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Crime & Punishment

 
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Who Gets All The Freighter Ganking Loot?
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Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#201 - 2014-10-19 22:44:05 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Quote:

Can you quote even a single person in this thread alleging that CODE gank pilots get a share of the loot? I mean, not counting getting a replacement ~1m gank cat?


Leto Thule wrote:

Yes. Me.

After Ganking a freighter with fellow ducks a while back, we split the loot. Not all ganks are done under the auspices of the new order.


Which would mean it was not CODE gank pilots getting a share of the loot.

Reading comprehension please.


I enforce the CODE.

"Reading comprehension please"..

****.


I think everyone except you understood exactly what that sentence meant. If your one trick is to intentionally misinterpret something to make a point then congratulations on being a fabulous one-trick-pony.

If you expect me to have a serious conversation with you about the differences between CODE. the corp, the "new order", and "those not affiliated with CODE., not operating under the auspices of the 'new order', but still RPing that they nevertheless consider themselves 'CODE' because they 'enforce the CODE'" in this context then..........get used to disappointment. I'm simply not interested.


So don't be interested. But just because you don't see the connection (or differences) between THE Code, CODE. Alliance, and The New Order doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Black Pedro
Mine.
#202 - 2014-10-20 06:56:46 UTC
voetius wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:

If you hire an arsonist to burn down your neighbour's farmhouse, you probably aren't going to ask for receipts for the gasoline as long as the job gets done. And James 315 seems to be getting the job done.


Is he really? I keep reading on the forums that ganking is an all time low. That would seem to contradict what you are asserting.


That is what CCP has said but you wouldn't know it from the constant "nerf ganking" threads that pop-up near daily on these forums.

It is definitely true that the continual whining of a certain class of player has resulted in change after change to highsec PvP mechanics to the point that operating in highsec is safer than it has ever been. So safe if fact, that almost all mining and hauling is done AFK with still practically no risk to the so-called "player" and thier ships.

James 315 and The New Order have mobilized over 400B ISK into suicide ganking events, which at the typical multiplier of 10-20 to 1 means more than 5 trillion ISK worth of space equipment has been destroyed that might not have been if the SRP did not exist. Against the background of near-zero risk that is the present state of highsec, I would say that is "getting it done".

But really, I have fallen into the carebear trap of measuring success in the game solely by ISK. The New Order of Highsec has created so much win in the form of content creation, both in-game conflict and on the forums and in blogs and community websites that only the most fervent carebear apologist can say that Eve would be a more interesting place without the New Order.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#203 - 2014-10-20 15:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Princess Bride wrote:
Do you truly not see the difference, or is this just obstinate insistence?
I can see the difference, I just don't see the relevance of comparing a charity/non profit in the real world with a space terrorism organisation, which doesn't claim to be either, in an MMO.

Quote:
The American Red Cross is a respected non-profit corporation providing humanitarian aid world-wide. Despite your professed ignorance of the scrutiny endured by, and transparency of, said organization, it is public record. I have provided a good starting place from which anyone can delve deeply into the details of exactly how this organization is scrutinized as well as the US Federal laws in place detailing exactly how much crap will get dumped on the heads of those in charge of the organization if they're ever caught engaging in any sort of fraud. Including bribery, embezzlement, misappropriation, or mischaracterizing any part of their annual, required, legally sworn, publicly available IRS Form 990. And yet no. For you, no proof is enough to convince you that you are simply wrong when you assert that almost no donations go to the cause stated and instead are likely funneled into various forms of chicanery. In this case. In ANY case for ALL non-profits...in the world.
My ignorance is not professed, as a non US citizen I have no knowledge about , or interest in, the amount of scrutiny a charity undergoes in the US. I asked some pertinent questions which seem to have offended your sensibilities, whether or not I believe the contents of the questions to be true or false is irrelevant. FYI the Red Cross is one of the few charitable organisations I donate to, make of that what you will.


Quote:
On the other hand, CODE., run by a guy known for past large-scale scamming, on a game with no mechanics outside of the API key to determine "truth" when it comes to the financial details of an organization, is, apparently, in your opinion, beyond reproach. Despite not providing an API. Despite making absolutely no claims to transparency.
Nowhere did I say that James or the New Order were beyond reproach, I said that they appear to be using the donations they receive in the manner they say they would.

Quote:
Why are you so willing to trust James 315 and CODE. management, with no evidence, but dismiss all non-profits as corrupt?

