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stripminers should do damage. Period.
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#21 - 2014-10-18 03:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Deveron
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
]

But I think youre ignoring the 'Law of Highsec in Regards to Visual Assessment Of Neighboring Grass's Chromacity' where the proposed idea needs upward adjustment regardless of current meta or implementation. Case in point, Op requests "Some damage", Someone proposes "damage equivalent to small lasers", and then someone else (hint hint) proposes "medium laser" levels and a "siege" module.
Ron Burgundy wrote:
Well. That escalated quickly!

And we haven't even gotten to page 2 yet! So you can see how quickly this will go out of control as an idea.



Yep your right....i was just having fun and have thought about it....we should just trash the idea.
However a friend in TS said who wait a minute if strips can damg ships then ship guns need to be able to blow rocks into unuseable space dust right in front of the miners very eyes.

I lolled at that one as i next had to prove you can currently shoot them with no ill effects(the rocks)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#22 - 2014-10-18 03:11:19 UTC
would be the only weapon which does not require a turret slot. which is kinda problematic unless its changed. Do you really want to give it tracking and falloff etc?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Lugh Crow-Slave
#23 - 2014-10-18 03:25:30 UTC
Erqui Thiesant wrote:
Miners (and strip miners) don't do damage. They're pretty much tractor beams for asteroids.


well the melt and break up the rock before pulling it in so they have to be doing at least some.


I'm neither for or against this as it won't affect me much but i would love to see the kill mail when a gang of covs hot drop using a titan and kill a carrier Big smile

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-10-18 03:40:30 UTC
Support, simply because I think aggressive actions taken against inanimate objects in High-Sec still generate a CONCORD response. The resulting hilarity on the day after this change is made would be worth it.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#25 - 2014-10-18 03:49:47 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
I fully support this idea.

I mean, strip miners should not being doing the damage of a dedicated combat laser, but they should do SOME damage at the very least. Something like a frigate sized laser or something. And tracking should be taken into account too.


I would actually consider mining if I could wreck an asteroid for a higher yield.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Scion Lex
Horizon Logistics
#26 - 2014-10-18 03:50:38 UTC
stop blowing it out of proportion. As I stated before I think it should do 'some' damage. Tracking would have to be added, duh. Like that tracking needs to be on par with auto cannons or somethingRoll It doesn't and it wouldn't.

This whole idea is out in left field to some degree....but thats only if it is taken there.....which it usually is. When I said that CCP may not want them balanced I was referencing its combat status, not its functional performance as what it is. This is a survivability issue. If you cannot apply damage in a meaningful way in addition to tanking then you can not 'win' a fight. You can evade and that's it.

Ultimately, I disagree with the idea that barges should only have the option of running and hiding. Giving them the ability to use their main asset as a weapon is a possible solution based on some justifiable logic; strip miners do 'something' to rocks so why can't they do 'something' to other ships and, thus, address the defense issue.

I will let this carry on into the usual depths. You folks enjoy.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#27 - 2014-10-18 07:21:15 UTC
Erqui Thiesant wrote:
Miners (and strip miners) don't do damage. They're pretty much tractor beams for asteroids.


What she said.

Poop, she beat me to it. Cry

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#28 - 2014-10-18 07:51:56 UTC
I'm OK with it, as long as we can blow roids up with guns. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-10-18 12:46:07 UTC
Barges can already use drones. Why not just go simple. No damage from the strip miners. Just increase the drone damage slightly. Basic drones can handle a frig rat and can push away a frig pilot. Just give them a bit of a boost so they can handle slightly larger ships.

Other than the Skiff, it's not like they have the tank to hang in a fight anyway.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#30 - 2014-10-18 12:52:36 UTC
What about a special cristal for T2 strip miners that would turn the harmless laser into an incredible beam of destruction... for a strip miner at least. With actually very low damages.

Procurers and skiffs would get a role bonus for that type of cristal that increases damages by something like 500%.

In terms of actual numbers it could do, with a skiff, something like 50-75dps. That wouldn't be OP and it would be fun.

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Rosita Renegade
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-10-18 12:57:15 UTC
in minecraft i can kill a pig with a wooden shovel.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-10-18 13:33:28 UTC
+1 purely for the embaressment factor of a would be ganker being mined to death...
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#33 - 2014-10-18 13:53:13 UTC
It should do no damage, but rip modules out of the ship and put it into ones cargo ... ... ... What? I need some new capital modules.
Lucrii Dei
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-10-18 13:55:53 UTC
Strip miners already do damage, in the form of drones.

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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#35 - 2014-10-18 15:40:58 UTC
I say +1 simply because it would add another wrinkle to the game and most of the time those are good things.

