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Crime & Punishment

 
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Who Gets All The Freighter Ganking Loot?
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CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#121 - 2014-10-17 05:21:50 UTC
it going. So they raise some funds, lets say from ticket sales, or maybe even have an IPO and sell stock. (I think you know where this is going now) So low and behold, more movies are made. I am entertained even more now!

Basically, to sum it up easily for you. It is not fiscally viable to do what you want. No corporation does this, ever. Anywhere. Well maybe the ones in bankruptcy courts do, but that's why they are there. There needs to be funds for planning, for logistics, for operations. Hence the mentioned wallet. And from your aspect because I willing provided assets & ISK to a group of people I was scammed. I call it the price of entertainment. The monthly shares are my movie ticket. Now if you can't grasp this aspect of simple finance and economics, please go read F. K. Langdana's book Sustaining Domestic Budget Deficits in Open Economies

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#122 - 2014-10-17 09:40:17 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Not anymore than you, please answer the question.


Yes, way more than I am. You're demanding that I answer your rhetorical question. The only purpose that would serve is to somehow validate your untenable position. I'll humor you though: Sure, loot goes to "make up the deficit." That doesn't mean that the loot does not FAR exceed the deficit.

Quote:
Mike Adoulin was there if you want to ask him, had me locked up in his isktar and congratulated me after I took it.
And what stealth? I clearly stated what I meant. You can perceive it as bragging if it makes you feel better, I was citing an example from my personal experience and pointing out I don't even try to hurt them while there are plenty out there that do. The point was that your perceived "TON" of isk may not be as much as you think it is. I ask again, how much do you think they have made? Can you quantify it any better than a "TON"?


I've already quantified it "better than a 'TON'" here. Please try to keep pace. I've also asked CODE leadership, in this thread, for that data. Their refusal to answer tells its own story. Why don't you ask them, considering you're cozy enough with them to be cuddled right up to their gank victims to steal 5 bill in loot? Maybe they will oblige.

Quote:

Welp what? You made the analogy. I pointed out it was flawed. The point of collecting the isk is to generate hilarious content while blowing stuff up, that has been achieved many times over and is still going strong. So the people got what they expected, no fraud, no swindle, no scam.


Confirming that you believe cleaning out the CODE SRP tomorrow and shutting it all down would NOT indicate that a scam had taken place.

I'm not exactly sure what it is you are trying to accomplish here. Are you attempting to convince me that CODE is NOT an extremely profitable enterprise fattening the ISK wallets of those running it? If so, why do you care so much about my conclusion? If not, then what's your point? I believe it is a fine scam, worthy of praise, and analysis. I believe that the loot goes partly toward funding the SRP but mostly toward fattening their wallets. I believe that it is hilarious that CODE isn't sharing loot with their gank pilots. That is, after all, in response to the OP. You apparently believe that I am wrong, that CODE is not very profitable due to occasional empty freighters, and stolen loots, and is therefore NOT a fine scam, but some sort of non-profit enterprise that is barely breaking even.

Until CODE steps up and provides a definitive answer, I'll be content to go on believing that it's all about the money. Why? Because it's always all about the money, unless proven otherwise. And their lack of transparency on the issue backs up my conclusion.


I can't say much for the individual corps, but James is very consistent with shovelling out the SRP for catalyst ganking. We respect shareholders, and fund all manner of small and medium scale ganking operations besides the high-profile freighter ganks.

And it's quite a tight community that we have. If anything, we honor deals and rules made with each other.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#123 - 2014-10-17 12:03:45 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I can't say much for the individual corps, but James is very consistent with shovelling out the SRP for catalyst ganking. We respect shareholders, and fund all manner of small and medium scale ganking operations besides the high-profile freighter ganks.

And it's quite a tight community that we have. If anything, we honor deals and rules made with each other.
But..But... CODE. are gankers and James is a self confessed ex-goon scammer. You're all internet spaceship criminals, belligerent undesirables and generally untrustworthy.

Because you blow up internet spaceships, none of the things you say can be true, whether they be instructions on how to not get ganked or in relation to shares, donations, SRP's etc.

RollEvil

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#124 - 2014-10-17 12:11:24 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Because you blow up internet spaceships, none of the things you say can be true, whether they be instructions on how to not get ganked or in relation to shares, donations, SRP's etc. RollEvil


Suddenly, my ban in the anti-ganking channel makes sense. Bad root, teaching people how to do API background checks.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#125 - 2014-10-17 13:55:25 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Suddenly, my ban in the anti-ganking channel makes sense. Bad root, teaching people how to do API background checks.
That sounds about right going by the majority of their presence on the forums.

