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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2014-10-18 19:31:53 UTC
You should probably stop avoiding the question if you are trying to make a point here.

Nothing you just posted says those players are in space or losing ships while doing things that do not place them in direct competition with other players.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#22 - 2014-10-18 19:39:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
Bullock Brawn wrote:
The EvE is just a PVP game is so very old.

Really, comments like that are like a child saying school is just for social bullying.

Wake up fellows and start reading a little more.

1) Look up the most ship kills (NPC kills are at minimum 100 to 1 to PVP kills).
2) Look up players is space (High Sec is far more populated)
3) Look up how much time is logged doing PVE activities vs PVP stuff... PVE has far more time spent.

Why in the world wouldn't you want PVE to get better in all areas for all player bases.


It's a PVE game with PVP experiences thrown in to get past the boredom.

You're playing your own game boys, let others play theirs.

or come up with better reasons for posting, you add zero to the discussion by saying EVE is this or that!


Do you know what Apocrypha or Incursion are?

Oh, and upon reading your post despite you ignored mine:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5130223#post5130223
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-10-18 19:43:25 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
You should probably stop avoiding the question if you are trying to make a point here.

Nothing you just posted says those players are in space or losing ships while doing things that do not place them in direct competition with other players.



to be more direct...

I am talking about combat in general. Mission Running.

There are plenty of Indy and Market Opportunities for advanced game play in High Sec already.

Regarding losing ships... I've lost ships many times both in PVP and PVE with other characters I've played over the years. In High Sec and PVP areas.

The most comfortable loses are always PVE related where the game is balanced and I needed to up my game.
The times I've lost ships in Low and Null are boring, uneventful trash encounters with absolutely no element of good game play for either side. To setup a Gate Camp is the weakest game design I've ever seen in a game and has nothing resembling competition. If you're a gate camper ganker, you are cheating your own game and living a lie that you're amazing at PVP.

This game has some cool PVP parts, but space battles for part time solo players, just isn't there, sorry! The only thing that's left if PVE. I don't give a rats what the forum trolls think, as I post for CCP to see the player interests.

This same crowd, shot down The Skill Queue change and Single spawn rats (Burner missions) and those are great adds to the game.... of which I've posted many times before they were introduced.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#24 - 2014-10-18 19:44:41 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
You should probably stop avoiding the question if you are trying to make a point here.

Nothing you just posted says those players are in space or losing ships while doing things that do not place them in direct competition with other players.



to be more direct...

I am talking about combat in general. Mission Running.

There are plenty of Indy and Market Opportunities for advanced game play in High Sec already.

Regarding losing ships... I've lost ships many times both in PVP and PVE with other characters I've played over the years. In High Sec and PVP areas.

The most comfortable loses are always PVE related where the game is balanced and I needed to up my game.
The times I've lost ships in Low and Null are boring, uneventful trash encounters with absolutely no element of good game play for either side. To setup a Gate Camp is the weakest game design I've ever seen in a game and has nothing resembling competition. If you're a gate camper ganker, you are cheating your own game and living a lie that you're amazing at PVP.

This game has some cool PVP parts, but space battles for part time solo players, just isn't there, sorry! The only thing that's left if PVE. I don't give a rats what the forum trolls think, as I post for CCP to see the player interests.

This same crowd, shot down The Skill Queue change and Single spawn rats (Burner missions) and those are great adds to the game.... of which I've posted many times before they were introduced.



It would be awesome if you stopped dodging my questions. Also again, for your reading pleasure:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5130223#post5130223
Mag's
Azn Empire
#25 - 2014-10-18 19:46:22 UTC
I can think of one, but only because Tippia pointed it out. Oops

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-10-18 19:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullock Brawn
Kaerakh wrote:

It would be awesome if you stopped dodging my questions. Also again, for your reading pleasure:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5130223#post5130223



Apocrypha

Release date: March 10, 2009

At Fanfest 2008 it was announced that instead of a six-month gap between expansions the subsequent expansion to Quantum Rise, Apocrypha, would be released on March 10, 2009. This expansion included a training queue, Tech 3 vessels, and exploration of uncharted space through unstable wormholes.[38][39] Apocrypha has improved NPCs' artificial intelligence and has added a new NPC faction to the game, the Sleepers.[40]

Apocrypha 1.5 was released on August 20, 2009 and considered by CCP to be a mini-expansion. CCP felt that Apocrypha was released very early for a Summer expansion, and that they had enough content ready to go for it to be classified as more than a patch.[41] The new mini-expansion brought to EVE four more epic mission arcs, new rig sizes, specialized cargo bays for specific ships, and performance enhancements for their Factional Warfare.

