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Hard Stripes --Ship Replacement Upgrade

Author
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#1 - 2014-10-17 13:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikk Narrel
You do missions, perform tasks, or otherwise act in a way that makes a faction approve of you.

In exchange for your service, you are given the use of a ship better than the typical replacement vessel.
(Non transferable, and does not reprocess above the original replacement ship's value)

For each level of replacement ship, comparable to the level of mission agents you could access, you are given use of a better vessel.
No tech 2 ships for this, but some factions may have either navy or pirate options.

EDIT: Thanks to a perhaps unintended suggestion from Paranoid Loyd, I am modifying this slightly.
The ships described below would all have canned fittings, which could not be modified.
( So yes, fittings would be not just included, but locked in place)
SECOND EDIT: It should help to point out that these ships do not compare well to player built items.
They have a more practical comparison to the NPC ships which get plowed through in missions and ratting already.
Most know how to fit against them, and how to beat them as a result.

Level 1: Entry level
Same ship as all start with.

Level 2: Upgrade level 1
You have a frigate appropriate for the faction's race you impressed.

Level 3: Upgrade level 2
Option 1: You can use a faction frigate, be it pirate or navy.
Option 2: You can have a cruiser appropriate for the faction's race you impressed.

Level 4: Upgrade level 3
Option 1: You can use a faction cruiser, be it pirate or navy.
Option 2: You can have a battleship appropriate for the faction's race you impressed.

Expected advantage:
Mission runners may become willing to risk exposure in higher risk areas, such as low or null, with greater frequency.
This could include deliberate forays for non mission purposes, such as PvP.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#2 - 2014-10-17 14:08:31 UTC
You keep saying ship
But not what ship
What ship are we looking at here?
Is there even a ship?
If so what is this ship?

See what i mean? Thats sort of how that is organized except in reverse

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#3 - 2014-10-17 14:29:29 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
You keep saying ship
But not what ship
What ship are we looking at here?
Is there even a ship?
If so what is this ship?

See what i mean? Thats sort of how that is organized except in reverse

The level 1 ship is the one we currently get, based on your pilot's race origin.
That is 4 different ships, but limited to one possible per pilot.

For each successive level, depending on balance, we could either have a designated ship for each option type, or possibly multiple options to choose from based off what is earned.

Ship selection is specifically a balance consideration.

This idea is not about specific ships, especially since balance may dictate that a reduced power variant of the typical ship may be called for.
(IE: the noob ship, as compared to other T1 frigates)
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#4 - 2014-10-17 14:32:04 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
You keep saying ship
But not what ship
What ship are we looking at here?
Is there even a ship?
If so what is this ship?

See what i mean? Thats sort of how that is organized except in reverse

The level 1 ship is the one we currently get, based on your pilot's race origin.
That is 4 different ships, but limited to one possible per pilot.

For each successive level, depending on balance, we could either have a designated ship for each option type, or possibly multiple options to choose from based off what is earned.

Ship selection is specifically a balance consideration.

This idea is not about specific ships, especially since balance may dictate that a reduced power variant of the typical ship may be called for.
(IE: the noob ship, as compared to other T1 frigates)


So your saying i could upgrade my kronos by doing gallente missions? Making it even more powerful than it already is? Or just T1 Ships here? And if they do upgrade how do you know someone is flying an upgraded ship and how powerful it will be because of the upgrades?

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#5 - 2014-10-17 14:35:50 UTC
Wait, just tossing faction ships at mission runners?

That's dumb.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-10-17 14:43:31 UTC
I thought this was one use for LP, to buy Faction Navy ships instead of the tech II ones?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#7 - 2014-10-17 14:45:35 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
So your saying i could upgrade my kronos by doing gallente missions? Making it even more powerful than it already is? Or just T1 Ships here? And if they do upgrade how do you know someone is flying an upgraded ship and how powerful it will be because of the upgrades?

No.

This is not an upgrade to the ship you are using.

The ship replacement program, that pops a fresh ship into your hangar when you dock up in a pod... THAT is what is being upgraded.