I think that indicates a pretty clear bias on your part. Maybe even a fair touch of paranoia combined with zealous faith.
Ever hear of the phrase "Devils Advocate"?

Bias? Yep, it's called self interest.
Paranoia? Definitely, it's a survival trait in Eve.
Zealous? I'm pretty zealous about preventing my own occasional explosions, that's about it.
Faith? The only things in Eve that I have faith in are that CCP will make the occasional cockup, I will explode occasionally, despite my efforts to not do so, and that some Eve players will find a reason to whine about pretty much anything.

Quote:
And why is it no one can believe that I can appreciate this as a good scam in C&P, yet they insist the victims of the scam will thus appreciate it? Please consider me a fan of James 315 and those few lucky ducks with whom he is sharing the proceeds. But don't expect me not to call it as I see it.
If it is a scam then yes it is a good one. There are no victims though, pretty much everybody who donates to the New Order is well aware of James's past, and the aims of the organisation he is the figurehead of, and the risk of scamming involved with giving them money.

On a side note about the victims of scams, I lost a sizeable amount of ISK in the Phaser Inc. ponzi scheme, when the scheme closed I fired an evemail to the guys involved containing a simple "GG o7". The guy who caught me, while drunk, with a margin trading scam got pretty much the same thing and some questions about how he managed to pull it off.

Even as the victim I'm capable of appreciating a well executed ingame scam.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#204 - 2014-10-20 17:21:25 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I lost a sizeable amount of ISK in the Phaser Inc. ponzi scheme, when the scheme closed I fired an evemail to the guys involved containing a simple "GG o7". The guy who caught me, while drunk, with a margin trading scam got pretty much the same thing and some questions about how he managed to pull it off.

Even as the victim I'm capable of appreciating a well executed ingame scam.


The kind of blind faith required to fall for a ponzi scheme matches exactly with my assessment of your faith in CODE./new order/James 315. But falling for two scams......wow. You can justify this with a claim to being drunk if it helps with the sting, but, that really does speak for itself. So how much ISK have you dumped into your third scam loss?

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2014-10-20 18:19:44 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Princess Bride wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I lost a sizeable amount of ISK in the Phaser Inc. ponzi scheme, when the scheme closed I fired an evemail to the guys involved containing a simple "GG o7". The guy who caught me, while drunk, with a margin trading scam got pretty much the same thing and some questions about how he managed to pull it off.

Even as the victim I'm capable of appreciating a well executed ingame scam.


The kind of blind faith required to fall for a ponzi scheme matches exactly with my assessment of your faith in CODE./new order/James 315. But falling for two scams......wow. You can justify this with a claim to being drunk if it helps with the sting, but, that really does speak for itself. So how much ISK have you dumped into your third scam loss?


Who ganked you and why are you continually frothing at the mouth?

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Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#206 - 2014-10-20 18:54:09 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Um, wow, no.

Quite the opposite in fact. The pilots who gank the freighters do NOT share in the loot. The loot, is NOT shared with the gank pilots but instead, allegedly, goes to make up the deficit between donations and ISK expended reimbursing gank catalysts.

Can you quote even a single person in this thread alleging that CODE gank pilots get a share of the loot? I mean, not counting getting a replacement ~1m gank cat?


Getting free ships to gank with is a share of the loot when those ships were funded by previous loot. Shockingly some people gank just for fun.

RIP Richard A. Butt
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#207 - 2014-10-21 00:51:59 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I lost a sizeable amount of ISK in the Phaser Inc. ponzi scheme, when the scheme closed I fired an evemail to the guys involved containing a simple "GG o7". The guy who caught me, while drunk, with a margin trading scam got pretty much the same thing and some questions about how he managed to pull it off.

Even as the victim I'm capable of appreciating a well executed ingame scam.


The kind of blind faith required to fall for a ponzi scheme matches exactly with my assessment of your faith in CODE./new order/James 315. But falling for two scams......wow. You can justify this with a claim to being drunk if it helps with the sting, but, that really does speak for itself. So how much ISK have you dumped into your third scam loss?
Scams don't require faith as much as they require greed, I got greedy, my bad.

As for my investment in highsec content generation, specifically New Order shares, you can look it up for yourself here.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#208 - 2014-10-21 02:52:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
La Nariz wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I lost a sizeable amount of ISK in the Phaser Inc. ponzi scheme, when the scheme closed I fired an evemail to the guys involved containing a simple "GG o7". The guy who caught me, while drunk, with a margin trading scam got pretty much the same thing and some questions about how he managed to pull it off.

