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'Fluff' question
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Pythagoras Magna-Grecia
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-10-18 01:52:18 UTC
Greetings. Allow me to put forth the following thought (and please forgive and redirect me as necessary if this has already been asked):

It would appear we play in a world which adheres only selectively to the simulation of physical laws. Whereas we can fly about stars and planets formed by descriptions of Newton's laws of motion, there seems to be a contradiction involving the usage of afterburners and microwarpdrives.

Provided that humans have existed in the Eve universe according to CCP , it can be assumed that Newton's laws probably 'exist'. Recall that Newton's 1st law of motion states:

A body acted on by no net force moves with a constant velocity (which may be 0) and zero acceleration.

With Newton's 1st law in mind, the issue of the MWD's and afterburners becomes clear: after engaging an afterburner/MWD and cutting power to that module, a ship should continue to keep moving in a straight line, in a constant velocity, with zero acceleration, until acted on by an external net force. Unless a ship is braking in-game, this doesn't appear to happen.

Has there ever been a 'fluff' explanation for this? I'm curious as to how it's been explained away, if that's the case.

Thank you very much for your time. Enjoy your weekend.




Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2014-10-18 01:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
It's called lore, not fluff. Maybe thats why you can't find it.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#3 - 2014-10-18 01:54:44 UTC
You actually "fly" in a submarine masquerading as a spaceship as far as physics are concerned.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
stoicfaux
#4 - 2014-10-18 02:04:30 UTC
Our ships harness black holes (hypermasses for the easily offended) in order to bend space in order to move. So, let's be honest and admit that Newton was a hack who couldn't understand black holes with two hands and a flashlight.

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Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#5 - 2014-10-18 02:11:55 UTC
I can't find the specific lore article on it right now, but yes, there's a reason in lore: Warp Cores, the thing that powers the engines that allow you to warp at superluminal speeds, create "drag" on the subspace around them, causing your ship to slow down, even in space.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Category:Lore

Beyond that? It's for gameplay reasons. Gameplay > Realism. Always.

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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#6 - 2014-10-18 02:17:08 UTC
If you stop assuming that Eve is based on real physics in a real universe, and instead assume that Eve is based in a fluid universe with magic, you will find that it all makes sense.





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Sebastor Cane
The Outlet
#7 - 2014-10-18 02:31:21 UTC
This part of the universe is full of water. Everyone knows that.


Notice that we also only fight on one plain and that for this part of the universe there is an "up" and a "down"
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-10-18 02:56:36 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
If you stop assuming that Eve is based on real physics in a real universe, and instead assume that Eve is based in a fluid universe with magic, you will find that it all makes sense.



True
Erqui Thiesant
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-10-18 02:59:25 UTC
If you want an answer to that, you also need to figure out the rest of eve physics. Like cap transfers.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-10-18 03:14:16 UTC
Erqui Thiesant wrote:
If you want an answer to that, you also need to figure out the rest of eve physics. Like cap transfers.


Cap transfers would be easy to explain.

Directed high energy RF transmissions. With enough power even a very small efficiency it will result in a large energy transfer.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-10-18 03:21:31 UTC
Shiptoasting in stealth nerf freighter-bumping-in-machariel thread.

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Valkin Mordirc
#12 - 2014-10-18 04:02:38 UTC
The lore answer to your question is that the all the ships of New Eden have Warpdrives, These warp drives are 'always on' so even if you are not in warp, your warpdrive is happily humming away.

Now the Warpdrive itself. cause 'drag' on the ship. Which explains why ships have 'max velocity' turn like fighter jets and slow down without the need of a forwarded mounted vectored thruster. IE like Space Engineers.


If a ship didn't have the warpdrive, it would behave like anything else would in space. It would continue to accelerate as long as it's engines had power right up to the cosmic speed limit, the speed of light.



Hope that helps answer your question.
#DeleteTheWeak
Trey Kutoi
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2014-10-18 05:33:16 UTC
Sebastor Cane wrote:
This part of the universe is full of water. Everyone knows that.


Notice that we also only fight on one plain and that for this part of the universe there is an "up" and a "down"


I can't seem to find the post where someone did the calculation, but I often hear that some poor soul did them, and found that the real life material that most closely models the friction/viscosity of space in EVE is WD-40
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#14 - 2014-10-18 07:18:10 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
The lore answer to your question is that the all the ships of New Eden have Warpdrives, These warp drives are 'always on' so even if you are not in warp, your warpdrive is happily humming away.

Now the Warpdrive itself. cause 'drag' on the ship. Which explains why ships have 'max velocity' turn like fighter jets and slow down without the need of a forwarded mounted vectored thruster. IE like Space Engineers.


If a ship didn't have the warpdrive, it would behave like anything else would in space. It would continue to accelerate as long as it's engines had power right up to the cosmic speed limit, the speed of light.



Hope that helps answer your question.


This is indeed the lore-explanation of it all. Also, you can't turn off your warpdrive fully, because doing so would lead to disastrous results.

OP comment about 'planets & such following newton laws' did make me laugh tho. This is EvE, where some stars have a volume of 1 M3 and yet still shine brightly! It's also the universe where solid! rock planets exist with the density of foam, or the size of jupiter.
There's even moons that achieve speeds that are fractions of lightspeed (think someone found a moon speeding around it's planet at 1/3rd the speed of light!)

So I'm afraid if Newton or any other physicist had a look at the workings of EVE physics, he'd get a stroke!

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Solecist Project
#15 - 2014-10-18 07:29:06 UTC
Not quite right.
The amount of energy needed to accelerate increases,
the faster the ship goes.

Constant acceleration is only maintainable if the amount of energy
that is being put in increases, the closer the ship gets towards the speed of light.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Vyl Vit
#16 - 2014-10-18 07:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
Pythagoras Magna-Grecia wrote:
Whereas we can fly about stars and planets....
Yeah, I too am going to have to nail you for this one. The reason being - if you present your point in the fashion you did (quoting Newtonian Law and such like, applying your brand of abstract reasoning and smarts) then what you say is going to be held to a higher standard, as most of us may seem like we're nothing but smarta$$es, some of us are actually pretty smart.

SO, I'll say it. "Flying" is in an atmosphere. There is no atmosphere in space, and now we're caught up.

A lot of this game is pretend. Pretend you're in a spaceship galavanting about the galaxy. Pretend, therefore, your ship has a nice set of retros and uses those to force your stop. You can do it. I actually pretend my guy, Vyl Vit here, lives in a station with a sofa. (IT COULD HAPPEN!)

Like you said; enjoy the weekend. Enjoy the game. Suspend disbelief and have fun with it.
We're playing, not trying to land on Mars.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#17 - 2014-10-18 08:09:06 UTC
OP, you would consider yourself a fluffer due this post?

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Pythagoras Magna-Grecia
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-10-18 13:53:05 UTC
Nope, just merely curious. I had a feeling a deluge of comments involving "you dumbass, it's a game, get over it" would surface, but thankfully, a few managed to dig up the 'drag' explanation which is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.
Velarra
#19 - 2014-10-18 18:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Velarra
To be really fair: the reasoning for the oddness of Eve's physics in contrast with what we might expect are quite probably due to artifacts of early mmo development involving randomized corner cutting in an effort to create the illusion of a huge vibrant star cluster, server load considerations, and finally game-play balancing.
---

Yet if you want to immerse yourself in New Eden, rationalize it to some degree I offer the suggestion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_constant

^^^ Perhaps New Eden has a different set of these, resulting from mankind's use of the Eve Gate 'worm hole' which took them to another time-place with differing constants.