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People shooting renting corps in null. ( )

First post
Author
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#121 - 2014-10-21 17:14:54 UTC
Removed some off topic posts.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#122 - 2014-10-21 17:18:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
Solecist Project wrote:
No I mean ... do you have first hand experience in the space we're talking about.


Edit: She has. ^_^


We were so close in stopping you when you got greedy on a wreck with ceptors on field.

Sadly, no kill for us.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#123 - 2014-10-21 20:25:37 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
This just doesn't make sense!

Given any number of people,
there must be a smaller number of people who would run them,
yet nobody does that. It just makes no sense to me.


Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it.
How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?

Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them?
I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??

I just don't get it! :O

People do run them.

You seem to be looking for groups of people that sit there grinding anoms continuously for hours every day. That's the part that doesn't really happen, at least not outside of renters or multiboxed carriers. People who spend that much time generating ISK from PvE activities generally have dedicated alts, often outside the coalition, for doing so. As others have said, there's much better ways.

Anoms are something I undock for to get some quick liquid ISK when I have nothing better to do. Maybe I log in while drinking my morning coffee, run one anom, then go to work. Or rat with one character while I run around looking for engageable targets with the other, or out in a TiDi fleet.

If people did not run them at all, the system's military index would be at 0 and there would be only one or two anoms in system. But military 5 and the presence of 20+ anoms does not mean you should expect to find 10 people there actively doing PvE content at all times. The income per hour would have to about double to get some of the ISK making alts from elsewhere to move back to null, but that would break the faucet game.


Here is how this ties so closely into renting.

There is member income, corporation income, and alliance income.

The Alliance needs income to pay for sov bills, upgrades and SRP.

The majority of null space is crap value to the line member. These are combat focused pilots here to take and defend space. The income they can make here in downtime, using those skills, sucks compared to the rest of eve. So a substantial part of line member income ends up in the form of alts and is not effectively taxable by the corp or alliance.

The value of the space comes from the natural resources. So the most valuable ones (moons) get taken by the alliance to pay for these expenses. The space deemed useless to line members is then rented to people willing to pay for it as a further source of income, because why not?
Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#124 - 2014-10-21 23:41:48 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
M
If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.


Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2014-10-21 23:50:58 UTC
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
M
If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.


Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers.


This is true when you think of ratting as an individual activity. However sov nullsec itself is not an individual activity and when you're fleeted with friends doing PVE its far less of a risk. So occupancy sov can happen but, unlike ill-timed power projection nerfs you have to have engaging scalable PVE in place before you decide to switch to it. Other wise those of us who heed the advice from the financial wizards of our coalition will continue to do what has been recommended, have highsec alts for isk.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#126 - 2014-10-22 04:15:17 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
M
If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.


Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers.


This is true when you think of ratting as an individual activity. However sov nullsec itself is not an individual activity and when you're fleeted with friends doing PVE its far less of a risk. So occupancy sov can happen but, unlike ill-timed power projection nerfs you have to have engaging scalable PVE in place before you decide to switch to it. Other wise those of us who heed the advice from the financial wizards of our coalition will continue to do what has been recommended, have highsec alts for isk.

Your answer comes down to "we (the CFC, a well known group of blobbers) have solved the issue by blobbing". Thankfully these ships are not mining retrievers, therefore the obvious way to control for this is to make mining index critical for sov.

While Moa (the self proclaimed number 1 goon and pet killer for 7 years) has had great success against our ratting backbone in recent history,

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Captain Jazzmag
No Hot Ashes
#127 - 2014-10-22 05:57:11 UTC
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
M
If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.


Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers.


Your thinking is 1 dimensional. Also hot dropping is very overrated right now and will be more so in the future.
Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#128 - 2014-10-22 13:29:55 UTC
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
M
If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.


Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers.


Your thinking is 1 dimensional. Also hot dropping is very overrated right now and will be more so in the future.


The way it generally works is there's not a fleet on standby to come and save your bum every time you get pointed. Perhaps one will form and hit a choke point to try and catch the dropper when he roams out (if he does) but nobody's going to leeroy in to assist you. The most interactive it gets is everyone laughing at your killmail on comms. People just get safe in a POS and either switch out to a PvP ship or goes and makes a cup of tea. Indeed with good intel channels this usually happens before the red hits your system. If there's a known log-off, you move somewhere else.

If it's one dimensional it's because the game doesn't really give you all that many options, especially as you don't know how many and what is going to come through that cyno.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2014-10-22 13:35:57 UTC
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
M
If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.


Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers.


Your thinking is 1 dimensional. Also hot dropping is very overrated right now and will be more so in the future.


