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Repurpose the Gas Cloud Harvesting skill
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Madeleine Lemmont
Ars Vivendi
#21 - 2014-08-04 15:36:24 UTC
+1

The idea sounds useful.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#22 - 2014-10-18 15:50:10 UTC
Incidentally I've been thinking of this myself - replace the prospects sig reduction to a second gas harvester reduction of say just 2.5% per level per expedition frigate level. This would add some real value to the hull and do two things:

1. Mean it doesn't take nearly an hour to fill its ore hold.

2. Is still tivially easy to scan down.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#23 - 2014-10-18 17:28:19 UTC
Sorry for dropping by!

I was thinking about the cycle time reduction and yield increase but don't both do the same?

Think about this,

you decrase the cycle time so you harvest more per time or
you increase the yield and harvest more per time

both cases fill your orebay quicker or don't they?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#24 - 2014-10-19 03:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Scuzzy Logic
On the other hand, we could get an expedition frigate with 5 highs, a gas hold and some sort of gas explosion resistant T2 shield resist profile.
Make it sh*t at everything else, of course. Something like 1 mid 2 lows, just enough for 1WCS, a DCU and an afterburner...

Make the bonuses to something like: harvester cap use, shield recharge time / harvester cycle, gas hold

That way it can harvest null gas without dying and be useful in WHs.
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#25 - 2014-10-19 03:58:41 UTC
Saint Germain wrote:
[quote=Arronicus]

I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.



Or bring forth the 8 harvester battleship. Having a 5-of limit would be rather random. Plus huffing in my sieged paladin would make ppl think I'm huffing more paint fumes than fullerenes.
Ben Ishikela
#26 - 2014-10-19 06:52:30 UTC
+1 for -5%CycleTime.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#27 - 2014-10-19 07:48:07 UTC
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Saint Germain wrote:
[quote=Arronicus]

I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.



Or bring forth the 8 harvester battleship. Having a 5-of limit would be rather random. Plus huffing in my sieged paladin would make ppl think I'm huffing more paint fumes than fullerenes.


Well if you could imagine that the prospect under the current scheme getting 3 turret hard points. At this time it would *have* to drop its cloak in to a mobile depot but in exchange it gets at least 1 full harvester more worth of gas per cycle than a 5-harvester ship.. which iirc gets less than a fully skilled venture/prospect now anyway but only by like 0.5 of a harvester. So maybe the overall bonus would climb to like 2 effective harvesters more? I cannot in to math right now.
poppeteer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-10-19 10:08:48 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Try mining exploding gas in a Venture. I'll wait.

Been there, done that, sold gas. What was your point exactly?
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-10-19 11:07:59 UTC
A'Tolkar wrote:
Saint Germain wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? .


Yes.

There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant.

For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining.

The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place.

Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now.


I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.


At least some people can read the OP. In fact I could have sworn that I said something along these lines:

And if there is some worry about someone putting 8 gas cloud harvester II's on a Battleship (I say let them) ...
OK, so at the end I implied that if CCP thought removing the limit and allowing 8 harvesters on a BS was OP, then limit them to Mining Frigate class ships.

And this: Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining? :)

I mean really? WHY?



First, apparently you didn't read your OWN post.

A'Tolkar wrote:
and that is a bad idea, then make it so they can only be fitted onto Mining Frigates (Venture/Prospect).


Second, I already explained why; the venture and prospect cannot handle nullsec group gas mining.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#30 - 2014-10-19 12:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Arronicus wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
and that is a bad idea, then make it so they can only be fitted onto Mining Frigates (Venture/Prospect).


Second, I already explained why; the venture and prospect cannot handle nullsec group gas mining.


Who told you that? The Prospect very well can handle the gas clouds. The AOE waves are no problems and the rats are killed by a fleet member in a Sin/Ishtar or otherwise combat capable ship.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#31 - 2014-10-19 13:35:32 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
and that is a bad idea, then make it so they can only be fitted onto Mining Frigates (Venture/Prospect).


Second, I already explained why; the venture and prospect cannot handle nullsec group gas mining.


Who told you that? The Prospect very well can handle the gas clouds. The AOE waves are no problems and the rats are killed by a fleet member in a Sin/Ishtar or otherwise combat capable ship.


The prospect was advertised as a way for people to ninja mine rocks and gas in wh and nullsec (apparently). This perception has led people to believe that it should be able to do these things solo... which iirc has never really been a strong design element for anything outside of low end highsec content.

That's where people are getting stuck.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#32 - 2014-10-19 15:09:44 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
and that is a bad idea, then make it so they can only be fitted onto Mining Frigates (Venture/Prospect).


Second, I already explained why; the venture and prospect cannot handle nullsec group gas mining.


Who told you that? The Prospect very well can handle the gas clouds. The AOE waves are no problems and the rats are killed by a fleet member in a Sin/Ishtar or otherwise combat capable ship.


The prospect was advertised as a way for people to ninja mine rocks and gas in wh and nullsec (apparently). This perception has led people to believe that it should be able to do these things solo... which iirc has never really been a strong design element for anything outside of low end highsec content.

That's where people are getting stuck.


It can do gas mine solo in Null sec, you just have to choose the right gas site. Belt mining is also doable solo, but obviously you have to use a different fitting for that and probably have to warp away when rats appear in your belt. A lot of things are doable solo in the Prospect, you just have to do it right. Big smile

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#33 - 2014-10-19 15:24:09 UTC
why repurpose when you could just add another skill instead?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ix Method
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-10-19 16:06:57 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
why repurpose when you could just add another skill instead?

Why add another skill when you could just repurpose instead?

This is fun.

+1 to the cycle time suggestion particularly with the lack of available upgrades, half an hour of trying to (sorta) pay attention while basically nothing happens is nigh on impossible, anything that reduces this gets love from me.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Mario Condello
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2014-10-20 01:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Condello
Most of Es and Whizz are on board for a re-purposing of this skill, and it seems like the best option is to increase the amount harvested. I'm not really for decreasing the cycle time as I feel it's a bit OP and will leave the skill as a 'must train to V'

Here's the math (using fudged numbers to make it easier to understand):

Lets say base cycle time is 60 seconds, amount harvested is 60 units/cycle, or 1 unit/second

Decreasing cycle time by 5%/level ends up with a 25% reduction in cycle time at level V, so

60 * .75 = 45 second cycle = 1.333 unit/second

Increasing yield by 5%/level ends up with 25% increase in yield per cycle at level V, so

60 * 1.25 = 75 unit cycle = 1.25 units/second


Scuzzy Logic wrote:
On the other hand, we could get an expedition frigate with 5 highs, a gas hold and some sort of gas explosion resistant T2 shield resist profile.


When the Prospect was announced I was sure it would have a high natural resistance to EM/Therm, as all other T2 ships have high natural resistance to their traditional enemy (think Minnie with that stupid high EM/Therm resistance to deal with the Amarr lasers). I hope they look at this at some stage.
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