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People shooting renting corps in null. ( )

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sHanQ Myteia
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2014-10-20 07:57:47 UTC
As someone who cant get enough killing renters i can just say the more messed up nullsec is, the easier it is for us to gain content.

Even phoebe is helping us, since its harder to drop caps on us..

So btt: yes there are mostly wh people roaming through renterspace since its a good and fun way for us to get isk, we barely lose anything because renters are clueless and not able to learn...so basically a tackled rentercarrier is a dead carrier...
Solecist Project
#102 - 2014-10-20 23:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
I am in Deklein.

I see dozens of sites ...
... in every system ...
... and no one seems to run them.


Seriously, wtf?


People can't complain that there is lack of isk making opportunity ...
... if they don't even take the opportunity that is right there ................................

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#103 - 2014-10-21 00:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Solecist Project wrote:
I am in Deklein.

I see dozens of sites ...
... in every system ...
... and no one seems to run them.


Seriously, wtf?


People can't complain that there is lack of isk making opportunity ...
... if they don't even take the opportunity that is right there ................................

Why run them?

To do null sec sites in a way that is quick and profitiable takes an expensive ship. if you can afford that ship, you can aford to use the same ship in a high sec incurision and make better isk for less effort and risk. or you can do faction warfare missions is a much cheaper ship and not give a damn about if you die. Our you can use the same isk, get a carrier and do lvl 5 missions in low traveled low sec and make more isk. unlike null anoms, lvl 5 missions ar ein DEADSPACe pockets so if someone wans to kill you, they have to launch probes to find you.

This guy makes 300 mil an hour in low sec doing level 4s with a NAGA. Their is no way to make more than 60 mil per hour with an ABC in sov null. Null is baren and full of sites because CCP made sure sov null isk making activites suck.
Solecist Project
#104 - 2014-10-21 01:02:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Caught this one before I turned off.

Why run them?

Why not? They are there.
They are doable.

There is nothing keeping these people from doing them.
There are sites available in abundance in systems that were EMPTY ...
... except my own presence, of course.

There is *no* reason not to run them, as they are there ...
... they are doable ... and there's barely any danger.

If all you see is ISK-making ...
... then I have to question your intelligence.

If the only reason to play ...
... is to make ISK ...
... then I think you don't get the point of a game.

And even IF ISK-making was the only thing that counts ...
... which is a bullshit argument to begin with anyway ...
... then they'd still make more money running these sites ...
... than by not doing them and just sitting around!


You just more and more start to sound like a nullsec propaganda parrot.


That being said ... there's really nothing to add to your drivel.


Good night.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#105 - 2014-10-21 01:27:54 UTC
If you do null anoms pretty soon there will be reasons not to do them, ie. people coming to kill and camp.
That's on top of the reasons Jenn listed, more isk elsewhere for less effort.
PVE kills light up the map and draw PVE hunters like flies to poop.
People own null to say they own it, pigeons scratch at the rental crumbs. If you want isk you do incursions or low/high PVE and if you really need isk and have no time you drop the chump change for a plex or two and sell em. Like all the pure pvp pilots i know who really don't have time to shoot red crosses for 2 to 6 dollars an hour.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2014-10-21 01:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Solecist Project wrote:
Caught this one before I turned off.

Why run them?

Why not? They are there.
They are doable.

There is nothing keeping these people from doing them.
There are sites available in abundance in systems that were EMPTY ...
... except my own presence, of course.

There is *no* reason not to run them, as they are there ...
... they are doable ... and there's barely any danger.

If all you see is ISK-making ...
... then I have to question your intelligence.

If the only reason to play ...
... is to make ISK ...
... then I think you don't get the point of a game.

And even IF ISK-making was the only thing that counts ...
... which is a bullshit argument to begin with anyway ...
... then they'd still make more money running these sites ...
... than by not doing them and just sitting around!


You just more and more start to sound like a nullsec propaganda parrot.