For reference, hard stripes is a military expression. It refers to soldiers who trained as infantry being rewarded by always having a base rank minimum as sergeant, with promotions improving off of that level.

This is a replacement ship upgrade, not an improvement to your existing ship.
It just means that if you dock your pod, and have nothing else in the hangar, you get better than the usual noob ship.

If you want the option to use the replacement ship rather than your other local ships, is a possible option for this.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2014-10-17 14:56:55 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Wait, just tossing faction ships at mission runners?

That's dumb.

That is assuming a lot of details.

For someone who has earned level 4 mission access, being able to use a T1 BS for free, or possibly a faction cruiser, seems unlikely to be unbalancing.
The ship, as specified in the OP, cannot be backed into sale.
It is not good in reprocessing for free ISK any more than the existing noob ship.

Added to which, the market will not be threatened by this as competition, for the same reasons noob ships are not a major obstacle to T1 frigate sales.

Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I thought this was one use for LP, to buy Faction Navy ships instead of the tech II ones?


This will have no effect on that.

It is an upgrade to the noob ship concept, for the purpose of keeping a player active at a level of play more appropriate to their abilities.
If ship loss is diminished as an obstacle to play, then in theory, more players will be active by the same degree.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-10-17 15:06:01 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
...
For someone who has earned level 4 mission access, being able to use a T1 BS for free, or possibly a faction cruiser, seems unlikely to be unbalancing.
The ship, as specified in the OP, cannot be backed into sale.
...
Added to which, the market will not be threatened by this as competition, for the same reasons noob ships are not a major obstacle to T1 frigate sales.

Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I thought this was one use for LP, to buy Faction Navy ships instead of the tech II ones?


This will have no effect on that.

It is an upgrade to the noob ship concept, for the purpose of keeping a player active at a level of play more appropriate to their abilities.
If ship loss is diminished as an obstacle to play, then in theory, more players will be active by the same degree.


Giving out free ships will certainly affect the sales of the ships you no longer buy at least, and would also impact faction ship sales if they are an enhanced varient.

I understand the drive of the OP to reward service to a faction but this already comes from LP and faction gear as far as I'm concerned.
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#10 - 2014-10-17 15:12:44 UTC
So, you want to fly a shiny ship, but don't have the necessary isk, don't want to be bothered earning said isk, and don't want to buy a plex to get you the isk, so instead you complain to CCP like a spoiled kid that wants a new toy.

I'm sorry, but this is a harsh game in which you have to set yourself a goal to work towards. You don't get "given" stuff unless if it's by another (usually dumber) player. You want something? Then work for it.
And that's even without considering what this would do to the economy...

A big no from my side should be enough, alongside a good HTFU
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#11 - 2014-10-17 15:15:48 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Giving out free ships will certainly affect the sales of the ships you no longer buy at least, and would also impact faction ship sales if they are an enhanced varient.

I understand the drive of the OP to reward service to a faction but this already comes from LP and faction gear as far as I'm concerned.

It may help to keep in mind, that these ships would be significantly below the level which the pilot would be capable of flying.

Yes, A level 4 mission runner could get an unfitted T1 BS.
Or, possibly, an unfitted faction cruiser.
Neither of which are practical for a level 4 mission, especially with no fittings.
BUT: They give a much better recovery posture for players wanting to get back into action faster, than the noob frigate

Balance depending: a reduced capability version, specifically to minimize market impact.

A main point, being that the market will always have more desirable ships to offer.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#12 - 2014-10-17 15:22:59 UTC
Arden Elenduil wrote:
So, you want to fly a shiny ship, but don't have the necessary isk, don't want to be bothered earning said isk, and don't want to buy a plex to get you the isk, so instead you complain to CCP like a spoiled kid that wants a new toy.

I'm sorry, but this is a harsh game in which you have to set yourself a goal to work towards. You don't get "given" stuff unless if it's by another (usually dumber) player. You want something? Then work for it.
And that's even without considering what this would do to the economy...