Apocrypha ended official support for Linux operating systems




Is that what you're talking about.. I don't see it having anything to do with making EVE a PVP game exclusively.

This post has nothing to do with PVP areas or removing PVP content. If that floats your boat, great!
You are lost in an illusion if you think CCP thinks this game is only a PVP game. To them it's a money game, where they are trying to keep high end players to fund their show!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#27 - 2014-10-18 19:57:14 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:


Really, comments like that are like a child saying school is just for social bullying.



did you just equate PvP to bullying??
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#28 - 2014-10-18 19:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:

It would be awesome if you stopped dodging my questions. Also again, for your reading pleasure:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5130223#post5130223



Apocrypha

Release date: March 10, 2009

At Fanfest 2008 it was announced that instead of a six-month gap between expansions the subsequent expansion to Quantum Rise, Apocrypha, would be released on March 10, 2009. This expansion included a training queue, Tech 3 vessels, and exploration of uncharted space through unstable wormholes.[38][39] Apocrypha has improved NPCs' artificial intelligence and has added a new NPC faction to the game, the Sleepers.[40]

Apocrypha 1.5 was released on August 20, 2009 and considered by CCP to be a mini-expansion. CCP felt that Apocrypha was released very early for a Summer expansion, and that they had enough content ready to go for it to be classified as more than a patch.[41] The new mini-expansion brought to EVE four more epic mission arcs, new rig sizes, specialized cargo bays for specific ships, and performance enhancements for their Factional Warfare.

Apocrypha ended official support for Linux operating systems


Is that what you're talking about.. I don't see it having anything to do with giving non-pvp players more advance combat options.

This post has nothing to do with PVP areas or removing PVP content. If that floats your boat, great!
You are lost in an illusion if you think CCP thinks this game is only a PVP game. To them it's a money game, where they are trying to keep high end players to fund their show!


Actually it does, but you see so much red that you can't see how it is directly related to the fact that CCP explicitly state in the FAQ that I linked to that PVP is prevalent in all areas and recognized as not only a valid, but accepted and encouraged form of play. (not a quote)

So ergo, Apocrypha and Incursion are precisely what you're asking for.

I also just want to point out that my linked posts are related in the fact that they accurately characterize your point of view.

Edit: I made the important bits extra special so you could recognize them more easily since you seem to have a tendency to get tunnel vision.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2014-10-18 19:57:55 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
You should probably stop avoiding the question if you are trying to make a point here.

Nothing you just posted says those players are in space or losing ships while doing things that do not place them in direct competition with other players.



to be more direct...

I am talking about combat in general. Mission Running.

There are plenty of Indy and Market Opportunities for advanced game play in High Sec already.

Regarding losing ships... I've lost ships many times both in PVP and PVE with other characters I've played over the years. In High Sec and PVP areas.

The most comfortable loses are always PVE related where the game is balanced and I needed to up my game.
The times I've lost ships in Low and Null are boring, uneventful trash encounters with absolutely no element of good game play for either side. To setup a Gate Camp is the weakest game design I've ever seen in a game and has nothing resembling competition. If you're a gate camper ganker, you are cheating your own game and living a lie that you're amazing at PVP.

This game has some cool PVP parts, but space battles for part time solo players, just isn't there, sorry! The only thing that's left if PVE. I don't give a rats what the forum trolls think, as I post for CCP to see the player interests.

This same crowd, shot down The Skill Queue change and Single spawn rats (Burner missions) and those are great adds to the game.... of which I've posted many times before they were introduced.


Markets, Missions (via LP sales), Industry, mining, all of these things involve direct competition with other players. Which is what PVP is.

Also, can you find one single game involving combat of any description that doesnyt feature chokepoints?

(And mission running is so far removed from combat, it isn't even funny.)