That being said ... there's really nothing to add to your drivel.


Good night.


There are other more profitable things you can do for less risk in other places. Some of those sites are more difficult than the time is worth doing them. I run one site and I make 30m isk or I import a bunch of crap from highsec, because nullsec industry still needs help, and sell it for 300m while I'm off doing other things. CCP made some huge mistakes in the anom 'rebalance' then never fixed them; hopefully this is part of the upcoming nullsec sov revamp.

One of my posts has a link to the data on this and we compared it to Stoic Faux data which showed that comparing baseline red cross shooting for each security area, highsec comes out ahead. In other words highsec needs a nerf and use paragraphs please that format is almost as eye-bleedingly terrible as the stuff I have to read on a daily basis.

E:
Solecist Project wrote:

If all you see is ISK-making ...
... then I have to question your intelligence.

Most of us don't find them pve fun at all so we only do them for isk making. The point of the game is to have fun is it not?

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Solecist Project
#107 - 2014-10-21 08:20:26 UTC
This just doesn't make sense!

Given any number of people,
there must be a smaller number of people who would run them,
yet nobody does that. It just makes no sense to me.


Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it.
How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?

Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them?
I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??

I just don't get it! :O

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#108 - 2014-10-21 09:57:36 UTC
Amyclas Amatin > Solecist Project we love you!
Amyclas Amatin > don't listen to the nasties!


Awwwww <3 :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#109 - 2014-10-21 10:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Screenshot of the fight:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vwur32d9ayvy17j/Screenshot%202014-10-21%2012.56.13.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7t1qyfxdadh6d7x/Screenshot%202014-10-21%2012.59.42.png?dl=0

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#110 - 2014-10-21 11:09:36 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
This just doesn't make sense!

Given any number of people,
there must be a smaller number of people who would run them,
yet nobody does that. It just makes no sense to me.


Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it.
How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?

Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them?
I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??

I just don't get it! :O


Because you cannot comprehend what has been posted in this thread:
1) They're too low on income and even at maximum upgrades they cannot support more than a few pilots in space
2) They're extremely easy intel for other groups to come and camp the system for no income at all, see 1)
3) 90% of the sites are garbage, see 1)
4) Shooting crosses is boring
Solecist Project
#111 - 2014-10-21 11:10:34 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Because you cannot comprehend what has been posted in this thread:
1) They're too low on income and even at maximum upgrades they cannot support more than a few pilots in space
2) They're extremely easy intel for other groups to come and camp the system for no income at all, see 1)
3) 90% of the sites are garbage, see 1)
4) Shooting crosses is boring

I guess that sums it up nicely.

Do you have first hand experience?

Thanks!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#112 - 2014-10-21 11:13:44 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Because you cannot comprehend what has been posted in this thread:
1) They're too low on income and even at maximum upgrades they cannot support more than a few pilots in space
2) They're extremely easy intel for other groups to come and camp the system for no income at all, see 1)
3) 90% of the sites are garbage, see 1)
4) Shooting crosses is boring

I guess that sums it up nicely.

Do you have first hand experience?

Thanks!


Yes, I do, thanks for asking. I was playing as a carebear since 2007 and then amended my ways and turned that useless toon into a bag of meat like the idiot I was and went to PvP as I find it more fun.
Solecist Project
#113 - 2014-10-21 11:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
No I mean ... do you have first hand experience in the space we're talking about.


Edit: She has. ^_^

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#114 - 2014-10-21 12:00:28 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
This just doesn't make sense!

Given any number of people,
there must be a smaller number of people who would run them,
yet nobody does that. It just makes no sense to me.


Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it.
How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?

Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them?
I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??