They are just beams of light how can they do damage. Following this logic lasers are just beams of light how and why do they do damage. Back at the dawn of my EVE experience I read a blog post and it stated that strip miners work by vaporizing the asteroid and then essentially tractoring the vapor back and reassembling it back into ore. If the strip miner can vaporize rock that is an extreme amount of energy most likely applied as heat so I think thermal would be the best choice as a damage type.

Strip miners do have the ability to track. You can put a MWD on a barge and orbit a roid and the strip will still work so that would give us a starting point to determine tracking speed.

The aggression thing with Concord is a bit tougher. If strips are turned to weapons and their use on roids does not trigger a concord response then that would have to be balanced. Allowing roids to be blown up is an idea to consider but I think a more appropriate idea would be to add some limited mining ability to some of the current lasers.
Z1gy
Vindicator Corporation
#36 - 2014-10-18 15:47:28 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Scion Lex wrote:
There is also the idea that CCP doesn't want barges balanced.


Don't know how you got that idea.. seeing as that they got a really nice balance pass.. then a touch up pass recently.. but then again when it comes to miners, too much is never enough.

So yeah, I cant see this idea growing out of control rather quickly. First its "make mah mining lazors do the damages!" then its "make mah lazors do MOAR damages!!!" then its "make mah lazors do Tornado alpha damage!" then itll be "Make mah lazors do XL Blaster damages, and give them teh Bastion module!!!" So within 6 months, we will have 400k ehp barges with 2500dps (50k damage under specialized ORE bastion siege module) with 200 more threads now wanting a buff to their drone bonuses too.



i think you are talking about the mythical Tech 3 mining ship and the best of all they also can covert portal a fleet of prospect
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#37 - 2014-10-18 15:55:07 UTC
Erqui Thiesant wrote:
Miners (and strip miners) don't do damage. They're pretty much tractor beams for asteroids.



ehm, eve chronicles:
" The laser beam fulfills three essential tasks: extraction, transport and classfication of minerals. First of all it vaporizes the minerals on the surface of the asteroids where they form a charged plasma gas."

so id say thermal damage is quite serious thing in the process

i dont mine myself but id be happy if mining lasers did some dmg, cause "eve is real" (at least they kept saying that for some time - not sure now as x-times bigger titans will use tiny gates now (magic probably))
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-10-18 16:01:15 UTC
Scion Lex wrote:
Yes...this has been brought up before and generally laughed off. I tend to disagree. The reasoning is simple; if it can consume the rock that everything is made from then it should be capable of damaging the final product in some fashion as well. I also think this should ONLY apply to stripminers. Not ice harvesters or anything eles.

Next people will bring in absurd notions of being required to over heat, something about area effect gasclounds. Then we will move on to tractoring asteroids into miners and salvagers doing damage to minmatar ships. All utterly, nonesense

What is nonesense is that any one with a few million isk to burn can suicide gank a barge and it can't shoot back in any fashion besides drones. If you are watching local and dscanning then you should have to option of unlocking the rock and standing your ground with more than the skiff as an option. This is well short of the notion of moving into questionable territory without a cordon or armed escort. Maybe this needs to be another class of barges, I don't care how its done. I've blown up alot of barges. I would be happy knowing that I would have to land on them in a battlecruiser instead of a imperial navy slicer. I like surprises.Pirate


Your arguments are bad. You want to maximize your mining? You sacrifice self defense. You want to mine while defending yourself? Get a skiff. Have you seen those things when they have drone damage mods in the lows? They are nasty.

CCP already MASSIVELY buffed mining barges, but they rebalanced them so that you get to make a choice. What you are asking for is CCP to make that choice redundant. CCP has already given you the tools to defend yourself from us suicide gankers, the choice to ignore those tools is yours.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Iain Cariaba
#39 - 2014-10-18 16:08:35 UTC
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha*inhale*hahahahahahahaha...

Oh wait, OP was serious?!?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*falls out of chair*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*finally can stop laughing, and returns to keyboard*

As I said last time the idea came up of making mining barges into combat ships:

No, you do not get this on this.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#40 - 2014-10-18 20:47:33 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Scion Lex wrote:
There is also the idea that CCP doesn't want barges balanced.


Don't know how you got that idea.. seeing as that they got a really nice balance pass.. then a touch up pass recently.. but then again when it comes to miners, too much is never enough.

So yeah, I cant see this idea growing out of control rather quickly. First its "make mah mining lazors do the damages!" then its "make mah lazors do MOAR damages!!!" then its "make mah lazors do Tornado alpha damage!" then itll be "Make mah lazors do XL Blaster damages, and give them teh Bastion module!!!" So within 6 months, we will have 400k ehp barges with 2500dps (50k damage under specialized ORE bastion siege module) with 200 more threads now wanting a buff to their drone bonuses too.


Slippery slope fallacy. Regularly perpetrated by liberals.

Wrong.

These modules doing damage to anything that comes into their path makes perfect sense.
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