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Incursions should be in low/null sec
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fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2011-12-10 18:37:49 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Cearain wrote:
Arazel Chainfire wrote:

Lowsec FW missions - lvl 4 missions can be done in a stealth bomber. As for your mission showing up in local... that might matter if you had to do more than kill a few ships in a site. And of course, there is no detriment to not completing it except you don't get paid - no standing hit, nothing. You can go ahead, accept a dozen or so, and go out on a long binge running them, just abandoning the systems that are being camped, and leading those following you on a merry chase. Of course, it is still lowsec, and there are all sorts of people actively trying to kill you, which is why this ranks as the third highest risk on my list

Lowsec missions (lvl 4's and lvl 5's) - so you are running missions, which generally require a specific tank, are hard to do in something non-expensive, unless you sacrifice mobility, and if you do sacrifice mobility you get caught by pirates. You are everyones favorite target - jucy, can't really fight back... they just have to catch you to kill you.

nullsec ratting (red space) - remember how I said that ratting in blue space, you have intel channels and PvPer's wanting to kill you... yeah... red space, the OTHER side has the intel channels and is trying to kill you - and they have bubbles... this is really not worth the risk, unless you're jumping systems in a bomber to rat up your sec status...

So as we can see here, the only place that there is any significant risk is in lowsec, or NBSI nullsec (when you aren't blue). However, since lowsec is the graveyard of eve, where ideas go to die, and won't be fixed short of CCP actually coming up with a general plan for how they want their game to work, I say that we just ignore that and compare the others. And of them, WH's have the most risk (fitting, because you can get the most isk there solo, and the most isk there in groups), followed by incursions (grouped, you can get more isk there than anywhere else other than WH space), followed by blue nullsec (which is mostly solo play), then by lvl 4's, and lastly by highsec exploration (which is more like gambling, and less like isk/hour). Also generally according to this risk analysis is how much they pay for the average player. Once again, only lowsec is the outlier, being the most risky, and not having that great of reward.

So if we ignore lowsec, the biggest factor seperating the isk amounts for the various activities is how many people are flying together. Here incursions have the highest, followed by WH's, with exploration, mission running, and nullsec ratting all being solo activities. The only problem with incursions is that vanguards are more profitable than assaults/HQ's. Are incursions an isk faucet? Yes. Are WH's an isk faucet? Yes. Are nullsec anomalies an isk faucet? Yes. Are lvl 4 missions an isk faucet? Yes. Yay - everything is an isk faucet! Lets nerf it all so that way mining makes the most isk...

Now, STFU, choose the isk faucet of your choice, and stop whining.

-Arazel


Try doing faction missions for amarr solo in a stealth bomber. Tell me how that works. I do them in a bc and often have to warp out. As far as other factions (like caldari) where you can do them solo everyone pretty much agrees that needs to change. Yes even those in fw.

I think you left npc null sec out. I'm glad you mention that the risk in low sec is much higher. There is usually at least someone in local who is going to see exactly where you are trying to mission. Trying to collect 12 missions will likely take over an hour just to collect them. And you haven't earned any isk.

You seem to acknowledge low sec clearly has more risk. I doubt you can make the same isk from level 5s unless you are in a carrier and then you are just begging to get ganked. Even then I have my doubts with the lp store getting hammered by incursion runners. But then you want to ignore low sec. Thats pretty convenient.

The question really is why should high sec incursions make 2-4xs what other high sec pve makes? How is that balanced? Why is ccp so intent on driving away casual players who don't have large blocks of time to form fleets.


because"they" want people to group together maybe?


then come kick your lazy blue alliance ******* arse maybe?

candy off a baby.
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#82 - 2011-12-10 20:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nemo deBlanc
Quote:

Would I like to see lowsec buffed? Hell yes. As it is right now it is the wasteland of eve - it is where ideas go to die. Something does need to be done for lowsec... and with the amount of attention it gets from CCP, perhaps making all lowsec into NPC nullsec is the way to go - then it might actually get some attention.

