10-23 15:03:03 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
sounds like the enyo needs some changes too match the roden shipyards new approach or made too duvolle labs .. which would be better it could use the extra speed and more drones


Take a look at the Enyo's bonuses. It is the archetype for the new Roden.

Would you be able/willing to look at the Ishkur again, it bonused are very old style and drone damage is outclassed by its potential turret damage.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#290 - 2014-10-23 15:28:46 UTC
The issue with a single bubble is that the bubble itself performs two roles, one being just a giant mobile bubble, the other being a infinite point. I've pretty regularly have had to have Both a bubble up and a point going. In lowsec this would matter even more as you'll need multiple points to keep certain pilots from leaving field.

It's also why I think it should be a middle slot item vs a highslot. You want the weapon systems to be viable, remove the module that gobbles up its highslot and move it .

Yaay!!!!
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#291 - 2014-10-23 15:46:17 UTC
For extra flapjacks, the heavy interdictor should probably be able to do the following also.

1) bonus to expanded probe launchers (give them the ability to combat probe), not everybody would use it but would be interesting to have a non covops ship the ability to combat probe.
2) a energy matrix destabilizer script for the t2 interdiction module. Put script in, activate bubble. Bubble is created, does not prevent warping, destabilizes all cloaking devices in the range of the bubble.

The heavy interdictor can now probe, hunt, decloak people, tank and possibly dps.

It would be the first ever actual counter to a cloaking device in the game, relegated to pilots who have graviton 5, and a heavy interdictor.

Issues: ther would be a heavy interdictor at every gatecamp in existence with that module always on.
Not much different than a bubble on a gate with a few inline cans.

It's an odd idea. I know people don't want decloaking modules, but a specialized one for this ship... I see it as an option. It probably needs to be hashed out a little more.

Yaay!!!!
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#292 - 2014-10-23 15:51:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread.


Slightly unrelated, but since I couldn't make it to Vegas, could you please comment on this?

CCP Greyscale wrote:
xttz wrote:
Your initial blog mentioned a rebalance of starbase weapons, but there's been no word on them since then. Is it still planned for the next update?


I'm not entirely sure what the status is on that, it's something Fozzie was investigating. Your best bet at a fast answer is to find someone at Vegas and get them to ask him :)
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#293 - 2014-10-23 15:53:36 UTC
so these are still going to just be maxtank shitfits, right?

and this duvolle/roden thing is pretty weak. roden seems to just mean bad. why do I particularly want falloff or optimal bonuses on weapons with approx half optimal and half falloff? this isn't like lasers or projectiles at all. it's pretty much just a much less valuable bonus.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#294 - 2014-10-23 16:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
xttz wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread.


Slightly unrelated, but since I couldn't make it to Vegas, could you please comment on this?

CCP Greyscale wrote:
xttz wrote:
Your initial blog mentioned a rebalance of starbase weapons, but there's been no word on them since then. Is it still planned for the next update?


I'm not entirely sure what the status is on that, it's something Fozzie was investigating. Your best bet at a fast answer is to find someone at Vegas and get them to ask him :)


We've ran into some issues that aren't deal breakers but that do require more QA time, so we just made the call today to push those changes to December and allow us more testing time.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#295 - 2014-10-23 16:41:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I'm noticing a fair bit of consternation at the fact that the Devoter is getting a small dronebay but the Phobos is not.


Actually its a consternation for other races too...

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#296 - 2014-10-23 17:31:58 UTC
Would you consider tracking bonus in place of falloff bonus on broadsword. I cant see this hull really utilizing the falloff. Too slow to kite or keep range to apply half of its dps. Id rather see it with tracking to make a decent minny brawler, since minny have very few good brawlers. Plus it makes artillery an option.

Speaking of artillery.. for the love of eve, can artillery fitting on small/medium turrets be looked at? Its rediculous that i have to fit 1-2 fitting mods and implants to fit muninn/jaguar with artillery and a single MSE or LSE.

It would be nice if artillery could be a legit weapon system like rails. Since right now every arty ship i see is either a nado or instalock cane sitting on a gate camp. All that needs to change is fitting, its fine on RoF and damage. Also, not talking large arty, fitting is good for that.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#297 - 2014-10-23 17:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
CCP Fozzie wrote:

A number of the suggestions posted here (allowing hictors to prevent interceptors from warping, allowing focused points to stop all ships from jumping, allowing focused points to stop ships from docking) would unbalance the game too far towards inescapable camps. We have absolutely no intention of making any of those changes at this time.


I think people would be happy with HIC bubble preventing interdiction nullification. But it would be imbalanced I am sure since 8/9.6/11 au/s a second, bubble immunity, and 120 DPS is not overpowered at all nor is a 30km point that can out kite anything.

neither is the ability for an extremely buffer tanked ship able to bypass bubbles and warp cloaked and deal a 300 plus DPS with the room for utility high slots is not over powered.

However deep space transports, whom align slowly, cannot warp cloaked, and have almost no offensive capabilities cannot have interdiction nullification because it is:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity


Honestly.....


edited for grammar
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#298 - 2014-10-23 17:42:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread. Thanks for the feedback so far.

A number of the suggestions posted here (allowing hictors to prevent interceptors from warping, allowing focused points to stop all ships from jumping, allowing focused points to stop ships from docking) would unbalance the game too far towards inescapable camps. We have absolutely no intention of making any of those changes at this time.


So basically break the game for caps, but don't allow caps to break sub-cap PvP.

Kthnx.

Who wants my stuff?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#299 - 2014-10-23 17:56:53 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread. Thanks for the feedback so far.

A number of the suggestions posted here (allowing hictors to prevent interceptors from warping, allowing focused points to stop all ships from jumping, allowing focused points to stop ships from docking) would unbalance the game too far towards inescapable camps. We have absolutely no intention of making any of those changes at this time.


So basically break the game for caps, but don't allow caps to break sub-cap PvP.

Kthnx.

Who wants my stuff?


Ill take it. Jump it to LS before jump changes though..

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#300 - 2014-10-23 17:59:18 UTC
Archetype 66 wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Devoter

Amarr Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage

Heavy Interdictor Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range
5% bonus to range of Warp Disruption Fields

Role Bonus:
20% bonus to all Armor Resists
Can fit Warp Disruption Field Generators

Onyx

Caldari Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Kinetic la Missile damage
5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire

Heavy Interdictor Bonuses:
10% bonus to Missile velocity
5% bonus to range of Warp Disruption Fields

Role Bonus:
20% bonus to all Shield Resists
Can fit Warp Disruption Field Generators

Phobos

Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret rate of fire

Heavy Interdictor Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
5% bonus to range of Warp Disruption Fields

Role Bonus:
20% bonus to all Armor Resists
Can fit Warp Disruption Field Generators

Broadsword

Minmatar Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage

Heavy Interdictor Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
5% bonus to range of Warp Disruption Fields

Role Bonus:
20% bonus to all Shield Resists
Can fit Warp Disruption Field Generators

Let us know what you think!


Hey Fozzie,

Why setting the second dmg bonus on the Cruiser skill ? Why not set it the same way most other TII (CSs, HACs for example).

That would make more sense to have first dmg bonus + range on Cruiser skill so that every HIC pilot would have the same range, and to switch the second dmg bonus on HIC skill, to reward HIC IV -> HIC V.

HIV lvl V need a better reward (RoF would be cool since it's the bigger).


Did you read this by any chance ?