Unfortunately people like Bronson who are having fun with it are in the minority. AG is serious business, however incompetent.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#126 - 2014-10-17 14:10:50 UTC
We should put Beers Veldspar and Brincess Pride into a thread together where they can argue in circles about why CODE does not share the billions they make while ganking empty Freighters at a loss.

perpetuum mobile carebearum

Evil RatKid
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#127 - 2014-10-17 14:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Amyclas Amatin wrote:

I can't say much for the individual corps, but James is very consistent with shovelling out the SRP for catalyst ganking. We respect shareholders, and fund all manner of small and medium scale ganking operations besides the high-profile freighter ganks.

And it's quite a tight community that we have. If anything, we honor deals and rules made with each other.


Yes, we all acknowledge that James reimbs the cheap-ass gank cats. That was never the issue being discussed. We also appear to be in agreement that CODE's managment keeps the loot from the ganks (minus said T1 reimbs and occasional losses to loot thieves). While most would agree that this == /thread, the howls of outrage and rationalizing from CODE seems to indicate some sort of deep-seated offense has been committed by pointing this fact out. Without the absolute crapstorm of outrage, this thread would only be about 1 page long.

I suppose pages and pages of slobbering, spittle-drenched outrage passes for content on the forums now days.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#128 - 2014-10-17 14:27:32 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
We should put Beers Veldspar and Brincess Pride into a thread together where they can argue in circles about why CODE does not share the billions they make while ganking empty Freighters at a loss.

perpetuum mobile carebearum


"Why" was never the question. If you glance at the top of your page to the title of the thread, you may notice that "who" gets the loot was the only thing the OP asks. And that's been answered, many times. The pro-CODE apologists appear to be the only ones who need to discuss, ad nauseam, WHY that is the case.

Asking why he keeps the loot is like asking why Bill Gates keeps so much of the profits Microsoft creates. It's just a ridiculous and rhetorical question.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#129 - 2014-10-17 15:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote:
... please go read F. K. Langdana's book Sustaining Domestic Budget Deficits in Open Economies


Does this book use paragraphs? Because I have to be honest, my mind kind of trailed off somewhere in part A of your 2-part stream-of-consciousness post once I realized no paragraphs were to be had.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#130 - 2014-10-17 21:34:48 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote:
... please go read F. K. Langdana's book Sustaining Domestic Budget Deficits in Open Economies


Does this book use paragraphs? Because I have to be honest, my mind kind of trailed off somewhere in part A of your 2-part stream-of-consciousness post once I realized no paragraphs were to be had.


It does... and that was mostly my point.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#131 - 2014-10-18 05:39:22 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:

I can't say much for the individual corps, but James is very consistent with shovelling out the SRP for catalyst ganking. We respect shareholders, and fund all manner of small and medium scale ganking operations besides the high-profile freighter ganks.

And it's quite a tight community that we have. If anything, we honor deals and rules made with each other.


Yes, we all acknowledge that James reimbs the cheap-ass gank cats. That was never the issue being discussed. We also appear to be in agreement that CODE's managment keeps the loot from the ganks (minus said T1 reimbs and occasional losses to loot thieves). While most would agree that this == /thread, the howls of outrage and rationalizing from CODE seems to indicate some sort of deep-seated offense has been committed by pointing this fact out. Without the absolute crapstorm of outrage, this thread would only be about 1 page long.

I suppose pages and pages of slobbering, spittle-drenched outrage passes for content on the forums now days.


Princess, I'm not sure you appreciate the sheer volume of catalysts we reimburse. A few billion a month does not cover it. And we have often come close to running dry.

As it is, we can't afford to reimburse anything but catalysts.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#132 - 2014-10-18 08:02:42 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:

I can't say much for the individual corps, but James is very consistent with shovelling out the SRP for catalyst ganking. We respect shareholders, and fund all manner of small and medium scale ganking operations besides the high-profile freighter ganks.

And it's quite a tight community that we have. If anything, we honor deals and rules made with each other.


Yes, we all acknowledge that James reimbs the cheap-ass gank cats. That was never the issue being discussed. We also appear to be in agreement that CODE's managment keeps the loot from the ganks (minus said T1 reimbs and occasional losses to loot thieves). While most would agree that this == /thread, the howls of outrage and rationalizing from CODE seems to indicate some sort of deep-seated offense has been committed by pointing this fact out. Without the absolute crapstorm of outrage, this thread would only be about 1 page long.

I suppose pages and pages of slobbering, spittle-drenched outrage passes for content on the forums now days.


Princess, I'm not sure you appreciate the sheer volume of catalysts we reimburse. A few billion a month does not cover it. And we have often come close to running dry.

As it is, we can't afford to reimburse anything but catalysts.


Amy are you OK?
So, Amy are you OK?
Are you OK, Amy?
Amy, are you OK?
So, Amy, are you OK?
Are you OK, Amy?
Amy, are you OK?
So, Amy, are you OK?
Are you OK, Amy?
Amy, are you OK?
So, Amy, are you OK,?
Are you OK, Amy?