A big no from my side should be enough, alongside a good HTFU

Ad hominem for the win, once more.

Debating involves discussing the topic, not slandering the author in the hopes to discredit them.

This idea is not for myself, as you would imply so desperately.

Try to raise the bar on your thinking, about how it would affect the general player population instead.

If that is outside your skill set, don't feel bad about sitting quietly and reading what others write.
I would rather people wondered whether you were a fool, than have you post again like this and remove all doubts.
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#13 - 2014-10-17 15:25:50 UTC
Alright, explain to me then, in what way this would be good for the game in general.
Both from a gameplay and economical point of view.
What are the pros, cons and mechanics that you would use to implement it.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-10-17 15:27:40 UTC
The problem is not so much that a Frigate would cannibalise the Frigate market - as you rightly say this doesn't happen currently - but that a free BC however weakened would trash the Cruiser market, a free BS the BC market, etc.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#15 - 2014-10-17 15:41:43 UTC
I can just about live with noobships condensing out of the quantum foam as if by magic but the idea of anything even slightly more useful appearing the same way (even leaving aside the effect this would have on various markets) does not appeal to me in the slightest .

Not supported.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#16 - 2014-10-17 15:48:32 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
The problem is not so much that a Frigate would cannibalise the Frigate market - as you rightly say this doesn't happen currently - but that a free BC however weakened would trash the Cruiser market, a free BS the BC market, etc.

Ok, I see what you are driving at here, but I must point out that I believe you are over simplifying the details.

Each class of ship is more than simply a size upgrade of the one previous to it.

A cruiser, even a free one, won't be a significant obstacle to the frigate and destroyer market.
The play style has too many other differences.

I am unclear why you mention battle-cruisers.
Of all the ships, I would say these are an obvious example of how a class is more than just a size rating.
Command modules are a huge item, in considering which ship to fly.
Like destroyers, these fill a unique role which I avoided due to such overlap concerns.

That said, the BS and cruisers do not have a major overlap, in my opinion.

As I keep pointing out, this would need detail tweaking for balance.
We can't expect to predict results beyond a certain point, so this is necessary.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#17 - 2014-10-17 15:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikk Narrel
Arden Elenduil wrote:
Alright, explain to me then, in what way this would be good for the game in general.
Both from a gameplay and economical point of view.
What are the pros, cons and mechanics that you would use to implement it.

Gameplay:
Ship replacement is a proven obstacle, in both player morale as well as ISK requirements.
Even if a player could afford to immediately replace a lost ship, the sense of loss involved causes many to end a play session with negative views.
Being able to jump right back into the action, even if just to vent and rage nuke some hostile NPC ships, seems more likely to occur if the player is not held back by considerations in other areas.

Additionally, the mission runner faction system is prone to affecting a segment of the player base quite often associated with non pvp aspects.
If this segment, (even by perception alone), could be seen as becoming more active in other areas of the game as a result, I believe a majority would be pleased.
Joe Mission-runner might decide to blow off some time between missions, and take that free ship and be reckless with it. Reckless by shooting at other players in low or null sec, so that precious security and or faction rating is less at risk.

I would like to see that, and think many others would as well
Iain Cariaba
#18 - 2014-10-17 16:01:32 UTC
So this idea is pretty much "let's give something to the mission runners for doing nothing more then they were going to do anyway."

1: the free noobships are the worst ship in the game, because you get what you pay for.
2: as previously stated, your inane idea would decimate the market. why buy a ship from another player when you can get a freebie from the next station?
3: hypocritical shiptoasts do far more towards discrediting yourself than any ad hominem post aimed towards you could.
Paranoid Loyd
#19 - 2014-10-17 16:07:23 UTC
Wow, just wow. Shocked OP has no clue how this game works.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#20 - 2014-10-17 16:16:51 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Wow, just wow. Shocked OP has no clue how this game works.

I have seen clearer points made in a fortune cookie.

Feel free to explain yourself, and in particular how you can infer my so-called lack of experience to what I have posted here.
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