Even as the victim I'm capable of appreciating a well executed ingame scam.


The kind of blind faith required to fall for a ponzi scheme matches exactly with my assessment of your faith in CODE./new order/James 315. But falling for two scams......wow. You can justify this with a claim to being drunk if it helps with the sting, but, that really does speak for itself. So how much ISK have you dumped into your third scam loss?


Who ganked you and why are you continually frothing at the mouth?


Aw, it's so sweet to see you standing up for your buddy. And people say Goons are bad people. It's just not true at all, is it.

As for being ganked, no, sorry to disappoint, but the closest anyone ever came were a few Russians who tried to pop a shiny logi I was autopiloting through the usual route. It netted me quite a bit of ISK via KRs and some sweet tears. Why would you even assume that I dislike gankers? I've said nothing bad about them, nor about ganking. Quite the opposite is true in fact.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#209 - 2014-10-21 03:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I lost a sizeable amount of ISK in the Phaser Inc. ponzi scheme, when the scheme closed I fired an evemail to the guys involved containing a simple "GG o7". The guy who caught me, while drunk, with a margin trading scam got pretty much the same thing and some questions about how he managed to pull it off.

Even as the victim I'm capable of appreciating a well executed ingame scam.


The kind of blind faith required to fall for a ponzi scheme matches exactly with my assessment of your faith in CODE./new order/James 315. But falling for two scams......wow. You can justify this with a claim to being drunk if it helps with the sting, but, that really does speak for itself. So how much ISK have you dumped into your third scam loss?
Scams don't require faith as much as they require greed, I got greedy, my bad.

As for my investment in highsec content generation, specifically New Order shares, you can look it up for yourself here.


I think it's fair to say, with all due respect, that you are no expert in identifying scams, or their requirements, given that you admit to falling for them....three times now.

Well, two that you realize/understand. Roll

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#210 - 2014-10-21 06:45:37 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
I think it's fair to say, with all due respect, that you are no expert in identifying scams, or their requirements, given that you admit to falling for them....three times now.

Well, two that you realize/understand. Roll


It's only a scam when you don't get what you were promised. New Order shareholders get exactly what they were promised so I'm not really sure how your mind has managed to come to the conclusion of the whole thing being a scam.

RIP Richard A. Butt
Black Pedro
Mine.
#211 - 2014-10-21 08:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Princess Bride wrote:

I think it's fair to say, with all due respect, that you are no expert in identifying scams, or their requirements, given that you admit to falling for them....three times now.

Well, two that you realize/understand. Roll


No, I don't think that is fair to say at all. I would take the opinion of someone who has fallen for a scam or two and learned from it as worth something, only less than the opinion of a prolific scammer themselves.

But you still haven't made clear what the scam is here. Sure, there is the potential for a future scam like every other player run corporation or alliance in Eve, but to date, share buyers know exactly what they are getting with their share purchases and James 315 is delivering as judged by all the available evidence as described above in this thread.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#212 - 2014-10-21 13:29:28 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:

I think it's fair to say, with all due respect, that you are no expert in identifying scams, or their requirements, given that you admit to falling for them....three times now.

Well, two that you realize/understand. Roll


No, I don't think that is fair to say at all. I would take the opinion of someone who has fallen for a scam or two and learned from it as worth something, only less than the opinion of a prolific scammer themselves.

But you still haven't made clear what the scam is here. Sure, there is the potential for a future scam like every other player run corporation or alliance in Eve, but to date, share buyers know exactly what they are getting with their share purchases and James 315 is delivering as judged by all the available evidence as described above in this thread.


See, this is what I mean about not even understanding the very basic concepts of a scam. A scam only requires two elements:

1) A fool.
2) His money.

I've made my opinion on why this is a scam as clear as possible already in this thread. I don't expect a gaggle of people who are being scammed and don't even get it to agree with me of course, but there you are.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#213 - 2014-10-21 14:05:47 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
See, this is what I mean about not even understanding the very basic concepts of a scam. A scam only requires two elements:

1) A fool.
2) His money.
What happened to faith?

Quote:
I've made my opinion on why I think this is a scam as clear as possible already in this thread.
FTFY
Quote:
I don't expect a gaggle of people who are being scammed and don't even get it to agree with me of course, but there you are.
How are they being scammed if they know that the "shares" are actually donations, and that the money raised through "shares" will be used to fund a SRP for people who gank miners?