Also, the point about Apocrypha was the introduction of wormholes. Which feature high end PVE content. For groups or solo players.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#30 - 2014-10-18 20:51:19 UTC
You might want to modify the title to 'Add more reward to non-pvp game' because that's what you really mean. You will modify your ISbox fleet to make it an easy button, no matter what level of difficulty they apply.

Frankly I'd rather see them focus attention on making me asset rich rather than ISK rich. I don't run level 4 missions. It isn't because they are easy or hard or I don't make enough ISK. It's because they are garbage factories and I'd rather sit in Jita and buy the garbage in bulk. The amount of T2 salvage I have in Jita I would need 10 years to loot myself and while I accept that aspect of EVE, I would like an opportunity to loot at least a few of those things myself without feeling like I am in a prison chain gang.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-10-18 21:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullock Brawn
How this thread quickly turns to defending PVP is so typical of forum vets.

This is not a nerf PVP thread, it's a make non-PVP combat more interesting as you progress in game.

1) Most games have levels as players progress through the ranks of game play.
2) Each level adds more dynamic and difficult content to the game.
3) Said levels have bosses that are more challenging to the player.
4) CCP encourages Multiple accounts (I get adverts all the time and buy into the deal)
5) CCP should have content that is not in PVP designated areas that allows the promoted multiple account player to progress and still be challenged.
6) They currently are lacking in this area; as there is a void between level 4 missions and Incursions for non-PVP oriented game play.

How is that threatening all that is right with the world..... ladies?
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#32 - 2014-10-18 21:15:28 UTC
There's progression in EVE too, after you are no longer a noob, you leave hisec.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#33 - 2014-10-18 21:23:17 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
How this thread quickly turns to defending PVP is so typical of forum vets.

This is not a nerf PVP thread, it's a make non-PVP combat more interesting as you progress in game.

1) Most games have levels as players progress through the ranks of game play.
2) Each level adds more dynamic and difficult content to the game.
3) Said levels have bosses that are more challenging to the player.
4) CCP encourages Multiple accounts (I get adverts all the time and buy into the deal)
5) CCP should have content that is not in PVP designated areas that allows the promoted multiple account player to progress and still be challenged.
6) They currently are lacking in this area; as there is a void between level 4 missions and Incursions for non-PVP oriented game play.

How is that threatening all that is right with the world..... ladies?


While multi-boxing is encouraged to a degree, having to push a "solution" to there being a gap in progression from l4 missions (designed as intermediate solo play, or beginner group play) and incursions (designed as direct competition for high end pilots with rewards commensurate to the SP and ship investment, i.e. one of the possible definitions of "end game play") being available in highsec (one of 4 primary space types, and the one which is least player driven, the tightest rules on the sandbox and thus the least risk, leading to lower possible isk rewards) is asking to be a special snowflake. If you want something PVE and more difficult and thus rewarding, leave highsec or step up and run incursions. Commitment + Barrier to entry + risk + investment (SP, ship/fit, and PLAYER SKILLS) are what determines how profitable an activity is designed to be.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#34 - 2014-10-18 21:24:15 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
3) Look up how much time is logged doing PVE activities vs PVP stuff... PVE has far more time spent.
Because a level 4 will take an hour whereas a low-sec small-gang fight is over in five minutes. Difference is that small-gang fight is a hell of a lot more fun. P
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#35 - 2014-10-18 21:36:56 UTC
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
Bullock Brawn wrote:
3) Look up how much time is logged doing PVE activities vs PVP stuff... PVE has far more time spent.
Because a level 4 will take an hour whereas a low-sec small-gang fight is over in five minutes. Difference is that small-gang fight is a hell of a lot more fun. P

Wouldn't say an hour, would say much longer than 5 minutes. Also, PvE tends to be farmable whenever there is free time, while PvP needs either a good enough player to do solo right or enough of your buddies on to put up a gang.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Lugh Crow-Slave
#36 - 2014-10-18 21:41:57 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
How this thread quickly turns to defending PVP is so typical of forum vets.

This is not a nerf PVP thread, it's a make non-PVP combat more interesting as you progress in game.

1) Most games have levels as players progress through the ranks of game play.
2) Each level adds more dynamic and difficult content to the game.
3) Said levels have bosses that are more challenging to the player.
4) CCP encourages Multiple accounts (I get adverts all the time and buy into the deal)
5) CCP should have content that is not in PVP designated areas that allows the promoted multiple account player to progress and still be challenged.
6) They currently are lacking in this area; as there is a void between level 4 missions and Incursions for non-PVP oriented game play.

How is that threatening all that is right with the world..... ladies?


1st don't try to argue a change with "other games have it" doesn't go over well.


2nd its not a threat but it does mean dev time is used up to implement such a thing dev time that could be used to improve other areas of the game
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#37 - 2014-10-18 22:16:19 UTC
Quote:
You're playing your own game boys, let others play theirs.

While that is a nice thing to say, it unfortunately doesn't work out too well in a game centered around conflict and competition. In EVE your PvE activities affect PvPers in some way... which means that the system must allow for PvPers to affect them back.

So yeah... EVE is a PvP game at its core. PvE is a way to facilitate it.
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-10-18 23:53:50 UTC
James Baboli wrote:

While multi-boxing is encouraged to a degree, having to push a "solution" to there being a gap in progression from l4 missions (designed as intermediate solo play, or beginner group play) and incursions (designed as direct competition for high end pilots with rewards commensurate to the SP and ship investment, i.e. one of the possible definitions of "end game play") being available in highsec (one of 4 primary space types, and the one which is least player driven, the tightest rules on the sandbox and thus the least risk, leading to lower possible isk rewards) is asking to be a special snowflake. If you want something PVE and more difficult and thus rewarding, leave highsec or step up and run incursions. Commitment + Barrier to entry + risk + investment (SP, ship/fit, and PLAYER SKILLS) are what determines how profitable an activity is designed to be.



That is very well said...


Keep in mind however, although I am framing more advanced HS combat from a Multibox point of view as that's my game play style. Many small groups of players (friends, family) with 4 or less could also benefit from an Incursion Lite (something real, not Scout) or lower pay level 5's.

To those who think a 5 minute PVP battle is a great time; I would disagree and suggest that is your play style. In a game as big as EVE regarding player base, you just don't get to decide what is fun for others. As is, the High Sec PVP mechanics are working well and there is no reason to change that; as is Low and Null mechanics. Adding value to small fleets PVE activity threatens no one in the PVP community, in fact it adds more profitable targets; if that's your fun zone.

Why does PVE have to be predictable or boring? The challenge is up to Dev's to make them a variable instead of a cheat sheet. Then perhaps all players would welcome more of this type of content.
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-10-19 00:08:19 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Quote:
You're playing your own game boys, let others play theirs.

While that is a nice thing to say, it unfortunately doesn't work out too well in a game centered around conflict and competition. In EVE your PvE activities affect PvPers in some way... which means that the system must allow for PvPers to affect them back.

So yeah... EVE is a PvP game at its core. PvE is a way to facilitate it.



That is your point of view and how you enjoy the game. I could spin it the other way just as easy and say due to the fact that PVE content if far more used, it facilitates the ability to play the game period, no matter your career path. Non-PVP combat (of which I am only speaking; not indy or market) does mix well to conflict as it drives the sale of new ships, mods, loss (if they were more difficult), etc...... Half full or Half empty. The fact remains that non-PVP/PVE-combat in this game is in need of progression and or change, thus the post...

Another fact is if a player doesn't get his or her kicks off other players tears, there is no changing them and they just won't play any other way. Accept the fact that you share this sandbox with others who think differently. No EVE isn't a PVP-Combat core game, PVP as a whole = yes, but not combat... So few legit fights, no arenas, no sanctioned matchs for the solo players,, I can go on, but why, vets will just argue the glory of EVE pvp and bask in a High Sec station while they post.

Question

Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#40 - 2014-10-19 02:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
I can see that you are a well reasoned man that engages other people's points and doesn't just cherry pick what he wants to hear. I so glad that you realize that this is a PVP game and that you willingly and self admittedly partake in the game's PVP. I'm so glad that you were reasonable enough to come to an understanding of why your previous original post was so incredibly and stereotypically wrong.


Wouldn't that be a wonderful alternate universe to live in. It's clear the OP doesn't want to discuss anything and just wants to cry about how he didn't do any research on what this game was actually about and wishes all the mean spirited evil malicious griefers to go away.

I'm done here. I said my piece.