EVE General Discussion

A Kestrel can't gank a properly fit Hulk.

OP isn't flying a Hulk.

Shhhhhh!

<_<
>_>
That's ok. I can do it. If you provide the modules, I'll test it for you.
No, that's just some nonsense the OP made up in his failed attempt to try to bolster the unfairness of it all. In the end, it turned out his 8M ship was ganked by a 3M ship. Most gank ships these days are in the 10–40M range (the target decides the price).

More to the point, if he's -10, you can kill him in his 500M ship as well — no need to wait until he shows up in a cheap(ish) gank ship. Just go and kill him, regardless of what he's flying, and you can do it for (next to) free. And finally, the whole thing revolves around a fallacy about what money buys you. Even if it was true that a 500k frigate could kill a 200M Hulk, there is no imbalance — cost is simply not a factor in determining what can kill what. What you buy for those 200M is the ultimate mining ship… and a tank is not included in the price. You can buy a big honking tank for the same price, but then you're buying something completely different.

It would probably work better if you didn't try to use so many words to say "I don't think you understand the changing paradigms in social media" or something similar. You DO write like an academic who wants people to know how educated you are. As an IT professional I don't find routers and servers to be particularly magical. Impressive yes, magical, no.

Found this in another thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t71cexWzvM&feature=player_embedded#!

That pretty much covers most of EVE 0.0 literally and metaphorically.

EVE is little more than a sandbox with bullies and some other bits attached to support that. If EVE closed tomorrow social media and gaming would notice their passing with a tip of the hat but that's about it. EVE isn't swimming in market share and it's also almost ten years old. It is NOT the cutting edge of social media. Furthermore CCP has fostered and catered to a group of people that pats itself on the back for being douchebags...in a game.

They promote bullying in face of the fact that most humans don't like being bullied...then they wonder what they need to do to bring in more subscriptions.

It's really sort of sad to watch.

The current generation of potential customers is even more obsessed with entitlement and immediate gratification than ever before and if their entertainment doesn't deliver, they won't pay for it. Don't kid yourself into thinking this game, or whatever label you want to place on it, is the bleeding edge of social media. It's more like a well-used shank sitting on a dusty shelf in someones garage with some rust and blood spots on it.

Despite it's age and experience and large number of genuinely good points, people are still not lining up to play EVE.

Most humans don't want to be bullied. Many people like to READ about what happens in EVE but most of that is schadenfreude. Most humans don't want to actually LIVE a null-sec lifestyle, even in a game. A lot of people play this game to relax and unwind with some mindless activity.

Perhaps you observed some of this?

CCP needs to HTFU and get with the program if they want to expand their player base. Like really making EVE more of a virtual world where all parts are supported rather than just the bullies in the sandbox.

Its not that hard try to start one .. and include morals and ethics .. you will be successful.

what ?

quote G.Carlin

Boy everyone is running around yammering about their ******* rights. “I have a right, you have no right, we have a right.”

Folks I hate to spoil your fun, but… there’s no such thing as rights. They’re imaginary. We made ‘em up. Like the boogie man. Like Three Little Pigs, Pinocio, Mother Goose, **** like that. Rights are an idea. They’re just imaginary. They’re a cute idea. Cute. But that’s all. Cute…and fictional. But if you think you do have rights, let me ask you this, “where do they come from?” People say, “They come from God. They’re God given rights.” Awww ****, here we go again…here we go again.

Personally when it comes to rights, I think one of two things is true: either we have unlimited rights, or we have no rights at all.

Yep. Eve in a nutshell.

I have a set of laws of nature (game mechanics) and ironclad consequences for certain actions (CONCORD). So long as I act within what the laws of nature allow me to do, and decide to accept whatever consequences (for whatever reason I deem worthwhile), I may do what I will.

In RL, I doubt anyone is immune to assassination by a sufficiently motivated (read: suicidal) assassin (or group thereof), no matter how well protected; the Assassin would certainly die, but the target would likely be killed first.

In Eve, Nobody is immune to assassination by a sufficiently motivated (read: suicidal) assassin (or group thereof), no matter how well protected; the Assassin's ship would certainly be destroyed, but the target would likely be destroyed first.

Sounds like Eve mimics real life.

As to the repeated ganks against one pilot; the Goons have been killing all Gallente Ice miners for MONTHS. They have a profit motive (or some other motive than causing an individual misery [they've exhaustively and publicly described how they're making the money, so...]}.

In EVE, Griefing is defined as... wait, it's not defined as anything (http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp). The Terms and Conditions do not mention Greifing, Harassment, or any other in game interference with the activities of other players.

Even if it were (and IIRC it was once), in practice, any motive other than strictly causing a single player misery makes the activity A-OK with CCP.