It's pretty much the equivalent of posting "Please send me some ISK! No scams, no bullshit, I just want some ISK to spend on exotic dancers and comedy shitfits, thanks" in local and people giving you money because they find it amusing*

*Yes this works, sometimes honesty is the best policy.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Black Pedro
Mine.
#214 - 2014-10-21 14:37:37 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:

See, this is what I mean about not even understanding the very basic concepts of a scam. A scam only requires two elements:

1) A fool.
2) His money.

I've made my opinion on why this is a scam as clear as possible already in this thread. I don't expect a gaggle of people who are being scammed and don't even get it to agree with me of course, but there you are.


Ok, that is clearer. You are of the opinion that New Order may turn into a scam some day, but actually have no evidence that it is currently a scam. Sorry, I was confused by some of your later posts which seemed to assert that shareholders were not getting exactly what they expected.

If that is what you believe, you probably shouldn't by shares then.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#215 - 2014-10-21 16:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
Veers Belvar wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
I can't take it anymore.

Q: Who gets the loot from ganking freighters?

A: The pilots who ganked it.

9 motherfucking pages for that?


I agree with you for once, buddy. The money goes to the individual pilots, not to CODE, etc....


Um, wow, no.

Quite the opposite in fact. The pilots who gank the freighters do NOT share in the loot. The loot, is NOT shared with the gank pilots but instead, allegedly, goes to make up the deficit between donations and ISK expended reimbursing gank catalysts.

Can you quote even a single person in this thread alleging that CODE gank pilots get a share of the loot? I mean, not counting getting a replacement ~1m gank cat?


I know the individual pilots - I happen to be something of an expert on this. Whoever grabs the loot gets it, some people choose to invest back in CODE, but that is at their discretion.


I go away from the eve forums for few days and we have a new expert on CODE? Shocked

I invite everyone with an interest in ganking to join fleets, and experience it for themselves!

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Formerly Known As AC
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#216 - 2014-10-21 17:50:17 UTC
My question still is. If the money is donated willingly, and no one cares about the ISK at all. How can it still be considered a scam?
Also goggles. You can't forget goggles!

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#217 - 2014-10-21 22:39:32 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
I can't take it anymore.

Q: Who gets the loot from ganking freighters?

A: The pilots who ganked it.

9 motherfucking pages for that?


I agree with you for once, buddy. The money goes to the individual pilots, not to CODE, etc....


Um, wow, no.

Quite the opposite in fact. The pilots who gank the freighters do NOT share in the loot. The loot, is NOT shared with the gank pilots but instead, allegedly, goes to make up the deficit between donations and ISK expended reimbursing gank catalysts.

Can you quote even a single person in this thread alleging that CODE gank pilots get a share of the loot? I mean, not counting getting a replacement ~1m gank cat?


I know the individual pilots - I happen to be something of an expert on this. Whoever grabs the loot gets it, some people choose to invest back in CODE, but that is at their discretion.


I go away from the eve forums for few days and we have a new expert on CODE? Shocked

I invite everyone with an interest in ganking to join fleets, and experience it for themselves!
It's Veers, he's an expert at not having a clue, rolling his face on the keyboard and drooling uncontrollably in anger because pretty much everyone thinks he's a clown.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#218 - 2014-10-22 01:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
See, this is what I mean about not even understanding the very basic concepts of a scam. A scam only requires two elements:

1) A fool.
2) His money.
What happened to faith?


What do you think makes the fool a fool?

Sure, greed can contribute, but faith is what puts the "confidence" in "confidence game" aka a "con" aka a scam.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Formerly Known As AC
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#219 - 2014-10-22 02:24:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
It's Veers, he's an expert at not having a clue, rolling his face on the keyboard and drooling uncontrollably in anger because pretty much everyone thinks he's a clown.


I would say quote of the year, however Dryson has posted recently.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Formerly Known As AC
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#220 - 2014-10-22 02:26:29 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
See, this is what I mean about not even understanding the very basic concepts of a scam. A scam only requires two elements:

1) A fool.
2) His money.
What happened to faith?


What do you think makes the fool a fool?

Sure, greed can contribute, but faith is what puts the "confidence" in "confidence game" aka a "con" aka a scam.



I am not sure how to else to make this any more clear so I am just going to have to do this. Please read it fully, and read any link or word that it contains that you also do not understand. Once you have done so, please sit back, think, and then respond. Maybe this will help.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate