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Tech 3 destroyerness (D3's)
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Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#21 - 2014-10-20 10:24:52 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
This is the main testing bed for the future of t3's. Currently ccp really does not have much control over them. They can't regulate its speed, tank, dps, fittings, or stats without everybody calling it a flat out nerf.

If they introduce "stances", essentially ccp can base stat the t3 cruisers, and instead of having mega extremes, forces the users to choose a stance which enhances its base stats. It basically means no more 800+ dps proteus with a 100,000 tank, or a neut legion with a 200,000 tank, or 100mn tengu's. What this does mean is that the player has more micro control over their ship to deal with the situation at the time, and ccp can gain some control over the t3.

Need to get closer, switch to speed, need to tank more alpha, switch to defense, all out dos, switch to offense. The concept is very sound and makes t3's a bit more tactile.

But the base stats will go down, but their stance stats will probably be higher than they are currently. It is a bit of a gamble, because if ccp does go that way, that means they will probably get rid of subsystems entirely, and roll in the subsystem material costs into the base construction of the ship, making the ship take more materials to build, and making building them a bit more simple. Doing this then allows ccp to begin creating new ship sets.
Will it work, depends, but I believe it will.

How they will wrangle in the cloaking subsystems, the resistance subsystems and the ewar subsystems is another matter.



I think the problem with doing this blanket approach to the current t3 cruisers is that we have had them for so long. They have basically become a staple of WH life, and many other places in Eve. If CCP decides to just throw a blanket fix that allows them to get rid of subs, etc, and turn it in to a one click to rule them all type thing it will cause a huge disturbance in the community. I know I would be pretty pissed off if t3 cruisers were turned into what the t3 destroyers sounds like they are going to be.

Look at it from this prospective: If they were to do this to the current t3s they would need to have 5+ modes to switch between.
1) Prober (2) Cloaker (3) Booster (4) Tank (5) DPS.

The current t3's work right now as they are able to do things that no other ships can. They can change their roles on the fly, and fill multiple roles within one set of subs. Cloaky probing exploration, cloaky tanked heavy dps, tanked ewar, booster, etc, etc, etc.

Start changing this around and you are going to have a mass exodus from WH's, and probably the game.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#22 - 2014-10-20 10:30:33 UTC
Tuggles. What I proposed is pure theory. We don't know yet what will happen

Yaay!!!!
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#23 - 2014-10-20 10:35:46 UTC
Subs are surely not going to be removed from T3 cruisers, that would be madness. Rebalance, okay, but the existing T3 system is way too good and interesting to just throw it out. I don't mind a new approach with the destroyers though, even though any destroyer will probably be quite useless in wspace.

.
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#24 - 2014-10-20 11:50:57 UTC
That is probably the reason why we have strategic cruisers and tactical destroyers.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#25 - 2014-10-20 12:04:42 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
If they introduce "stances", essentially ccp can base stat the t3 cruisers, and instead of having mega extremes, forces the users to choose a stance which enhances its base stats. It basically means no more 800+ dps proteus with a 100,000 tank, or a neut legion with a 200,000 tank, or 100mn tengu's. What this does mean is that the player has more micro control over their ship to deal with the situation at the time, and ccp can gain some control over the t3.


You could solve 90% of the overpowered aspect by temporarily removing buffersubs from the game. What remains would be a crappy, overpriced CS.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#26 - 2014-10-20 12:04:50 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:
That is probably the reason why we have strategic cruisers and tactical destroyers.


and if CCP decides to rename them into Tactical Cruisers....

Just saying :-)

Yaay!!!!
Levina Windstar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-10-20 12:23:10 UTC
I don't have the source, but I think I read/heard somewhere way earlier this year that CCP was actually going to "rebalance" T3 cruiser at the end of this year. Seing these new T3 destroyer coming, I don't think they plan on doing much stuff on the cruiser yet. Meaby one day...

One thing that I am concern is the skills. Will there be new one? Will it be noob friendly as oppose to T3 cruiser?

I don't think that it will actually bring more ppl into WH tho.

"I can make billions using my mouth ...