Yes, though I think we are bit lost in translation as english isn't my main and perhaps I do tend to use an overly "academical" language it's more out of the need to properly place an idea rather than sound foppish, even if end up not correctly conveying said idea and end up sound exactly in the way I don't.

Yet despite some misgivings, as I wasn't exactly catering to EVE as a the cream of the top in technology I was being more general in scope, you still managed to approach, as all venues circling around the TRUTH do, the same topic but from a different perspective, and this I enjoy severely, as we can finally connect on the core, which you can , in a sense, describe as the part of your post I decided to leave in the quote.

Although I find the give and take, back and forth of verbal swordsmanship this 20 pages long thread is delivering specially from some people, I find that the underlying idea is what I said and what you ... uh , kindly put in words before.

We are seeing an estrangement and play style alienation of the user base, which I decided to term "crystallization" for a word that could lend itself to explain visually in your mind.

Thus, my original query from CCP remains, they need to set a solid standard in their product regarding the direction of the "Spaceship PEW PEW" concept and the "bullies" which are more to my understanding people as estranged in their mindset as the people they blow up for lulz fixated in their own version of how the world should be.

CCP will be the final arbiter in a clear separation (and further alienation) or the reconciliation (of sorts, I'm not an idealist) of these mindsets.

I can hear the words of the roaring beasts in the night crying that if I could think this through more, I could see in the end that we as players will need to police ourselves and do what we can within the existing ruleset, yet I counter with a simple motion of my hand to this thread.

We are reaching slowly the boiling point where the two mindsets (of many) are beginning to clash in a very real sense and will simply being to erode.

Now, why perhaps I take this too seriously or sometimes I seem to over analyze it? Easy, the EVE Ruleset, the way the whole game works is for me a big social experiment. Unlike games with classes, levels and easily identifiable social canons that denote supposed rank or prestige or any other social token of our place in a ladder, eve RE CREATES, willingly or not the rough social pecking orders of human society in a whole new world of possibilities.

Ebuyers come here piloting titans without understanding crap of politics or the way to "properly"play. Even a couple weeks old char recognizes their odd behavior and mannerisms. We have created here a truly virtual society, an arcology of sorts that fascinates me beyond measure in that by simple observation I can recreate and extrapolate social behavior possibilities by just looking at the trends in type and quality of posts and correlating to inner experiences in the field.

Wish I could share with you more but that will have to suffice. That's why I'm still a bit nervous regarding CCP's current actions as I don't know if they realize they have enough metadata to understand how this game can keep being profitable almost eternally by using their natural social balance tendencies.

See, Incarna for example, was in layman terms the bunch of rats nested in an overcrowded box that went berzerk and killed each other to reach equilibrium and now that we are slowly leaving the flux behind, It is the duty of CCP itself to understand the monster they have created, keeping it loose is as profiteering for them as just playing a random lottery number and hoping to win.

Certain threads on which I post selectively in a more serious manner (unlike others on which I just troll, I'm human) are like little red dots blinking over and over and completely contradict a previous social dissertation I had about the forums not being useful for anything, whereas my eyes have been opened and digest these forums with almost gluttonous glee now.

This interesting debate is beautiful, and shows how humane this game is in contrast to more dull and themepark-like others are, where communities are blander and less prone to real and well constructed outbursts.

Perhaps It has something to do with the demographics of the game and the degrees of education of the community, don't know what it is, but this is the only forum I gladly would pay to access and contribute.

Back on topic I believe we need a paradigm shift, a precursor to our own virtual singularity, the potential is there, just read this thread, pure gold.

Posting in an epic whine thread.

Indeed.

There are any number of games on the market that offer completely safe area's of play. Yet despite years of repeated posts, dev blogs, and advertising there are still many players that don't understand that EVE is not, and will never be, one of those games.

There will always be an element of risk involved. It is the fundamental corner stone of the game.

If you wish to pursue a non-violent path in your EVE existence such as mining, your challenge is to succeed in that role WHILE avoiding violence directed against you. Some area's of the EVE environment make that task simpler, other area's make it more difficult, but the fundamental challenge remains the same.

It is the gritty nature of the sand in our sand box.

Games that offer purely consensual combat, or area's where combat is impossible, are not sand box games in any sense of the word. There your adversaries are completely prevented from engaging you, regardless of whether you play well or are AFK mindlessly racking up imaginary funds.

Whether you realize it or not, if EVE were to ever go that route it would lose it's unique appeal in the gaming industry, and would quickly lose it's player base... both PVP oriented and PVE oriented alike. The value of the items you acquire in EVE have value primarily due to the fact that unless you are on your toes somebody can (and will) take those items from you.

So learn to fight, or learn to evade, but stop trying to remove the need to do either by changing the basic premise of the game.