I just don't get it! :O


I think the problem is that there is a fundamental fact about ratting/missioning/anomolies - it is all really, really dull. If it was in-and-of-itself fun and interesting, it would get people run it for its own sake (think people in other games who quest for the stories, or raid for the challenges). EvE PVE has neither of those qualities - the stories are tepid and you are repeating them (literally, not just figuratively in the "loot 10 boar tusks" sense) several times a day, and any challenge it might have had is broken down and clearly documented to be no challenge at all (unless you make your own challenge like I've seen Jenn mention in the past).

Therefore, in the absence of challenge or story, all you have is isk, which means you have two types of regular "consumers"; those of us who do the bare minimum to get the isk they need so they can run off and pvp, and those who play the game to see their bank balance increase (or to level up their Raven), neither of which want any more out of the experience than raw efficiency, and that's the point where nullsec anomolies trip over, since its not rawly (is that a word) efficient for either the "quick couple of hours without interruption" (because of the potential for interruption) or "putting a blingy at risk" (because of the blingy being at risk) crowds.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#115 - 2014-10-21 12:25:05 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:


Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it.
How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?


This has been explained. Even now, most of the 'good' content in null is run by renters and ninja ratter or guys in the 'big alliances' with carriers/super carriers who can get the most out of them (and who want to not have the headache of converting LPs or hauling blue loot etc).

In MOST of space, the belt rats and anomalies that spawn either naturally or via the upgrade system SUCK compared to plain vanilla lvl 4 missions in empire. And in high sec, you got CONCORD to back you up so you don't have to risk an expensive asset (like a pirate BS) out in null. The ONLY way to make good isk out of null sec content is with an expensive ship, not so in the rest of EVE.

People will talk about exploration and 10/10 DEd plexes, but those suck too. Because you have to have either multiple guys or multi box if you want to do them quickly (or you solo them in a tech 3 but that exposes you to danger because it takes so long), AND they got nerfed years ago so most of the rewards are chance based (used to be you got a guaranteed 500 mil out of a 10/10 from OPEs alone, not that like 130 mil maybe).

MEANWHILE, explorers are doing 5-6/10s in low sec, getting a chance at MONSTER loot like pithum invuls (better than anyting you can get in a null 10/10) and if they get nohing, they didn't waste much time at all.

Much of the poor state of Null sec income activities stems from this and similar changes.

This is a good article from back in the day also:

http://www.eve-tribune.com/print.php?no=6_15
Quote:
CCP referred to the lower grade anomalies (which will now become the only ones available to most sovereignty holders) as 'filler' - and indeed that's how they are regarded by the players. So CCP are being quite open about the fact that they want most 0.0 systems to be useless again.

The apparent aim of Dominion was to get more people out in 0.0 which had for a long time been the preserve of already very rich and powerful organisations, and the aim of this reversal seems to be to get those people back to empire.

The Dev blog talks about promoting conflict, but I don't really see any possible change in the state of war in null-sec. The huge power blocks are always fighting, and everyone else is being packed off back to their level-four agents.


Quote:

Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them?
I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??

I just don't get it! :O


it's easy to understand if you open your mind to the realities. The fact that you see all that stuff out there being undone should tell you something. If it was worth doing, people would be doing it. I do have an alt in null sec to do anomalies because it's easy , liquid isk and once in a while you luck up on an escalation, but for the most part, it's suck grinding for less than you could make usign the same toon in a noctis sweeping up wrecks and salvage in high sec behind your pve main.

The purpose of pve in EVE is to make isk. Null content is bad for this. High sec, low sec (regular and FW) and wormholes are better places to make isk for veteran AND new players alike. If anomalies didn't give liquid isk (the one saving grace of the things), almost NO one would be in null for pve at all.
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#116 - 2014-10-21 12:32:06 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
This just doesn't make sense!

Given any number of people,
there must be a smaller number of people who would run them,
yet nobody does that. It just makes no sense to me.


Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it.
How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?

Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them?
I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??