As for the risk/reward ratio, aside from lowsec everythign else is consistent. This one blight upon the face of the game is getting idiots like you to claim "everything is broken, it must get nerfed".

And tell us this - how does income break eve? I seem to remember up to about 6 months ago that everyone was complaining that lvl 4 missions break eve because they are common, they pay to much, and they should all be moved to lowsec because they break the game. Then the general population figured out that incursions actually pay pretty decently (not all of them... there are still a few idiots making threads about moving lvl 4's to lowsec), and since then it has all been whines about how incursions break eve, and they should be nerfed and moved to lowsec. What is it really about for you? Are you upset that other people are playing in a different playstyle from you? Or are you upset that you aren't on top of the heap for isk making?

Or is it that you feel that with so much isk, it isn't a big deal to loose a t2 ship? Or to loose a battleship? Or that more people are able to afford capital ships/t3's, etc? Personally, I like that more people have more isk. Having more isk tends to lead to people being more willing to loose said isk, and when you can afford to purchase a new t2 cruiser after 3 hours, instead of after 10 hours, you are more likely to fly that t2 cruiser and experiment with it.


Quit being so butthurt and exaggerating what I'm saying. It's making you look bad. Nowhere did I explicitly claim incursions need a nerf per say. I'm asking for balance. CCP needs to decide what the new normal is, and try to trend income levels closer to that point. Whether that means buffing everything else, or nerfing incursions is their call. But the current level of income distribution IS broken; whether you care to admit it or not.

Quote:

Aha! Finally to the heart of the matter... you want to get paid for PvP, and PvP is very risky, so therefore it should pay the most. Guess what... you don't get paid to kill other players, unless you're a pirate and that is just a matter of looting their fresh, still warm corpse. And when looting a full t2 corpse might pay all of 5 mil, it doesn't make much. You know... you could have just bypassed all that typing and started a new thread in general discussion that said "remove PvE from the game, PvP should pay isk" and left it at that. You would probably get a lot more people agreeing with you, and if CCP ever made that change you would be a happy camper until the server shut down 6 months later because the majority of players left. Unless of course it went all free to play, and then you would have other things to complain about then too.

-Arazel


I've got no problem with PvE. I think it's a very important part of the game-one that I happen to enjoy quite regularly-. And no, use your brain and stop trolling.

I'm not saying pvp should pay more directly. I'm saying that PvP should pay more in resource acquisition, not necessarily in direct payout from loot. There needs to be more incentive to ruin other people's days, and overall income needs a buff. You and I both know that the realiities of nullsec incursions means you can't run them as consistently as those in high sec.

Incursion balance between the various sec status's isn't even what I'm really getting at though. It's an overall balance. Incursions are actually pretty well balanced imho. Nullsec exploration is kind of broken in proportion to the risk involved imho, but it hardly even gets a glance form CCP. There's a lot of different thing that I feel are broken, and it would be a massive post to detail them all, far beyond the scope of this thread.

This thread is about incursions, and the balance in income between other PvE isk generating activities. I suggest you stop ignoring that fact, as you're looking increasingly out of touch with the ideas actually being discussed.
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#83 - 2011-12-10 20:51:16 UTC
Quote:

because"they" want people to group together maybe?


then come kick your lazy blue alliance ******* arse maybe?

candy off a baby.


Stop being such an obvious highsec noob/baddie/troll.

You do realize that FW takes place in low sec, correct? Not nullsec. Nullsec is broken. Luckily for you the income you achieve there blows in proportion to highsec, so you can continue to run incursions comfortable in the fact that you're making game breaking levels of isk with effectively zero risk.

You're making yourself look clueless. Stop for your own good.
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#84 - 2011-12-11 19:29:55 UTC
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
Quote:

because"they" want people to group together maybe?


then come kick your lazy blue alliance ******* arse maybe?

candy off a baby.


Stop being such an obvious highsec noob/baddie/troll.

