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Missions & Complexes

 
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Planning out my mission characters, looking for advice.
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Medicus Forumpost
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-12-13 21:44:37 UTC
I'm still fairly new to the game, I have been reading everything possible to get up to speed on game mechanics, and currently I'm trying to set up an easy, steady income source from missioning.

I have 2 accounts, one is a Caldari pilot in a Drake, with decent missile, shield and T2 light drone skills. My second account is a Gallente pilot in a Dominix with decent armor skills, mostly focused in drones, training t2 sentries, almost no weapon training at all for any ship right now.

My current plan was to have two l4 mission runners running individually. My main objective was to set up one pilot with a mid/heavy tanked ship that will get a smaller amount of attention on a second monitor, and a ship that I will give most of my attention to on my primary monitor in an attempt to maximize isk/hour. I am a min/maxer at heart and it's hard to shake that when it comes to picking out a mission ship.

My current plan was this:

Caldari pilot: Drake -> train into a Tengu with HM V, but no spec, use faction launchers and T1 faction ammo -> train into a Machariel, use both ships depending on the mission.

Gallente pilot: Dominix w/ T1 sentries -> train into a Rattlesnake with F.o.F. cruises and T2 sentries -> ??? Not sure where to go from here

First thing, is this a dumb idea? Running two individual l4's at once? Would it be more efficient to run them both in the same mission at once? To me that just seemed like a huge pain to individually lock and fire on two characters at once and hope they don't overlap, and the general logistics of adds targeting whichever ship they want so I have to warp one out or fit both of them with proper tanks and lose dps since I won't be speed kiting, etc.

Are there better ship options I could look at? Is there a more logical ship progression that would end up running safer/faster? I see a lot of marauders but I'm 3 months from even FLYING one, let alone training T2 guns and proper support skills for any of them, so that's not really an option to me (for now), pirate faction seems to have the strongest alternatives to marauders.

Sorry for the novel, this game really has no mercy for new people starting this late in, I am trying to research as much as I can on my own but external input on something like this is greatly appreciated.


Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2011-12-13 22:30:00 UTC
Medicus Forumpost wrote:
... I'm trying to set up an easy, steady income source from missioning.


Mission-running can provide a steady income. Incursions can provide a better income and is pretty reliable, but I think your approach of first establishing solid mission-running skilsl and resources is a sensible one.

Medicus Forumpost wrote:
First thing, is this a dumb idea? Running two individual l4's at once? Would it be more efficient to run them both in the same mission at once?


Not at all a dumb idea, however ....

I have two solid mission running toons that can individually cope with the toughest lvl4s. I've tried running two missions in tandem, with one of them in each, but now usually have them both running the same mission site. It's arguably better isk-per-picosecond running two separate missions, but I prefer to have them both in the same site ... less confusing for my brain.

Medicus Forumpost wrote:
Are there better ship options I could look at? Is there a more logical ship progression that would end up running safer/faster?


There are eternal arguments about best ships for mission running and mission-running pairs etc.

A solid skillbase rattlesnake is a good mission runner. I use one in lvl4s and in c3/4 w-space. A drake => tengu is also a very good mission runner. I often use a 'snake / tengu pair, with the tengu first picking off the little guys whiel the 'snake hassles the big fellows.

Alternatives? In my experience a machariel completes lvl4s more quickly. The downside is that a mach needs to be more actively piloted and is not as fire-and-forget as the uber-tank tengu / 'snake. The upside is that the mach is fun and a sexy looking ship all the way. I have no experience with lasers but suspect, based on watching them in incursions, that a nightmare is prolly a bit like a mach in that respect.

In your case there's nothing wrong with first bolstering your missile skills to T2 cruises, then your drones to t2 sentries, and then (unless some other venture grabs your attention) working towards large T2 autocannons for a mach / vargur. Don't forget the support skills though, they make a big difference.