I just don't get it! :O


I think the problem is that there is a fundamental fact about ratting/missioning/anomolies - it is all really, really dull. If it was in-and-of-itself fun and interesting, it would get people run it for its own sake (think people in other games who quest for the stories, or raid for the challenges). EvE PVE has neither of those qualities - the stories are tepid and you are repeating them (literally, not just figuratively in the "loot 10 boar tusks" sense) several times a day, and any challenge it might have had is broken down and clearly documented to be no challenge at all (unless you make your own challenge like I've seen Jenn mention in the past).

Therefore, in the absence of challenge or story, all you have is isk, which means you have two types of regular "consumers"; those of us who do the bare minimum to get the isk they need so they can run off and pvp, and those who play the game to see their bank balance increase (or to level up their Raven), neither of which want any more out of the experience than raw efficiency, and that's the point where nullsec anomolies trip over, since its not rawly (is that a word) efficient for either the "quick couple of hours without interruption" (because of the potential for interruption) or "putting a blingy at risk" (because of the blingy being at risk) crowds.

Grab a thrasher and go run an anomaly... its fun struggling to survive
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#117 - 2014-10-21 12:44:11 UTC
Hengle Teron wrote:

Grab a thrasher and go run an anomaly... its fun struggling to survive


Sure it can be, but anoms (like all combat pve) are for isk making, doing them in a thrasher is like doing a lvl 4 mission in an assault frig, fun for a few minutes till you realize that the more time you spend struggling like this for the sake of 'fun', making pitiful isk, the longer it takes you to earn the isk needed for other MORE fun things (like buying a black ops battleship to use with your friends in low sec or buying a stratios for exploring for example). Opportunity cost.

To each his own of course.
Prince Kobol
#118 - 2014-10-21 12:58:45 UTC
Here is the thing, when it comes to PvE content, Eve differs from most other games in so far as PvE primary goal is to earn isk.

In other games, such your WoW's, Rift, SWTOR, Lotro etc.. you do not PvE just to earn in game currency, in fact in many of these games how much gold, credits or whatever becomes less of an issue as you progress further into the game, you grind because you want to level up an item, acquire an item, progress a storyline, unlock x.. not to earn money.

In Eve you PvE primarily to earn isk and the bigger the ship, the more isk you need. If you want a Super you will usually want a sitter pilot to go with it and you will usually want to plex your accounts which means earning even more isk.

Also Eve is a game where having an alt, whether it be station trading, recon, booster pilot is very useful so it requires earning more isk to plex those alts.

This has made PvE in a min/max profession.

That means people will do research to see what method earns them the most isk and since PvE is so mind numbing bad, they will want to do as little as possible.

It will only take a small amount of time for most people to release that grinding level 4 missions is the best option for them.

It is very easy to do, doesn't take an expensive ship, doesn't require many skill points and probably exposes them to the least amount of risk.

After this you have HS Incursions and Level 5 missions.

(just to add yes their are exceptions but I think it is safe to say that majority play this way)
Solecist Project
#119 - 2014-10-21 13:10:53 UTC
Great posts!

Will take me a while to read through!
Also I want to apologise for redundant questions,
but it's actually not that easy to keep up.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-10-21 13:14:29 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
This just doesn't make sense!

Given any number of people,
there must be a smaller number of people who would run them,
yet nobody does that. It just makes no sense to me.


Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it.
How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?

Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them?
I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??

I just don't get it! :O


No there are other more entertaining and profitable things to do like exploration, stuff with theta, marketeering, highsec isk making alt, etc. For example I spend most of my time in highsec shooting idiots who haul way to much isk in untanked t1 industrials. Its essentially PVE, its fun, and I make far more than I ever would running sites. I also get goods to continue playing the market back in dek from it too.

If I spent that time running the crappy anomalies you are insisting are worth it I would have considerably less isk, used more time, had no fun, and less things to continue doing other activities.

We're intrinsically lazy and would love it if a bunch of pubbies would fleet up to come shoot at us. It means we wouldn't have to travel to get any fights. The problem is pubbies are far to risk averse to actually do anything.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133