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Dev blog: All That Is Gold Does Not Glitter - Data Sites, Expeditions

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CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#221 - 2014-10-17 16:37:36 UTC
Another tiny update:

The volume of all Datacores has also been lowered from 1.0m3 to 0.1m3.

Team Genesis
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#222 - 2014-10-17 16:46:00 UTC
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
Oh, I do most of these things. So that isn't a valid argument why these sites shouldn't contain any form of rats.

Actually, it kind of is; the gameplay style you want is already catered to and happily exists side-by-side with another gameplay style that you want to homogenize with your preferred choice.
Sam Spock
The Arnold Connection
#223 - 2014-10-17 17:05:56 UTC
What might work is if they added a rare trigger that spawns a commander frigate rat with a pop up that says some thing like "This Dread Guristas (fill in the type here) seems to be lost. Be wary"

Everyone in a Buzzard would be saying "dernit! no drones!"

Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#224 - 2014-10-17 17:07:08 UTC
YES!!!

Thank you dear!!!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Lakshata Chawla
State War Academy
Caldari State
#225 - 2014-10-17 17:51:12 UTC
So the m3 reduction is a very good step, hopefully the decryptors dont get massively devalued if its switched to generic.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#226 - 2014-10-17 18:27:08 UTC
Did I hear "Escalations to Wormholes"? If your site gets escalated to a wormhole, you first warp to a location in a system given from the previous data site, and it leads to a wormhole.

More potential interaction between the different areas of the game is better.

Rammix
TheMurk
#227 - 2014-10-17 19:45:58 UTC
ALI Virgo wrote:

What if bombers can keep cloaking as is but they have to lock a target before launching a bomb.


Terrible idea. It means a huuuuge nerf.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Rammix
TheMurk
#228 - 2014-10-17 19:50:23 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Did I hear "Escalations to Wormholes"? If your site gets escalated to a wormhole, you first warp to a location in a system given from the previous data site, and it leads to a wormhole.

More potential interaction between the different areas of the game is better.


Interesting. I would press "like" several times if I could.
Also such expeditions could lead to sites containing 1or2 pockets with sleepers in addition to normal pockets.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#229 - 2014-10-17 21:14:41 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Another tiny update:

The volume of all Datacores has also been lowered from 1.0m3 to 0.1m3.

Friday night, cold beer, good news, perfect start of the weekendBig smile

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Circumstantial Evidence
#230 - 2014-10-17 21:22:03 UTC
Player pirates are the "rats" in data/relic sites. Its if / when you zone out too much on the hack puzzle, that they get you.
Schluffi Schluffelsen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#231 - 2014-10-17 22:35:40 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
Oh, I do most of these things. So that isn't a valid argument why these sites shouldn't contain any form of rats.

Actually, it kind of is; the gameplay style you want is already catered to and happily exists side-by-side with another gameplay style that you want to homogenize with your preferred choice.


Isn't the whole point of posting here about preferred choices and personal opinions on the topic? Rats have been within these sites for ages and it was a decent profession that needed some training, skills and scaled in difficulty quite a lot. Now it's been streamlined into no-risk minigame adventure with no actual interaction with other players, you run through unused nullsec / lowsec in your cheap throwaway fit T2 scanning frig, cloak up when anybody enters or hunts you - with fittings designed to gtfo. But that's about it. Then it's only the hacking game and either you get how it works - or you don't.

Scanning itself has become way too easy for my personal taste but I do love the usability changes that have been done. It's now good enough for people to check it out, see if they like the profession itself and whether they should invest skillpoints into this. The old system with running a salvager on a can hasn't been much better ( - I do like the idea of interaction like a minigame - ), but you did have to put something on the line for the rewards you reap - you couldn't just cloak up, at least not as easy as it is nowadays. I think the reintroduction of rats, no matter in what kind of way, would add to the gameplay experience and offer a scale of difficulty which is inherent to all professions in Eve, mining, missions, ratting, invention, etc.

I do get why the people who run them now would not want to change that because it would mean they would have to change their pattern and adapt, but hey that's life and eve.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#232 - 2014-10-17 23:38:50 UTC
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
Now it's been streamlined into no-risk minigame adventure with no actual interaction with other players, you run through unused nullsec / lowsec in your cheap throwaway fit T2 scanning frig, cloak up when anybody enters or hunts you - with fittings designed to gtfo. But that's about it. Then it's only the hacking game and either you get how it works - or you don't.