Other forum-dwellers will, of course, have other views :-)

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
#3 - 2011-12-13 22:43:08 UTC
in time i would upgrade your domi to a rattlesnake

the thing with missions however is that a certain % of your income is from salvage/loot not just bounties.

with that in mind I found it easier to just use the 2nd account to follow me around in a noctis. once you get your machariel you can kill most rats as fast or faster than you can salvage in a noctis anyway.
Medicus Forumpost
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-12-13 22:50:33 UTC
Elindreal wrote:
in time i would upgrade your domi to a rattlesnake

the thing with missions however is that a certain % of your income is from salvage/loot not just bounties.

with that in mind I found it easier to just use the 2nd account to follow me around in a noctis. once you get your machariel you can kill most rats as fast or faster than you can salvage in a noctis anyway.


This account is for reprocessing/salvaging in a noctis/manufacturing.
Spineker
#5 - 2011-12-13 23:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Quote:
Caldari pilot: Drake -> train into a Tengu with HM V, but no spec, use faction launchers and T1 faction ammo -> train into a Machariel, use both ships depending on the mission.



No don't do that. Spec to IV and use Rage Scourge heavy missiles. Even on enemies that are not weak two Kinetic will melt like Darkanas etc. Faction missiles are over priced because of the broken LP stores, they cost over 2 times what a rage cost and a rage is 10 times more than a standard scourge missile cost. The very little benefit from Faction is removed when considering damage to larger ships like BS. Standard missiles will do just as well on smaller targets as faction they just don't hit for as much.

I run two Tengu's and one generally is running standard missiles and the other Rage missiles. This works well because my main screen has the standard and I take out the smaller ships frigs and cruisers. the other screen is the heavier DPS T2 missile and it takes out BS's. No wasting missiles on frigs and such unless it is needed in heavy frig missions. Even with Rage can one shot some Gurista interceptors at range and standard missile easily takes out Spider I and Spider II drones. Throw a few percisions in the trunk incase they are needed.


Consider this, each time you fire your grouped launchers on a Tengu

Standard Missile: 300isk
T2 Fury Missile: 3000isk
Faction Missile: 6000isk

Each cycle. Most frigs will cost youisk to kill them if they have a bounty with Faction.
Goose99
#6 - 2011-12-13 23:20:35 UTC
Medicus Forumpost wrote:
I'm still fairly new to the game, I have been reading everything possible to get up to speed on game mechanics, and currently I'm trying to set up an easy, steady income source from missioning.

I have 2 accounts, one is a Caldari pilot in a Drake, with decent missile, shield and T2 light drone skills. My second account is a Gallente pilot in a Dominix with decent armor skills, mostly focused in drones, training t2 sentries, almost no weapon training at all for any ship right now.

My current plan was to have two l4 mission runners running individually. My main objective was to set up one pilot with a mid/heavy tanked ship that will get a smaller amount of attention on a second monitor, and a ship that I will give most of my attention to on my primary monitor in an attempt to maximize isk/hour. I am a min/maxer at heart and it's hard to shake that when it comes to picking out a mission ship.

My current plan was this:

Caldari pilot: Drake -> train into a Tengu with HM V, but no spec, use faction launchers and T1 faction ammo -> train into a Machariel, use both ships depending on the mission.

Gallente pilot: Dominix w/ T1 sentries -> train into a Rattlesnake with F.o.F. cruises and T2 sentries -> ??? Not sure where to go from here

First thing, is this a dumb idea? Running two individual l4's at once? Would it be more efficient to run them both in the same mission at once? To me that just seemed like a huge pain to individually lock and fire on two characters at once and hope they don't overlap, and the general logistics of adds targeting whichever ship they want so I have to warp one out or fit both of them with proper tanks and lose dps since I won't be speed kiting, etc.

Are there better ship options I could look at? Is there a more logical ship progression that would end up running safer/faster? I see a lot of marauders but I'm 3 months from even FLYING one, let alone training T2 guns and proper support skills for any of them, so that's not really an option to me (for now), pirate faction seems to have the strongest alternatives to marauders.

Sorry for the novel, this game really has no mercy for new people starting this late in, I am trying to research as much as I can on my own but external input on something like this is greatly appreciated.




Keep in mind that t3 prerequisite isn't only racial cruiser lvl5, there are also subsystems, which requires many lvl5 skill prequisites like electronics lvl5, engineering lvl5, missile lvl5/gunnery lvl5, navigation lvl5, etc. They're scattered across many attributes, not just perception/willpower. It takes more minimal training to get in than Mach, which does not require a single lvl5 skill, and only in perception/willpower attributes. Mach requires high SP to fly well, but not to get in. Tengu requires high SP to both get in and fly well.

If you're going to crosstrain to Mach from Tengu midway, before maxing out the tengu, it's wasted effort. Choose either, not both.
Medicus Forumpost
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-12-13 23:33:38 UTC
Goose99 wrote:

Keep in mind that t3 prerequisite isn't only racial cruiser lvl5, there are also subsystems, which requires many lvl5 skill prequisites like electronics lvl5, engineering lvl5, missile lvl5/gunnery lvl5, navigation lvl5, etc. They're scattered across many attributes, not just perception/willpower. It takes more minimal training to get in than Mach, which does not require a single lvl5 skill, and only in perception/willpower attributes. Mach requires high SP to fly well, but not to get in. Tengu requires high SP to both get in and fly well.

If you're going to crosstrain to Mach from Tengu midway, before maxing out the tengu, it's wasted effort. Choose either, not both.



I was considering the low-SP mach, but I kinda felt like I would be a nice juicy suicide gank target or even susceptible to just popping in a mission without some significant training, I understand the mach has a pretty light tank and relies mostly on killing stuff before it kills you.

I was going to max (nearly at least) a Tengu before going for mach so I had one solid, reliable ship that I won't die in, and my shield and general skills would be up to par, I would just need t2 gun training and battleships.
Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
#8 - 2011-12-14 00:51:28 UTC
Medicus Forumpost wrote:

This account is for reprocessing/salvaging in a noctis/manufacturing.


then you've got all your bases covered
Goose99
#9 - 2011-12-14 01:09:26 UTC
Medicus Forumpost wrote:
Goose99 wrote:

Keep in mind that t3 prerequisite isn't only racial cruiser lvl5, there are also subsystems, which requires many lvl5 skill prequisites like electronics lvl5, engineering lvl5, missile lvl5/gunnery lvl5, navigation lvl5, etc. They're scattered across many attributes, not just perception/willpower. It takes more minimal training to get in than Mach, which does not require a single lvl5 skill, and only in perception/willpower attributes. Mach requires high SP to fly well, but not to get in. Tengu requires high SP to both get in and fly well.

If you're going to crosstrain to Mach from Tengu midway, before maxing out the tengu, it's wasted effort. Choose either, not both.



I was considering the low-SP mach, but I kinda felt like I would be a nice juicy suicide gank target or even susceptible to just popping in a mission without some significant training, I understand the mach has a pretty light tank and relies mostly on killing stuff before it kills you.

I was going to max (nearly at least) a Tengu before going for mach so I had one solid, reliable ship that I won't die in, and my shield and general skills would be up to par, I would just need t2 gun training and battleships.


Tengu is a much juicier suicide gank target, simply because an unhardened tengu can be volleyed by a single apoc with rack of 1400s. Tengu without pimp tank also relies on speedtanking, and can also pop when webbed. T2 guns not mandatory for Mach, as you won't be using barrage anyway, as it's not dmg type selectable, and t1/faction ammo already get 75km.

The amount of training needed for a "solid, reliable" tengu is no shorter than that of a decent but not maxed Mach. If you go the tengu route, max it out before anything else. Otherwise go for Mach.