You do realize that FW takes place in low sec, correct? Not nullsec. Nullsec is broken. Luckily for you the income you achieve there blows in proportion to highsec, so you can continue to run incursions comfortable in the fact that you're making game breaking levels of isk with effectively zero risk.

You're making yourself look clueless. Stop for your own good.


I embrace you my nullbear ranger brother...because I pity you...P

This is a game. You aren't special because you play this game or demean people or call them names.

You playing this game means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! Zip. zero, nada...Big smile

Oh and about that "risk" in EVE? There isn't any: No one really dies. Ship and skill point replacement, (should one neglect to update ones clone), are just matters of time. EVE is all about investments, (like suicide ganking), and has about as much risk overall as a decent mutual fund.

Making payouts commensurate with so-called "risk" in a game that overall guarantees payouts makes differentiation of risk meaningless.

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#85 - 2011-12-11 20:20:53 UTC
Quote:


I embrace you my nullbear ranger brother...because I pity you...P

This is a game. You aren't special because you play this game or demean people or call them names.

You playing this game means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! Zip. zero, nada...Big smile

Oh and about that "risk" in EVE? There isn't any: No one really dies. Ship and skill point replacement, (should one neglect to update ones clone), are just matters of time. EVE is all about investments, (like suicide ganking), and has about as much risk overall as a decent mutual fund.

Making payouts commensurate with so-called "risk" in a game that overall guarantees payouts makes differentiation of risk meaningless.


You're just trolling, but I'll waste my time with a quick reply anyways.

Time has value, so it's a fallacy to claim there's no risk when losses require more investment of your RL time. While your characters skillpoints may constantly advance, and assets typically do the same, the various min/maxers in this game are constantly working to get that little bit ahead. Eve tends to draw in competitive players. It's not that surprising people like some semblance of balance to foster their goals.
Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Hole Control
#86 - 2011-12-11 21:04:15 UTC
hi

i just made isk for 3-4 carriers in 2 days doing incursions in hi sec. i think it's cool.

as a bonus i got to loot some morsus mihi ****** wreck too.
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#87 - 2011-12-11 21:45:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Nullbeard Rager
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
Quote:


I embrace you my nullbear ranger brother...because I pity you...P

This is a game. You aren't special because you play this game or demean people or call them names.

You playing this game means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! Zip. zero, nada...Big smile

Oh and about that "risk" in EVE? There isn't any: No one really dies. Ship and skill point replacement, (should one neglect to update ones clone), are just matters of time. EVE is all about investments, (like suicide ganking), and has about as much risk overall as a decent mutual fund.

Making payouts commensurate with so-called "risk" in a game that overall guarantees payouts makes differentiation of risk meaningless.


You're just trolling, but I'll waste my time with a quick reply anyways.

Time has value, so it's a fallacy to claim there's no risk when losses require more investment of your RL time. While your characters skillpoints may constantly advance, and assets typically do the same, the various min/maxers in this game are constantly working to get that little bit ahead. Eve tends to draw in competitive players. It's not that surprising people like some semblance of balance to foster their goals.


Which changes nothing. Most of these conversations end up being about ISK/hour which is indeed about time. Living in 0.0 isn't supposed to be club med and yet lots of folks would like making ISK and harassing other players to be more comfortable and easier . It's still nullbear welfare. Can you imagine the street gang of your choice asking the governement for money "to improve conditions" in the neighborhoods they terrorize and to make law-abiding citizens easier to harass and steal from?

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
I Accidentally YourShip
Ronin ONE
Ronin Reloaded
#88 - 2011-12-11 22:45:46 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
ppl make isk mining with not-a-lot of risk but I don't see that as a major problem inflation-wise.


I can't believe no one corrected already. Mining is not the same as missioning, incursions, ratting, etc. Miners put material into the market which lowers prices of things, while the others put pure ISK into the market which increases the prices of things. So no, mining (and drone ratting, loot drops and reprocessing) is not a major problem inflation wise it's one of the forces pushing back against inflation from pure ISK faucet along with the ISK sinks that CCP also has in place.

Not that I agree with OP's QQ about incursions, but I just thought this should be said as it's a complete false premise.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#89 - 2011-12-12 02:37:18 UTC
Some of the anti-incursion folk would have enjoyed yesterdays little troll ... possibly one of them was responsible for it.

I was incursioning and suddenly everyone was talking about an incursion-nerf devblog. Very quickly it became clear that the source was a troll in BTL pub, and that there was no such devblog, but it did result in some hectic source checking and searching - a small diversion from the tedium of an apparently infinite risk-free isk-faucet :-)

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Citizen Smif
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2011-12-13 15:56:33 UTC
So wait, let me get this right.. You want incursions to be nerfed? So that people are forced to run solo missions in high-sec for a measely 40-60 mil an hour.. Instead of participating with other players in a MMO for higher income?

Missions are the most boring thing I've ever done.. I'd rather be poor than run something so dull, give up on missions buddy.. CCP realises they're **** and they're trying to draw people to actually play together rather than alone. Highsec PvE is working as intended and they've taken the right step by making missions compartively less profitable than they used to be.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#91 - 2011-12-13 16:17:17 UTC
Kurogauna wrote:
Quote:
ncursion running has risks and other costs.


Geez ! It's PVE = totaly predictible ! There is no risk when you can anticipate it.

Quote:
Are you saying that because you think incursion income possibilities are out of proportion with your view of incursion risks, they should be restricted to areas where you see the risk as being higher?


Yup. If not, the prices will sky rocket.

Quote:
Incursions are not likely to drag many ppl out of w-space.[b] The income is not that attractive.[/b]


That's i call trolling ! Big smile



I call your worthless post! http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3235


Yep alot of ships blowing up there in High Sec must be working as intented.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Dors Venabily
United Starbase Systems
#92 - 2011-12-13 18:49:21 UTC
That is a whole lot of pages of blah


Keep some sites in high sec keep the higher better ones low and null and it si done.
Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Hole Control
#93 - 2011-12-17 20:25:43 UTC
ohhai

i've put some research on this incursion matter by actually doing some myself

short conclusion:

- isk/h is NOT ridiculously impressive if there's some real competition which will get more popular in future for sure. Sure it's good money but I am a bit hesitant to say it's too good. It takes effort to put up fleet etc. actually I think the one who doesn't get enough rewards is the guy running the fleet i.e. doing all work gathering the fleet etc. There's no real bonus for doing all that extra work in game.
- Weird thing is that you can farm these incursions and NOT finish them like it would seem logical. there has to be better reward for finishing the incursion (aka doing the last thingy) and some way to force people to finish it eventually. Either incursion should just withdraw if no one finishes it or then sites should stop spawning at some point. This would limit endless farming of one incursion which seems pretty funny to me. Of course if there's enough evil minded ppl to run those HQ's fast to grief poor bears it would be awesome but it's a lot of effort, considering you'd just basically shut your own income too.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#94 - 2011-12-18 08:25:38 UTC
Kurogauna wrote:
Incursions should be in low/null sec !

Why ?

isks making without risk = inflation

high isks/hour in empire = less pve'ers in low/null/wh

Like Lvl5 missions, the incursions should be moved in a more dangerous place.

That's all.



So ah ya (Echo Echo Echo) how's them level 5's doing ya there in low sec budy?

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#95 - 2011-12-18 08:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Kurogauna wrote:
Quote:
Have any numbers to prove this?


Of course not. I would love having them. Anyway, in Eve, inflation occurs when Isks pump is far supperior to isk sink. Incursion is a BIG isk pump, runned by far too many people without leading to isk sink.



News flash!

CCP has added in a huge isk sink into PI today with the release of the Crucible expantion in the form of Export/Import taxs.

How ever don't look to this isk sink to help keep your cost of Tech 2 or anything alse that req. PI or a POS running down. This isk sink cost will be pasted right along to the consumer.

In other unrelated storys today Kurogauna ran all the low sec level 5 missioners off for the time being and realy needs some soft targets to shot at and back to you Bob?

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#96 - 2011-12-18 08:49:41 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
No. Moon goo and Sanctums should be moved to highsec.



I agree 100%. Do Moon goo like PI and Sanctums pay scaling like Incursions and it's win win win for everyone.Bear

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#97 - 2011-12-18 09:10:47 UTC
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
Quote:

because"they" want people to group together maybe?


then come kick your lazy blue alliance ******* arse maybe?

candy off a baby.


Stop being such an obvious highsec noob/baddie/troll.

You do realize that FW takes place in low sec, correct? Not nullsec. Nullsec is broken. Luckily for you the income you achieve there blows in proportion to highsec, so you can continue to run incursions comfortable in the fact that you're making game breaking levels of isk with effectively zero risk.

You're making yourself look clueless. Stop for your own good.



Why is it game braking you have Incursions in low sec right?

They pay more then Incursions in high sec right?

Low sec fleets are normaly better at that group/PvP/fleet targeted stuff right?

So why are you so but hurt?

Are you part of one of thoughs low sec pirate gank gangs that can only kill PvE fitted ships?

You do realize that FW takes place anywere you mite run into the other Faction right including but not limited to High sec as well right?

You sir are making yourself look clueless. Stop for your own good!

Also real Low Sec PvPers can continue to run low sec Incursions comfortable in the fact there not only making more isk/h then high sec Incursion runners but there also the gate keepers of Pirate SC print.

Plz point on the dolly were the bad man touched you!

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Marcus McTavish
Volcel Police
#98 - 2011-12-18 17:50:21 UTC
Rip Minner wrote:
Kurogauna wrote:
Quote:
Have any numbers to prove this?


Of course not. I would love having them. Anyway, in Eve, inflation occurs when Isks pump is far supperior to isk sink. Incursion is a BIG isk pump, runned by far too many people without leading to isk sink.



News flash!

CCP has added in a huge isk sink into PI today with the release of the Crucible expantion in the form of Export/Import taxs.

How ever don't look to this isk sink to help keep your cost of Tech 2 or anything alse that req. PI or a POS running down. This isk sink cost will be pasted right along to the consumer.

In other unrelated storys today Kurogauna ran all the low sec level 5 missioners off for the time being and realy needs some soft targets to shot at and back to you Bob?


Dear God, did your father take the rope knot out of your mouth?

Its not a "huge" isk sink.
And btw most incursion bears dont do industry.

The fact of the matter is. The more risk involved, the more potential payout.
Incursions break this rule.
Not only should they be worth much less in highsec, and a little less in lowsec, but farming an incursion should produce diminishing returns.
Farming them is the actual isk pump, if CCP encouraged ppl to finish the inucursions, then the logistics might justify the reward

The PI tax change, POCOs and fuel blocks hurt corps and alliances that.... you know.... dont always live in highsec. AKA Lowsec, Nullsec and wormholes. You can do research at a station too.

On the note of level 5's they have a lot of risk involved for a variable income rate. Blitzing one level 5 in a nighthawk and carrier nets 90k LP, however, i can be hotdroped by supers at any moment, or ganked, or killed, and podded.

As a final note, someone must have just ran over your dog and killed your family for you to have the level of anger, hatred, madness and rage-fogged sight and thought to post as you have.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#99 - 2011-12-20 07:30:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Marcus McTavish wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Kurogauna wrote:
Quote:
Have any numbers to prove this?


Of course not. I would love having them. Anyway, in Eve, inflation occurs when Isks pump is far supperior to isk sink. Incursion is a BIG isk pump, runned by far too many people without leading to isk sink.



News flash!

CCP has added in a huge isk sink into PI today with the release of the Crucible expantion in the form of Export/Import taxs.

How ever don't look to this isk sink to help keep your cost of Tech 2 or anything alse that req. PI or a POS running down. This isk sink cost will be pasted right along to the consumer.