I agree with you that scanning is too easy now but you have no idea when you talking about risk. Unused/safe low? Do you really think stabbed covop is safe in low? Low is full explorers wrecks. Week ago i saw a Astero loss, cargo expanders in low, 200mil total loot droped. Again it's not explorers fault that null is empty. As Circumstantial Evidence wrote players are rats.
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
I do get why the people who run them now would not want to change that because it would mean they would have to change their pattern and adapt, but hey that's life and eve.

Changing this pattern would mean rigs/invention will cost more, it's not that simple, everything is tied in new eden. Just because rats was there for ages doesn't mean it was good. We have now stable non combat explorer profession, vulnerable to other players because most of them are using defensless frigates. I would like to see new kind of sites instead, group, hybrid, like Mara Rinn described. Maybe those super secret anomalies called "ghost sites" will become like in rubicon trailer.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#233 - 2014-10-18 00:44:51 UTC
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
Isn't the whole point of posting here about preferred choices and personal opinions on the topic?

But your preferred choice already exists. If you want it expanded upon, that's fine. But you need an actual reason to get rid of another person's playstyle.
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
Rats have been within these sites for ages and it was a decent profession that needed some training, skills and scaled in difficulty quite a lot. Now it's been streamlined into no-risk minigame adventure with no actual interaction with other players, you run through unused nullsec / lowsec in your cheap throwaway fit T2 scanning frig, cloak up when anybody enters or hunts you - with fittings designed to gtfo. But that's about it. Then it's only the hacking game and either you get how it works - or you don't.

Before Apocryphya hit, it was very much the same way: no interaction, cloak up when some gets or hunts you, fittings designed to gtfo. And that was with rats. I know, because my primary means of making ISK was running radar sites in Catch and lowsec Metropolis. Well, in Metropolis I used a cheap throw-away T1 cruiser and a Recon in Catch, but still the same thing applied.

Honestly, I've had far more hostile encounters inside sites now than I had back then.

And if people are warping out of sites because they're being scanned down, that is "actual interaction."
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#234 - 2014-10-18 07:33:14 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Damjan Fox wrote:
Quote:
Looking at boss loot tables today

Could you explain, what you mean with "boss"?
The escalation part 4 final overseer/faction spawn, overseer/faction spawn during an escalation or faction spawn in DED/unrated sites in general?




High-Security Containment Facility [Metadrones - LMH-M-2 - B]
Research and Development Laboratories [Metadrones - LMH-M-2 - F]
High-Security Containment Facility [Metadrones - LMH-M-2 - N]
The Antimatter Channeler
Angel Fleet Outpost
Shadow Coreli Antagonist
.
.
.


Seems that what is considered boss and what is considered a generic overseer seems quite random, as far as high sec goes, 3/10 and 4/10 are here, not watch and vigil, and no scratched cask to be seen (rogue 3/10).

Looking forward to see many of those skipped...
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#235 - 2014-10-18 11:07:19 UTC
Lakshata Chawla wrote:
So the m3 reduction is a very good step, hopefully the decryptors dont get massively devalued if its switched to generic.


Even if that happens, my industry alt will just go on a massive stockpiling spree until the prices stabilize. Then I can invent for literally months or years without my little one-man operation running dry.

Of course if it doesn't happen, I'll have fun with my exploration-main instead. Big smile
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#236 - 2014-10-18 14:43:15 UTC
Quote:
Seems that what is considered boss and what is considered a generic overseer seems quite random, as far as high sec goes, 3/10 and 4/10 are here, not watch and vigil,


The NPCs in Watches or Vigils (or any other unrated site) i would not consider "bosses", but generic faction spawns. They neither drop OPE nor deadspace modules.

I just wonder why the list is inconsistent about the DED overseers. For example: We have the "Radiating Telescope" (Gurista 4/10), "Inner Sanctum" (Blood 4/10), "Phi-Operation Protector" (Serpentis 4/10) on the list, but not the "Domination Excavator" (Angel 4/10) or the "True Sansha Foreman" (Sansha 4/10).

But anyways, let's wait and see what they come up with....

Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
PIRJANIN
Space Knights Templar
Jita Holding Inc.
#237 - 2014-10-18 15:35:05 UTC
Besieged sites - are generally great, would like too see more of those. Would be great if they would drop more staff, now it takes 8 minutes for perfect vindicator/rattlesnake to complete one site, considering the risks and medium drop of around 20-25mil.... u still would earn more farming anomalies in null sec on the same vindicator/rattlesnake, thats sad.

Rare combat relic sites (scanned as combat) and concord sites in null and lowsec - these are useless, nothing really to add. No one wants em, coz again, even without scanning you get ore isk while sitting in anomalies

DED 5/10 - might be a good idea to add 5/10 DED sites to nullsec? You did add 1-3 ded sites to lowsec, it is not fair for nullsec not having em.