... and sometimes when I talk, too" --- Solecist Project
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#28 - 2014-10-20 12:28:23 UTC
Levina Windstar wrote:
I don't have the source, but I think I read/heard somewhere way earlier this year that CCP was actually going to "rebalance" T3 cruiser at the end of this year. Seing these new T3 destroyer coming, I don't think they plan on doing much stuff on the cruiser yet. Meaby one day...

One thing that I am concern is the skills. Will there be new one? Will it be noob friendly as oppose to T3 cruiser?

I don't think that it will actually bring more ppl into WH tho.


It really REALLY depends. There is 0 information on them atm except that they exist.

Yaay!!!!
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#29 - 2014-10-20 13:00:35 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
I have been nagging Corbexx endlessly on skype about this (poor guy). I am in two minds on this as i see the massive downside to them overlooking rebalancing/fixing T3 cruisers. With the new destroyers not looking to be released for a little while i don't have any optimism left that they are currently working on T3 cruisers or looking to work on them in the near future, that ship has sailed i think.

I am still gratefull however that WH's will get a buff income increase with the new destroyer having its resources coming from existing T3 products.

I am bittersweet on this one...


I do not think that the T3 Destroyers indicate that the Cruiser balance pass fell by the wayside. I think this Destroyers probably sprang out of the balancing work on the Cruisers. At most, I'd say that the Destroyers are a minor distraction from the Cruisers. They may even be a test platform for work planned for the Cruisers.

When I think about the thought I put into just fitting a T3 Cruiser, I can imagine balancing them and making each subsystem as relevant and useful as the others being a very involved task. I'd rather have it done well than have it done quickly. I understand the need to step away from big tasks and welcome the result of that distraction.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
Abraham Nalelmir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-10-20 13:24:57 UTC
Might be a good change to get more people into WHs, sure many people manufacture stuff in highsec, but someone got to go and get them the required materials from a wormhole system and sell them in Jita...

With the extra demand, there are 3 possibilities that might happen:

  1. Either more new people get into wormholes to get those required materials (which is really awesome and I hope it will happen).
  2. Or the existing WH entities will step up and take that chance to get more better income
  3. Or, new entities will get in wormholes, resulting reduced income for existing PVP oriented entities, thus creating more conflicts or resources and sites.


What will be the result I think it will be known when we see the first image of the T3 destroyers.

In Go.. ECM I trust
Teleil Zoomers
Royal Sphynx Ltd
#31 - 2014-10-20 15:10:35 UTC
so many negatives here.

who knows maybe they will suck, maybe they will be allright.
they wont overpower t3 fleets, but every1 saying they wont be used in wormholes is crazy because they will be.
they won't be used to bash pos or for heavy engagements, but they may have some niche uses.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-10-20 15:38:21 UTC
I think they could be cool if they made the new Frig only WH's able to field up to a destroyer. Being able to have a T3 style small ship that could make use of these frig only holes would be cool. Otherwise those frig holes IMO are still essentially worthless and annoying.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#33 - 2014-10-20 15:43:55 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I think they could be cool if they made the new Frig only WH's able to field up to a destroyer. Being able to have a T3 style small ship that could make use of these frig only holes would be cool. Otherwise those frig holes IMO are still essentially worthless and annoying.


They already field up to a destroyer, and multi bubble hic cruisers.

They still aren't used.

Yaay!!!!
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-10-20 16:18:03 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I think they could be cool if they made the new Frig only WH's able to field up to a destroyer. Being able to have a T3 style small ship that could make use of these frig only holes would be cool. Otherwise those frig holes IMO are still essentially worthless and annoying.


They already field up to a destroyer, and multi bubble hic cruisers.

They still aren't used.


Oh really? I had heard frig holes and never tried.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#35 - 2014-10-20 16:52:01 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I think they could be cool if they made the new Frig only WH's able to field up to a destroyer. Being able to have a T3 style small ship that could make use of these frig only holes would be cool. Otherwise those frig holes IMO are still essentially worthless and annoying.


They already field up to a destroyer, and multi bubble hic cruisers.

They still aren't used.


Oh really? I had heard frig holes and never tried.