In other unrelated storys today Kurogauna ran all the low sec level 5 missioners off for the time being and realy needs some soft targets to shot at and back to you Bob?


Dear God, did your father take the rope knot out of your mouth?

Its not a "huge" isk sink.
And btw most incursion bears dont do industry.

The fact of the matter is. The more risk involved, the more potential payout.
Incursions break this rule.
Not only should they be worth much less in highsec, and a little less in lowsec, but farming an incursion should produce diminishing returns.
Farming them is the actual isk pump, if CCP encouraged ppl to finish the inucursions, then the logistics might justify the reward

The PI tax change, POCOs and fuel blocks hurt corps and alliances that.... you know.... dont always live in highsec. AKA Lowsec, Nullsec and wormholes. You can do research at a station too.

On the note of level 5's they have a lot of risk involved for a variable income rate. Blitzing one level 5 in a nighthawk and carrier nets 90k LP, however, i can be hotdroped by supers at any moment, or ganked, or killed, and podded.

As a final note, someone must have just ran over your dog and killed your family for you to have the level of anger, hatred, madness and rage-fogged sight and thought to post as you have.


Any one that do's High sec PI can see you don't. Or your just a PI miner. The PI tax is a fairly good sized one. It had to be to cover the cost of player owned POCO's.

High Sec Incursions do not break the risk/payout rule. Both Low Sec and Null Sec pay better. But they did put the Faction SC BP in low sec. I dont know why but they did. I think it should be in Null Sec for the guys that should be using it. But that's just me.

Farming is done on every NPC in the game no reason Incursions should not be the same way other then a few people thinking they should not.

I have a few POS's myself too. I can promise you your Tech 2 everything is going to raise. Back stock as to be worked though at all levels first but they will raise. PI hit everyone and not just Low sec/Null sec/WH. Taxs always get passed onto the consumer.

I use to run level 5's in High sec. I like to think if I had to pick ether level 5's or Incursions I would pick Incursions every time. How ever it's always a shame and a wast for Dev's to put in NPC content and have it so at odds between the NPC enviroment and the World enviroment. As this kinds of NPC content are omost always used by only a very small % of the player base and most others avoid it. Making it poorly used NPC content all the way around.

If you want to know why Incursions are never going to leave high sec follow this instructions.

1.) Log into game.
2.) Hit F10
3.) Select the Stars tab on your World Map Control Panel
4.) Open the Statistics folder
5.) Select the Average Pilots in Space in the Last 30 Minutes

You can do this anytime of day or night but you will always see the same thing day after day week after week month after month and year after year. Most of the player are in High sec.

But thats only Pilots in Space in the Last 30 Minutes.

So the other option is that there are more low sec null sec pilots but they live there lives Docked up?

As for nerfing the Incursion payouts they will only do that when they want all thoughs people to ether quit or go back to level 4's. So probly not anytime soon.

As a final note here you did not just fall out the Capt. Oblivious tree and hit a few branchs on the way down you got gang banged by the hole f*cking forest.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWfs1QqKfZU

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Marcus McTavish
Volcel Police
#100 - 2012-01-01 16:58:00 UTC
Rip Minner wrote:
Marcus McTavish wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Kurogauna wrote:
Quote:
Have any numbers to prove this?


Of course not. I would love having them. Anyway, in Eve, inflation occurs when Isks pump is far supperior to isk sink. Incursion is a BIG isk pump, runned by far too many people without leading to isk sink.



News flash!

CCP has added in a huge isk sink into PI today with the release of the Crucible expantion in the form of Export/Import taxs.

How ever don't look to this isk sink to help keep your cost of Tech 2 or anything alse that req. PI or a POS running down. This isk sink cost will be pasted right along to the consumer.

In other unrelated storys today Kurogauna ran all the low sec level 5 missioners off for the time being and realy needs some soft targets to shot at and back to you Bob?


Dear God, did your father take the rope knot out of your mouth?

Its not a "huge" isk sink.
And btw most incursion bears dont do industry.