The way it generally works is there's not a fleet on standby to come and save your bum every time you get pointed. Perhaps one will form and hit a choke point to try and catch the dropper when he roams out (if he does) but nobody's going to leeroy in to assist you. The most interactive it gets is everyone laughing at your killmail on comms. People just get safe in a POS and either switch out to a PvP ship or goes and makes a cup of tea. Indeed with good intel channels this usually happens before the red hits your system. If there's a known log-off, you move somewhere else.

If it's one dimensional it's because the game doesn't really give you all that many options, especially as you don't know how many and what is going to come through that cyno.


You don't exactly have the experience to back up any of your "the way it works" posts being a Member of the Royal Amarr Institute. Other dude just look at my post a few posts above this.

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Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#130 - 2014-10-22 14:31:41 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

You don't exactly have the experience to back up any of your "the way it works" posts being a Member of the Royal Amarr Institute. Other dude just look at my post a few posts above this.


Sorry dear, I've been playing the game since Beta. I'm probably one of the oldest characters still active in game.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#131 - 2014-10-22 14:34:42 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Most ratters don't bother fighting back and dock up or leave the system instead so if you do it on a grand scale it does indeed have an impact.
If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass. The problem is that you need enough people willing to have an cloaky alt sitting in system most of the time or to go out and activly hunt. Another big problem is the remoteness of some regions where you on the one hand have to fly your alt trough god knows how many gates to get there and on the other hand have to take multiple mids to bridge there to drop on someone.
You can see this very nice when you compare the NPC kills for the last 24h in for example delve where you have NPC space, close proximity to low sec and AFAIK pizza operating there and cobalt edge where you have no NPC space and no proximity to low sec.

Another great example is if you compare the amount of renters in
PBLRD: 3500
NA: 14000
BOT: 11000

The eastern regions are far more remote and thus more appealing to renters.


The CFC also treats their renters like crap, which is a large part of the reason many people vastly prefer to rent from BOT/NA, beyond just the safety of the space.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#132 - 2014-10-22 14:37:01 UTC
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

You don't exactly have the experience to back up any of your "the way it works" posts being a Member of the Royal Amarr Institute. Other dude just look at my post a few posts above this.


Sorry dear, I've been playing the game since Beta. I'm probably one of the oldest characters still active in game.


"Royal Amarr Institute [RIN] from 2014.07.30 21:35 to this day"

You are 2 months old. You are not even remotely close to being anything but a newbie, let alone one of the oldest characters in the game. You as a PLAYER might be old in the game, but unfortunately you are so afraid of someone calling you out on your ill-thought-out posts that you hide behind a second layer, after your computer, as a forum troll alt.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2014-10-22 14:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

You don't exactly have the experience to back up any of your "the way it works" posts being a Member of the Royal Amarr Institute. Other dude just look at my post a few posts above this.


Sorry dear, I've been playing the game since Beta. I'm probably one of the oldest characters still active in game.


Employment History wrote:

Royal Amarr Institute [RIN] from 2014.07.30 21:35 to this day


No you haven't pretty much everything you say about the topic of nullsec can be ignored. At best you have the understanding of reading some articles.

Arronicus wrote:

The CFC also treats their renters like crap, which is a large part of the reason many people vastly prefer to rent from BOT/NA, beyond just the safety of the space.


How so?

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Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#134 - 2014-10-22 14:40:33 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

No you haven't pretty much everything you say about the topic of nullsec can be ignored. At best you have the understanding of reading some articles.


I'm an alt but don't let that get in the way of your trolling attempt.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2014-10-22 14:45:29 UTC
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

No you haven't pretty much everything you say about the topic of nullsec can be ignored. At best you have the understanding of reading some articles.


I'm an alt but don't let that get in the way of your trolling attempt.


Hint, if you want to claim you have experience in something you shouldn't post on an alt that has no evidence of ever doing what you claim.

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Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#136 - 2014-10-22 14:58:10 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

Hint, if you want to claim you have experience in something you shouldn't post on an alt that has no evidence of ever doing what you claim.


I'll post with whichever character I want thanks. Perhaps you should make an actual argument rather than engaging in argumentum ab auctoritate.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2014-10-22 16:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

Hint, if you want to claim you have experience in something you shouldn't post on an alt that has no evidence of ever doing what you claim.


I'll post with whichever character I want thanks. Perhaps you should make an actual argument rather than engaging in argumentum ab auctoritate.


Then you get to accept that your posts have less gravitas than those of us who can support with experience.

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2014-10-22 17:40:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

Hint, if you want to claim you have experience in something you shouldn't post on an alt that has no evidence of ever doing what you claim.


I'll post with whichever character I want thanks. Perhaps you should make an actual argument rather than engaging in argumentum ab auctoritate.

in a normal discussion argument from authority is acceptable as an inductive argument and a premise entirely acceptable to question

if someone does question it you are expected to respondo withum moreo thanum italics
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#139 - 2014-10-22 22:58:02 UTC
Harry Potter, you got a lotta 'splainin' to do.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.