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Permadeath in eve online??
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#61 - 2014-10-19 22:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Abrazzar wrote:
Meh. Let me brainstorm some stuff.

Not capsuleers but mortal elite captains. Don't train skills. Skillset defined by chosen class. Restricted to one ship size/class. Mandatory membership in factional warfare. no wallet, no market ability. Earns LPs through FW. Can buy equipment with LPs. Capsuleers can offer LPs for equipment. When ship dies not in capsule but in escape pod. No warp in escape pod. Will get moved to the designated FW station after a timer expires should the pod survive. LP store offers skill implants to improve the ship crew.

Bah. Still no good. A game has to be designed around this concept. It just doesn't work right with EVE.

Perhaps not those parameters specifically, but that is hardly the limit of what "could" be done. So far its just a rough concept, but they do seem to be paying a substantial amount of attention to looking at benefit vs. possibility of exploitation.

If they can iron out a good concept think of the bragging rights as an EVE player. Not only do you play a game where everything you lose is gone permanently, but it also has perma death.

Hard core mode indeed.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#62 - 2014-10-20 00:18:09 UTC
Seems very similar to a very popular "Death of a Spaceman" post on another site.
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-10-20 00:50:21 UTC
Oh how people fear change.

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#64 - 2014-10-20 03:04:13 UTC
KuroVolt wrote:
Oh how people fear change.

People don't like change when it's a terrible idea. I doubt fear is involved at all.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#65 - 2014-10-20 04:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Just so that everyone is as informed as they can be, Rise discusses current thinking on perma death in EVE towards the end of his presentation called The New Player Experience, which can be found here.

The New Player Experience

Yes, the title of the presentation "is" slightly ironic as it pertains to this topic. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-10-20 05:40:55 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Just so that everyone is as informed as they can be, Rise discusses current thinking on perma death in EVE towards the end of his presentation called The New Player Experience, which can be found here.

The New Player Experience

Yes, the title of the presentation "is" slightly ironic as it pertains to this topic. Smile


Thank you.
Erin Crawford
#67 - 2014-10-20 08:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Erin Crawford
Thanks for the info Ranger 1.
Will check that out just now...

Sounds like this new option would work similar to those pre-paid phones colloquially known as 'burner phones' - use once(or however often you need for whatever purpose) and then dispose of and get a new one.

I guess we could call them 'Burner Characters'...


*edit.

I suppose this way if you need to get a hauler pilot quickly you can do so almost instantly without having to train him up and without having to spend massive amounts on buying a Character from the market. This could work for anything else too; pvp, mining, production, exploration, incursions, etc... whatever you want and need - just use and burn.

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#68 - 2014-10-20 09:18:21 UTC
I would buy a smartbombing battleship for lowsec specifically for this purpose.

I understand that CCP needs to change the game to increase subs and retention but they should be careful. I'm sure they will be.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#69 - 2014-10-20 09:49:54 UTC
Thanks Ranger 1 for those vids.

Rise actually mentioned number one thing I had in mind as a "frakk up" detail of those weird characters: they wouldn't be able to have skills in anything usable in stations. So no freebe on indy or market alts. Hopefully they won't be able to use cloaks or any other blops related stuff. AFK cloaking is in perfect condition and there's no need to spoil it will "make your own hotdrop crew in less than 5 minutes" ideas.

But anyway it seems that future releases will have quite a lot of "oh no you didn't!" stuff which is a good thing. I guess. Probably. Maybe...

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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#70 - 2014-10-20 11:45:50 UTC
I will awox the **** out of you using permadeath alts.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2014-10-20 11:54:45 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Just so that everyone is as informed as they can be, Rise discusses current thinking on perma death in EVE towards the end of his presentation called The New Player Experience, which can be found here.

The New Player Experience

Yes, the title of the presentation "is" slightly ironic as it pertains to this topic. Smile


Thanks for the link, that certainly put a lot of these rumors into context and actually got me excited for a feature like this (if properly implemented).

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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#72 - 2014-10-20 17:53:35 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
First thought was when did they take the straitjacket off, but then he talked about these accounts would have no skill training, he got a bit conflicted then and talked about earning at double speed.