The fact of the matter is. The more risk involved, the more potential payout.
Incursions break this rule.
Not only should they be worth much less in highsec, and a little less in lowsec, but farming an incursion should produce diminishing returns.
Farming them is the actual isk pump, if CCP encouraged ppl to finish the inucursions, then the logistics might justify the reward

The PI tax change, POCOs and fuel blocks hurt corps and alliances that.... you know.... dont always live in highsec. AKA Lowsec, Nullsec and wormholes. You can do research at a station too.

On the note of level 5's they have a lot of risk involved for a variable income rate. Blitzing one level 5 in a nighthawk and carrier nets 90k LP, however, i can be hotdroped by supers at any moment, or ganked, or killed, and podded.

As a final note, someone must have just ran over your dog and killed your family for you to have the level of anger, hatred, madness and rage-fogged sight and thought to post as you have.


Any one that do's High sec PI can see you don't. Or your just a PI miner. The PI tax is a fairly good sized one. It had to be to cover the cost of player owned POCO's.

High Sec Incursions do not break the risk/payout rule. Both Low Sec and Null Sec pay better. But they did put the Faction SC BP in low sec. I dont know why but they did. I think it should be in Null Sec for the guys that should be using it. But that's just me.

Farming is done on every NPC in the game no reason Incursions should not be the same way other then a few people thinking they should not.

I have a few POS's myself too. I can promise you your Tech 2 everything is going to raise. Back stock as to be worked though at all levels first but they will raise. PI hit everyone and not just Low sec/Null sec/WH. Taxs always get passed onto the consumer.

I use to run level 5's in High sec. I like to think if I had to pick ether level 5's or Incursions I would pick Incursions every time. How ever it's always a shame and a wast for Dev's to put in NPC content and have it so at odds between the NPC enviroment and the World enviroment. As this kinds of NPC content are omost always used by only a very small % of the player base and most others avoid it. Making it poorly used NPC content all the way around.

If you want to know why Incursions are never going to leave high sec follow this instructions.

1.) Log into game.
2.) Hit F10
3.) Select the Stars tab on your World Map Control Panel
4.) Open the Statistics folder
5.) Select the Average Pilots in Space in the Last 30 Minutes

You can do this anytime of day or night but you will always see the same thing day after day week after week month after month and year after year. Most of the player are in High sec.

But thats only Pilots in Space in the Last 30 Minutes.

So the other option is that there are more low sec null sec pilots but they live there lives Docked up?

As for nerfing the Incursion payouts they will only do that when they want all thoughs people to ether quit or go back to level 4's. So probly not anytime soon.

As a final note here you did not just fall out the Capt. Oblivious tree and hit a few branchs on the way down you got gang banged by the hole f*cking forest.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWfs1QqKfZU


Was your lobotomy performed by a real doctor?

Of course PI prices are rising, CCP made it a sink to take some of the isk that is being pumped in by incursions.
Incursions are not the only reason, but they are a major one.

I own towers too.
I do level 5 missions, in lowsec, and its bs that even useing a fleet, we earn less than a incursion bear in highsec.

Incursions provide a almost non-stop supply of high end sites to do, all in the same systems.
You dont need to refit, move around too much, or hope for a good one like level 4 missions.

CCP, and the players have stated that Nullsec is dead. So if incursions paid out much more then it would be good.

My overall point is a comparison. Highsec exploration yields little isk, and only a few noteworthy mods.
But lowsec, and nullsec offer a much higher payout and loot.

So why are incursions only marginally better in nullsec and lowsec. By god if you say the revenant bpc you should shut up and go to nullsec first. Its a freaking mess, alliances dont deploy supers like you think they do. + with it being a special ship it would be primaried immediately.

EVE needs to either teach or purge the player base of those who think they are entitled to anything they want. This is not the sims. If you get ganked, though ****, the ganker is playing the game how they see fit and should suffer no extraordinary reprocutions no matter how mad you are.

You vital income source which can be botted easily is threatened by logic and standard eve trends. Time to get on the big boy pants and grow up.