And that is one of the many issues of the frig hole. We'll see if people will use destroyers in wormhole space. Right now, probably not, but we need to see the stats and how they work.

Yaay!!!!
AssassinationsdoneWrong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#36 - 2014-10-20 19:15:42 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
I have been nagging Corbexx endlessly on skype about this (poor guy). I am in two minds on this as i see the massive downside to them overlooking rebalancing/fixing T3 cruisers. With the new destroyers not looking to be released for a little while i don't have any optimism left that they are currently working on T3 cruisers or looking to work on them in the near future, that ship has sailed i think.

I am still gratefull however that WH's will get a buff income increase with the new destroyer having its resources coming from existing T3 products.

I am bittersweet on this one...


All of this. Reeks of distraction and "wtf do we do now to avoid them talking about T3 rebalances and poses?"

The Nexus 7's

What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity
Teleil Zoomers
Royal Sphynx Ltd
#37 - 2014-10-20 21:23:23 UTC
no this was done because of sleeper loot value rebalancing
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-10-20 21:39:02 UTC
Teleil Zoomers wrote:
no this was done because of sleeper loot value rebalancing


Translation:
CCP: "We dun goofed. WHs are now empty. Here try this"
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#39 - 2014-10-20 22:00:28 UTC
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
I have been nagging Corbexx endlessly on skype about this (poor guy). I am in two minds on this as i see the massive downside to them overlooking rebalancing/fixing T3 cruisers. With the new destroyers not looking to be released for a little while i don't have any optimism left that they are currently working on T3 cruisers or looking to work on them in the near future, that ship has sailed i think.

I am still gratefull however that WH's will get a buff income increase with the new destroyer having its resources coming from existing T3 products.

I am bittersweet on this one...


All of this. Reeks of distraction and "wtf do we do now to avoid them talking about T3 rebalances and poses?"


Honestly I'd be terrified to do T3 rebalancing, because there is 0 chance that there isn't a massive global nerf to them all (and I love the damn things). Something will be ripped from them, and there will be nothing but screams from the community.

Yes I'd be terrified if I had to release the "features" to T3's that will be done. They are going to get kicked in the teeth, with us along with them.

With the most recent wormhole changes, they lost a good chunk of people. CCP can either see this as an opportunity to Implement All the Wormhole Changes now, and allow a newish crew to move in, and possibly alienate or vacate all of wormhole space as people may just say "those ships are now crap". Or they can hold off on any changes to see if wormhole space increases, then run the risk of re-alienating the new people with the giant wiffile bat of nerfdom.

Either choice sucks, but I get there "hesitation".

Yaay!!!!
Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-10-21 01:22:53 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
I have been nagging Corbexx endlessly on skype about this (poor guy). I am in two minds on this as i see the massive downside to them overlooking rebalancing/fixing T3 cruisers. With the new destroyers not looking to be released for a little while i don't have any optimism left that they are currently working on T3 cruisers or looking to work on them in the near future, that ship has sailed i think.

I am still gratefull however that WH's will get a buff income increase with the new destroyer having its resources coming from existing T3 products.

I am bittersweet on this one...


All of this. Reeks of distraction and "wtf do we do now to avoid them talking about T3 rebalances and poses?"


Honestly I'd be terrified to do T3 rebalancing, because there is 0 chance that there isn't a massive global nerf to them all (and I love the damn things). Something will be ripped from them, and there will be nothing but screams from the community.

Yes I'd be terrified if I had to release the "features" to T3's that will be done. They are going to get kicked in the teeth, with us along with them.

With the most recent wormhole changes, they lost a good chunk of people. CCP can either see this as an opportunity to Implement All the Wormhole Changes now, and allow a newish crew to move in, and possibly alienate or vacate all of wormhole space as people may just say "those ships are now crap". Or they can hold off on any changes to see if wormhole space increases, then run the risk of re-alienating the new people with the giant wiffile bat of nerfdom.

Either choice sucks, but I get there "hesitation".


Actually about 6 months ago rise was saying that most t3 cruisers were fine and that when t3s came to rebalance there woulf be a few nerfs but nothing too horrible and it would be mostly buffs to the unused subs
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