There's some idea here where you have disposable characters that can get going, doing stuff right away, and the account gets reset if you die, it seems.

Well, that's an option, one could get instantly useful alts, but the devil is in the detail, if I sub for a year and get podded, is all that subscription lost? Or do I have a character who is never able to do anything, sort of brain dead?
Or do I reapply xmillion skill points again and roll a new set of skills and start again?

I wonder if he is talking more of a pheonix character rather than permadeath? Just lose your reputation. That has potential.

Or maybe they should put the straitjacket back on?

we will know when we see where this goes.............




For a while now whenever the topic comes up I have suggested a "Live Fast Die Young" option. Think of it like this "You got a turbo brain that lets you learn very fast, but they can't clone it".

The idea is not the best one - some people might use it to create a "never undock" alt meaning there's all the benefits of living fast, and never getting killed. So maybe such a character would need a SP cap. I don't know.

Seeing them address this idea is good though.

Imagine the epic butthurt when someone who thinks "It can never happen to me" goes for this option and then gets podded AFKing through Eudema. There will need to be like 20 popups warning players about this option before they select it, but we'll still get the butthurt threads.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2014-10-20 18:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Baneken wrote:
Either way having free SP / XP / lvl's from the get go is never a good idea, no matter how smart for the business.


It's the next logical step from allowing people to buy their way into the game with PLEX for character trading. Everyone who supported that mechanic implicitly supported this coming along.

Both buying this type of character and the permadeath is against the fundamental nature of Eve. When people start complaining and asking for their money back from CCP after losing money when someone pops them, hopefully this bad idea will be removed and the creator of it will be fired for being drunk on the job.

There's this trend of people thinking "it doesnt affect me, I don't have to use it if I dont like it, etc", its an MMO, it always affects you what goes into the game even if you choose not to use it. That's part of the package deal of MMOs and even real life. You cant avoid the affects of things that happen by not participating. They'll hit you anyways. People keep forgetting this simple rule even if they've run into it numerous times.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-10-20 20:50:28 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Just so that everyone is as informed as they can be, Rise discusses current thinking on perma death in EVE towards the end of his presentation called The New Player Experience, which can be found here.

The New Player Experience

Yes, the title of the presentation "is" slightly ironic as it pertains to this topic. Smile


Everybody know trial account like that would be used massively more by vets who know how to optimise the training limit to get a "perfect" character for a specific job.

If they want to keep newbies, they have to find a way to make those newbies see what can be done in EVE during the trial time, not give them even more options which they have no idea are there or how to use them not to mention the complete reset of their progress even if they intend to sub because some people will make a career out of ganking these player because they can be veteran while the new player will again suffer from this. You don't keep customer by reseting their progress during the time they tried your game.

If you want more new player or to retain new player, stop building god damn alt functions. The new guy don't want an alt, he want to know if you game is worth his time and his :fifteenbux: . Teach him what he will be able to do in your game instead of piling more and more option on his plate knowing full well he can't even look through one fully before his time is out. Making him a potential perma death target is also a ****** idea because he most likely don't want to lose his 100% of his progress even if you promise he can get it back.

Would you throw money CCP's way if you were knew during the time you try to get a feel of their game, they let everybody in the game permanently reset any progress you have done if they choose to and there is nothing you can do about it beside pay before it happen?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#75 - 2014-10-20 21:08:26 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Just so that everyone is as informed as they can be, Rise discusses current thinking on perma death in EVE towards the end of his presentation called The New Player Experience, which can be found here.

The New Player Experience

Yes, the title of the presentation "is" slightly ironic as it pertains to this topic. Smile


Everybody know trial account like that would be used massively more by vets who know how to optimise the training limit to get a "perfect" character for a specific job.

If they want to keep newbies, they have to find a way to make those newbies see what can be done in EVE during the trial time, not give them even more options which they have no idea are there or how to use them not to mention the complete reset of their progress even if they intend to sub because some people will make a career out of ganking these player because they can be veteran while the new player will again suffer from this. You don't keep customer by reseting their progress during the time they tried your game.