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#133 - 2014-10-18 08:24:24 UTC
Still not clear on how any of this is the business of anyone outside the New Order.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#134 - 2014-10-18 16:58:37 UTC
ITT pubbies angry that the loot from their ganked ships goes towards more ganking ships so more people can die.

RIP Richard A. Butt
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#135 - 2014-10-18 20:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Jar
admiral root wrote:
Still not clear on how any of this is the business of anyone outside the New Order.


Angry people who got ganked are trying(poorly) to sow division in CODE so they won't get ganked again. Breaking up CODE is their business.
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#136 - 2014-10-18 21:21:22 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Still not clear on how any of this is the business of anyone outside the New Order.


Angry people who got ganked are trying(poorly) to sow division in CODE so they won't get ganked again. Breaking up CODE is their business.



Because you know, we got into purely for the ISK. GONNA MAKE IT SPACE RAIN!

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#137 - 2014-10-19 04:17:25 UTC
I"m OK, AC,
AC, I Really am OK.

The financial transparency and integrity of a public company is everybody's business! Buy New Order Shares today!!! It is still the best investment in New Eden!

For anyone who thinks we are mindlessly griefing by ganking, please note that The New Order has obligations to its shareholders to make EVERYTHING in high-sec go boom!

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#138 - 2014-10-19 05:48:40 UTC
My impression is that the individual gankers get to keep the freighter loot, that is the incentive for participating in the gank fleets. As far as being a company, CODE should be in Chapter 7 liquidation, as it endlessly bleeds money with no hope of ever making a profit. The "shareholders" are mostly incredibly bored nullsec folks looking for "tears," as their own area of the game is painfully stagnant and miserable.

In the end, the solution to stopping CODE isn't AG fleets or lame player driven attempts to regulate highsec, as the current mechanics make that effectively impossible. The solution is longer aggression timers for -10 sec status gankers and a crackdown on bumping.
Iain Cariaba
#139 - 2014-10-19 06:44:03 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
My impression is that the individual gankers get to keep the freighter loot, that is the incentive for participating in the gank fleets. As far as being a company, CODE should be in Chapter 7 liquidation, as it endlessly bleeds money with no hope of ever making a profit. The "shareholders" are mostly incredibly bored nullsec folks looking for "tears," as their own area of the game is painfully stagnant and miserable.

In the end, the solution to stopping CODE isn't AG fleets or lame player driven attempts to regulate highsec, as the current mechanics make that effectively impossible. The solution is longer aggression timers for -10 sec status gankers and a crackdown on bumping.

Ah yes, typical Veers logic. Highsec ganking will never be nerfed enough for Veers until he can fully bot his incursions, risk free from any kind of negative player interaction. Nerfs for all that may threaten the mighty killmail whore, Veers Belvar!!!!

No matter how you nerf ganking and bumping, it will always remain. The gankers will always adapt. Carebears like Veers will always whine for more nerfs. After all, it seems to be the nature of the carebear to simply stick his fingers in his ears and start screeching for nerfs any time the ganker tries to tell him how to not get ganked.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#140 - 2014-10-19 07:35:53 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
My impression is that the individual gankers get to keep the freighter loot, that is the incentive for participating in the gank fleets. As far as being a company, CODE should be in Chapter 7 liquidation, as it endlessly bleeds money with no hope of ever making a profit. The "shareholders" are mostly incredibly bored nullsec folks looking for "tears," as their own area of the game is painfully stagnant and miserable.

In the end, the solution to stopping CODE isn't AG fleets or lame player driven attempts to regulate highsec, as the current mechanics make that effectively impossible. The solution is longer aggression timers for -10 sec status gankers and a crackdown on bumping.

Ah yes, typical Veers logic. Highsec ganking will never be nerfed enough for Veers until he can fully bot his incursions, risk free from any kind of negative player interaction. Nerfs for all that may threaten the mighty killmail *****, Veers Belvar!!!!

No matter how you nerf ganking and bumping, it will always remain. The gankers will always adapt. Carebears like Veers will always whine for more nerfs. After all, it seems to be the nature of the carebear to simply stick his fingers in his ears and start screeching for nerfs any time the ganker tries to tell him how to not get ganked.


That was such a delusional post that I can only assume it was a failed troll attempt. Let's try some facts, for a change:

1. Incursions cannot be botted. Between moving, shooting, broadcasting, switching sites, contests, FC orders, etc.... it is completely impossible to bot them. Find a new talking point.

2. Incursion running is already pretty gank proof. Between competent pilots, logis on grid, and boosts, the gankers don't even bother. It's the miners and haulers, who cannot shoot back, that they target. And it is for them that I express my sympathies.

3. Nerfs to achieve appropriate balance are laudable. The goal isn't to stop all ganking, rather the goal is to provide for appropriate punishments for criminal activity, and to appropriately deal with the way bumping is used by gankers.

Please do try a bit harder next time, the quality of the CODE posters here has been in something of a tailspin of late.