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Can we cut drone bandwidth across the board?
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Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-10-23 10:49:54 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
Damen Apol wrote:
The problem with drones is that Capital ships can alpha frigates off field.

Sentry drones need a looking at.



so can tornados.

let's cut arty's dps in half.


wtf you guys talking about, come on.



/signed, a frigate pilot


Fret Thiesant wrote:
[quote=Bronson Hughes]

Though I would like to know why a ------- Worm gets a drone damage bonus and my Ishkur doesn't. And the Worm goes faster. And uses missiles meaning you can apply full high slot dps from range no matter your speed.


Because a worm can fly 2 drones only and your ishkur 5. Because it's not an AF, and because it's generally shield tanked, vs the typical armor brick ishkur. Btw worm is quite slow for a frig. Becaue missile dps on a worm is crap anyway, to the point it generally fits 2 only to save cpu and grid for more important stuff. Because it's a 90 mils hull unlike your ishkur.


Price has nothing to do with balance. The other pirate frigs have a major disadvantage to go with their advantage. Worm has a minor disadvantage to go with its major advantages.

I'm sorry I dont see that many Ishkur's. Maybe you do. Maybe you fly them regularly. I don't know. Right now I don't see the advantage to flying one over any other af though. Pretty much any role it can perform another AF can do the same thing much better. Or an Algos.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#22 - 2014-10-23 11:26:55 UTC
Fret Thiesant wrote:
Though I would like to know why a ------- Worm gets a drone damage bonus and my Ishkur doesn't.

The better question is why a Tristan, a Tristan, gets a drone damage bonus and the Ishkur doesn't.

Ishkur is seriously borked ATM.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#23 - 2014-10-23 11:49:37 UTC
Bandwidth is fine - but Drone Bays need to be properly considered to be part of the ships 'Fitting'. Drone ships need to be more heavily penalised in terms of CPU/PG in order to balance their offensive abilities.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-10-23 11:53:23 UTC
Fret Thiesant wrote:
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
Damen Apol wrote:
The problem with drones is that Capital ships can alpha frigates off field.

Sentry drones need a looking at.



so can tornados.

let's cut arty's dps in half.


wtf you guys talking about, come on.



/signed, a frigate pilot


Fret Thiesant wrote:
[quote=Bronson Hughes]

Though I would like to know why a ------- Worm gets a drone damage bonus and my Ishkur doesn't. And the Worm goes faster. And uses missiles meaning you can apply full high slot dps from range no matter your speed.


Because a worm can fly 2 drones only and your ishkur 5. Because it's not an AF, and because it's generally shield tanked, vs the typical armor brick ishkur. Btw worm is quite slow for a frig. Becaue missile dps on a worm is crap anyway, to the point it generally fits 2 only to save cpu and grid for more important stuff. Because it's a 90 mils hull unlike your ishkur.


Price has nothing to do with balance. The other pirate frigs have a major disadvantage to go with their advantage. Worm has a minor disadvantage to go with its major advantages.

I'm sorry I dont see that many Ishkur's. Maybe you do. Maybe you fly them regularly. I don't know. Right now I don't see the advantage to flying one over any other af though. Pretty much any role it can perform another AF can do the same thing much better. Or an Algos.


Of course price has to do with balance. You can't expect a pirate frig to perform as the rest. It would be like complaining that a comet is superior to a atron, well no ****.

Sorry, but that's at best a problem with the Ishkur, if there even is one. By the way, i consider it a very strong AF, you don't see many of them because it's not suited for AF doctrines, but as a solo boat it's definately top tier among the AFs.


Worm compared to other pirate frigs? Well, the dramiel is in a bad place right now, not worth the price tag most of the time.

Let's look at the others.

- Daredevil. Massive damage, best range control possible with 90% web, decent tank (can get 6.8k ehp easy while keeping mad dps), fast as ****, can be an absolute beastly brawler or kiter. Load void and enjoy 400+ real dps or use rails and sit at 13 shooting at a pretty much stationary target. 10/10

- Succubus. Great range control, can pretty much disengage at will, great dps in scram range, good tank. Drawback? Uhm... vulnerable cap warfare...? Nope, can sit comfortably out of small neuts and non deadspace nos range. Tank? Not really, it's just perfect for what it does and as said if things go south disengaging is quite easy

- Garmur. Do i even need to explain?

- Cruor. Say goodbye to your cap lol.

- Worm. Very good dps, not daredevil tier, but very good, undeniable. Applied dps is lower than when EFT warrioring because drones do miss quite a bit while with turrets and correct piloting you have perfect application. I'd say it's a little mroe than a succubus. Very good tank. Poor range control. Slow unless nanofit, which hinders tank and cap life is pretty terrible without cap booster, which costs a very precious mid

Is the worm scary? **** yes it is, but just as are the other pirate frigs (dram to a lesser extent, as said) if you're in a normal hull
Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-10-23 12:39:23 UTC
Again how often do you fly this very strong AF?

I am guessing never. Because a Jag or Hawk or Vengence will do whatever it is you are trying to do in that Ishkur flat out better. For fleets you'd go with an Enyo because it can melt face....

It was a great little boat way back when sure. And I still fly one usually with an odd ball fit every now and than because I like flying odd ball ships. But it needs a rework.

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#26 - 2014-10-24 11:20:47 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Fret Thiesant wrote:
Though I would like to know why a ------- Worm gets a drone damage bonus and my Ishkur doesn't.

The better question is why a Tristan, a Tristan, gets a drone damage bonus and the Ishkur doesn't.

Ishkur is seriously borked ATM.

It doesn't...
It gets a tracking and hitpoints bonus not a damage bonus. (You might wish to argue that a damage application bonus is a damage bonus but...)
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#27 - 2014-10-24 11:54:53 UTC
Fret Thiesant wrote:
Though I would like to know why a ------- Worm gets a drone damage bonus and my Ishkur doesn't. And the Worm goes faster. And uses missiles meaning you can apply full high slot dps from range no matter your speed.


Fret Thiesant wrote:
Price has nothing to do with balance. The other pirate frigs have a major disadvantage to go with their advantage. Worm has a minor disadvantage to go with its major advantages.

Pirate ships are supposed to be better than T2 in many regards, and the Worm is unique among frigates in having an actual drone damage bonus (capable of doing more drone damage that 5 unbonused lights). (IIRC)
The Worm lacks the Ishkur's sig bonus - so if it is faster then it's also bigger and easier to hit - and it uses missiles meaning that its own movement has no effect on its applies DPS, though the targets movement arguably has a greater effect (in that it is more difficult to mitigate the target's movement).
Price is not a useful balance point - but the materials costs of the Worm is lower than that of the Ishkur... The market price of the ships is the result of the other balance considerations. The supply of Worms is more limited and more directly under CCPs control, the fact that the Worm is a little better than the Ishkur means that demand is higher... The market price is not a restriction but an indicator.

I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about disadvantages though - the Daredevil has 6 guns and a 90% web, the Cruor gets old style Nos... Where's the disadvantage?
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