If you want more new player or to retain new player, stop building god damn alt functions. The new guy don't want an alt, he want to know if you game is worth his time and his :fifteenbux: . Teach him what he will be able to do in your game instead of piling more and more option on his plate knowing full well he can't even look through one fully before his time is out. Making him a potential perma death target is also a ****** idea because he most likely don't want to lose his 100% of his progress even if you promise he can get it back.

Would you throw money CCP's way if you were knew during the time you try to get a feel of their game, they let everybody in the game permanently reset any progress you have done if they choose to and there is nothing you can do about it beside pay before it happen?

Frosty, no jab intended, but perhaps you should watch that video again. I don't think this has any direct connection to trial accounts.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#76 - 2014-10-20 21:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
13kr1d1 wrote:
Baneken wrote:
Either way having free SP / XP / lvl's from the get go is never a good idea, no matter how smart for the business.


It's the next logical step from allowing people to buy their way into the game with PLEX for character trading. Everyone who supported that mechanic implicitly supported this coming along.

Both buying this type of character and the permadeath is against the fundamental nature of Eve. When people start complaining and asking for their money back from CCP after losing money when someone pops them, hopefully this bad idea will be removed and the creator of it will be fired for being drunk on the job.

There's this trend of people thinking "it doesnt affect me, I don't have to use it if I dont like it, etc", its an MMO, it always affects you what goes into the game even if you choose not to use it. That's part of the package deal of MMOs and even real life. You cant avoid the affects of things that happen by not participating. They'll hit you anyways. People keep forgetting this simple rule even if they've run into it numerous times.

I got the impression that this might become an option you could choose for one of the 3 character slots you have, not a separate character that you somehow "buy".

It's still just a rough concept though, so I suppose it could go in any direction.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#77 - 2014-10-20 23:33:04 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Did I just hear that correctly? Ugh


what's next.. dark midget frigrates???


It's the dark influence of EA games being felt at CCP.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-10-21 02:51:21 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Why don't they just run a special and run with the "pay to win" theme?

10Aurum and you get a shiny new alt, fully skilled for flying the T2 Neutron blaster fit Catalyst that comes with the account Roll

Brings a whole new meaning to the term "suicide ganking", I approve, though I will still use my trusty old -10 ganker toon since she scares people.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-10-21 02:54:28 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Baneken wrote:
Either way having free SP / XP / lvl's from the get go is never a good idea, no matter how smart for the business.


It's the next logical step from allowing people to buy their way into the game with PLEX for character trading. Everyone who supported that mechanic implicitly supported this coming along.

Both buying this type of character and the permadeath is against the fundamental nature of Eve. When people start complaining and asking for their money back from CCP after losing money when someone pops them, hopefully this bad idea will be removed and the creator of it will be fired for being drunk on the job.

There's this trend of people thinking "it doesnt affect me, I don't have to use it if I dont like it, etc", its an MMO, it always affects you what goes into the game even if you choose not to use it. That's part of the package deal of MMOs and even real life. You cant avoid the affects of things that happen by not participating. They'll hit you anyways. People keep forgetting this simple rule even if they've run into it numerous times.

Think of it as enabling Phoebe's capital nerfs to be effectively nullified through pay to win. And I say this as someone who will likely use it for that purpose.
Khorvek
Colear Mining Retrieval and Distributing
#80 - 2014-10-21 03:50:04 UTC
I come from a line of hardcore games with limited lives, full loot, permadeath after X amount of times you've been killed by other players or even mobs. Every time you start a new character in that game, you get no bonuses. Multi, which is playing multiple characters at the same time, having alts that work together, etc, is forbidden in these games. Everyone in the game counts, and it feels truly like you're in a world because you/re so small on account of these limitations. This is another step towards Eve MMO: the single player game.

People talk about how eve is better than WoW. I still get one shotted undocking in a frigate if there's a WT thrasher outside. It looks eerily similar to getting one shotted in WoW battlegrounds by a x9 level player when you're x1-4 levels.