Rogue drones - are the worst ever, since last update on them, and their drop I had completed nearly 120 of em. Dropped just one Nexus chip, and something like 1200 000 isks worth of loot, either make sentient modules better (get their tier up), either add more faction, well, something. Radiance, Hierarchy, Independence, each site gives 30mill isk avarage (10mill without bounty), thats crazy - sitting in nullsec anomaly gives more isk.

in the end we can be sure only about one thing

JUST RUNNING NULLSEC ANOMALIES GIVES MORE ISK, REQUIRES LESS EFFORT AND RISKS, and the funny thing is - running c4-c5 wormholes gives even more isk, incursions also give more isk, blitzrunning level 4 missions gives more isk.... exploration is broken in the terms of profit.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#238 - 2014-10-18 18:54:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Comments on the NPE

Did the first 3 missions on both the Business and Exploration mission sets concurrently.

Cosmic Anomalies 1 of 5 needs an example of the icon you are looking for in the mission instruction wording. The tutorial pop ups that use to show up at this stage did not start. Saying to turn on your sensor over lay to a new player when it should be on from the beginning with out giving more info was not smooth in my opinion.

I accepted two missions at the same time which might be the issue.

Balancing the books 1 showed the station as a mission objective twice.

Info window on warp in not expandable? should be

Mission journal if left open did not update. There needs to be a note saying so or a way to refresh the window with out closing and opening it again.

Mission and jump bridge icons stack and activate the mission radial and not the jump bridge.

If there are auto triggered training and you accept two missions the first triggered training disappears and you have to go searching for it in the help menu.

Balancing the books 3 of 10 triggers the reprocessing tutorial first and not the mining one. The reprocessing tutorial make you get ore before you continue. Mining tutorial does not trigger on warp in to the mining site. General layout does not include ore rock still.
Still not talking about the Mining tab default.

Hacking mission gift "Hacking book" requires Electronics 3 which has to be purchased with out that info in the txt of the mission.

Survey requires training up a skill but that is covered in the text.


Nice talk at EVE Vegas.

Big issue: How to test a non directed NPE.

It would need a testing mode. The same way the new skill lock outs messed up testing on Sisi during the first couple of changes. If they are still in effect for new players they do not show up for alts which are used for testing for the NPE level features. There is no way to create true new characters so testers can really see what a new player sees.


Testing: Knowing what has changed in testing.

Could this new action overlay be used for feature testing so that people that do needed actions for test purposes get skill points on Sisi without the need to go to mass tests or to simplify skill point give away if events can be gated both in time and location.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#239 - 2014-10-19 07:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Hey I have one thought,

Don't tell people which structure to shoot honestly. It's that inability for people to actually use the EvE Wiki, which tells people to shoot, that seperates the good explorers from everyone looking to just run the site and leave. I have come in on a lot of sites that were just cleared but the escalation trigger was never done.

You cant spoon feed exploration, this is supposed to be a profession that makes people think.

I disagree. I think it's a good idea and a much needed change. There's a lot of sites where the escalation structure is situated far from the NPC spawns and new players don't realize it's a major part of the site.


Also while on the subject, the DED 1/10 and 2/10 sites need to have their acceleration gates remain open after the passkey has been used. Too many sites stay active for days on end in systems now due to someone warping out or being destroyed while running the site. Since the gates re-lock after a couple of minutes and CCP removed the respawn mechanic for these sites, nobody can enter those sites and complete them.

Some passkeys are available in Market / Contracts, there's not very many and what is available is usually located very far away. If you can't change the acceleration gates to remain open after being accessed with passkey, then have the passkeys available for sale in the Market from NPC stations.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#240 - 2014-10-19 07:17:18 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Maennas Vaer wrote:


And why should people need to check wiki to do anything in-game? The notifications are great idea, the wiki is full of outdated info anyway.



Because we dont need to spoon feed people, this is not supposed to be a game of instant gratification. There is nothing wrong with people putting 'effort' into their game.


Also considering I and many other helped write and make many of the exploration site pages for the wiki to tell people. Hell im a bitter vet and i still look at the wiki for site info to make sure I dont do something stupid like.... trigger all the rats to shoot me at the same time.

I agree and same here, I spent a lot of time creating and editing pages on various exploration / expedition sites. New players and others in-game should be made aware that Evelopedia is available. Maybe a little note added to the pop up message when warping to the site, nothing major, just something like - "More intel available in Evelopedia" - which will link to Evelopedia.

Also last I checked, most of the Exploration sites listed in Evelopedia are pretty much up to date.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle