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Gevlon's Second Doozie

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#301 - 2014-10-17 03:35:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

For the record, i have problems with Occupancy Sov as an idea (I think the people who have that idea are mostly PVPrs who don't understand PVErs like me and it's foolish to make 'people you don't understand' the corner stone of a sov system this is why Dominion Sov with it's 'activity indexes' has failed). I don't like a lot of the ideas people have (like NPC space in every region) also. but I think they made those proposals because they are mistaken, not because they are 'evil'.

I'm curious how you expect occupancy based sov to negatively impact your play style


Exactly who said anything about negativly impacting my play style? I clearly stated my problem with the idea of occupancy sov: PVPers don't understand non-pvp players, basing a whioel sov system off of people you don't understand it a mistake waiting to happen.

Side note, I think the term "play style" is the dumbest thing anyone has ever come up with when talking about a video game.


We understand the pve types, its a big reason why we are so successful in dealing with themBlink
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#302 - 2014-10-17 04:01:27 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Its almost like they know nothing about null and its history.

Goons used to be cute and fuzzy, like hero is now, with mass frigates and such. But then they blue'd a bunch of people, creating the greater goon community or something similar, and got a lot of space, more then BoB ever had.

Is any of that factually incorrect? P


Oh look, the Godwin's Law of Eve. Roll
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#303 - 2014-10-17 04:13:10 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Its almost like they know nothing about null and its history.

Goons used to be cute and fuzzy, like hero is now, with mass frigates and such. But then they blue'd a bunch of people, creating the greater goon community or something similar, and got a lot of space, more then BoB ever had.

Is any of that factually incorrect? P


Oh look, the Godwin's Law of Eve. Roll

So no factual inaccuracies then, good to know. Lol
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#304 - 2014-10-17 04:17:42 UTC
I don't know. The whole issue of Null Sec is self defeating. It happens in all games that let one side get too powerful.

Eventually the losing side gets tired of losing so they stop playing and the winning side gets tired of no one to fight so they stop playing.

This is a problem EVE cannot solve. But then again... EVE is one of those games I have sinking feeling won't be around in 5-10 years without going F2P. I don't see that working though, but who knows as Ultima Online is still around.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#305 - 2014-10-17 04:31:54 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know. The whole issue of Null Sec is self defeating. It happens in all games that let one side get too powerful.

Eventually the losing side gets tired of losing so they stop playing and the winning side gets tired of no one to fight so they stop playing.

This is a problem EVE cannot solve. But then again... EVE is one of those games I have sinking feeling won't be around in 5-10 years without going F2P. I don't see that working though, but who knows as Ultima Online is still around.

Disagree.

PvP games are most popular when they are called PvP but most resemble PvE. Why? Because in video games players have a low tolerance for risk. And what usually happens is that the losing side joins the winning side and most are happy because they can say they are on the winning side except the one kid who always wanted to play the Indian instead of the Cowboy.

So I don't agree with Devlon but in some ways agree with the OP. Players creating theme parks is effective in retaining their members. They have eliminated the risk while allowing their members to call themselves l33t PvPers. However it is not going to grow the overall game. For that to happen it is up to CCP to create an environment and content that improves the new player experience for casuals. Unfortunately CCP has grown accustomed to their player base creating the content and CCP is now relegated to the next rebalancing and texturing of ships.

This is where I disagree with the OP. If CCP was good at creating other games then EvE could survive as a niche game. Unfortunately CCP has tried to fund new projects using a niche game. That is bad news. Now either CCP has to lose their ambitions and say EvE is it or figure out how to create something else successful. What happens in the next year will reveal how realistic or delusional CCP is.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#306 - 2014-10-17 04:43:52 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know. The whole issue of Null Sec is self defeating. It happens in all games that let one side get too powerful.

Eventually the losing side gets tired of losing so they stop playing and the winning side gets tired of no one to fight so they stop playing.

This is a problem EVE cannot solve. But then again... EVE is one of those games I have sinking feeling won't be around in 5-10 years without going F2P. I don't see that working though, but who knows as Ultima Online is still around.

Disagree.

PvP games are most popular when they are called PvP but most resemble PvE. Why? Because in video games players have a low tolerance for risk. And what usually happens is that the losing side joins the winning side and most are happy because they can say they are on the winning side except the one kid who always wanted to play the Indian instead of the Cowboy.

So I don't agree with Devlon but in some ways agree with the OP. Players creating theme parks is effective in retaining their members. They have eliminated the risk while allowing their members to call themselves l33t PvPers. However it is not going to grow the overall game. For that to happen it is up to CCP to create an environment and content that improves the new player experience for casuals. Unfortunately CCP has grown accustomed to their player base creating the content and CCP is now relegated to the next rebalancing and texturing of ships.

This is where I disagree with the OP. If CCP was good at creating other games then EvE could survive as a niche game. Unfortunately CCP has tried to fund new projects using a niche game. That is bad news. Now either CCP has to lose their ambitions and say EvE is it or figure out how to create something else successful. What happens in the next year will reveal how realistic or delusional CCP is.


Hrm... I'm not sure how you are disagreeing, but what I was referring to is the sandbox dilemma with open PVP. Games that have historically had pure sandbox pvp often run into one side completely dominating. Examples of this were various PK alliances in Ultima Online (this was before team speak too), Death Head Legion in Shadowbane, and Ruin in Warhammer Online. Warhammer Online was less of a sandbox, but the PVP was rather open.

Each of these games ended up with the problem that one side dominated and the other side basically gave up. Its realistic like real war, but real war often does not make a fun time for either side of the victory.

I've been playing Albion Online recently. Its an open sandbox much like Ultima Online was (all gear is player crafted and you drop all your gear when you die). However, it has the same problem with one or two guilds zerging and dominating while the other players hide in fear. Its not really sustainable in the long term.

The people who made Dark Age of Camelot realized you have to have exactly 3 equal factions. If one dominates the other two generally ally until one of them dominates and the now loser switches sides. I think they are trying that formula for Camelot Unchained which makes it a sort of sand-park. I'm not sure what Archeage is doing. That games combat is too dull though.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#307 - 2014-10-17 05:40:41 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:

There is no occasional belt rat on top, because time going to belts is time not ratting therefore no ticks. Same with scanning signatures.


If this attitude is widespread there is no wonder noone makes money.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#308 - 2014-10-17 05:42:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


A bog standard t2 cruise raven will beat null income. Blitzing missions isnt hard.


With a fabled agent that sends you just within the local system, maybe.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#309 - 2014-10-17 06:37:32 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Its almost like they know nothing about null and its history.

Goons used to be cute and fuzzy, like hero is now, with mass frigates and such. But then they blue'd a bunch of people, creating the greater goon community or something similar, and got a lot of space, more then BoB ever had.

Is any of that factually incorrect? P


Oh look, the Godwin's Law of Eve. Roll

So no factual inaccuracies then, good to know. Lol


Don't tell anyone, but we are also an alliance, made up of corporations. We also have a CEO, and our alliance is named with an acronym, just like BoB.

The shame is almost unbearable.
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#310 - 2014-10-17 07:06:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Force projection isnt as big an issue as many think, its what happens when we arrive. Right now our fleets are effectivly immortal vs smaller alliances.


TL;DR: Nerf logi, really hard.

Anyway, he's right. Whether they can pop up out of nowhere or not, the fact remains that the critical mass of ships required to break sufficient amounts of reps are only available to a small few groups in the game.

If they have to slowboat or not, you're still not going to beat their fleet once they get there.

And that's the real problem.


Someone came up with the idea of logistics being affected by resists. It s a pretty good idea.

RIP Richard A. Butt
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#311 - 2014-10-17 07:56:09 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
So how do you get such a ship for free? You make it.


"My time is worth nothing"

RIP Richard A. Butt
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#312 - 2014-10-17 08:21:10 UTC
Syllviaa wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
So how do you get such a ship for free? You make it.


"My time is worth nothing"

Minerals you mine yourself are free too. I guess that also extends to POS and jump fuel, right? And since all those things are free... that means moon goo is free too!
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#313 - 2014-10-17 08:25:17 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
Syllviaa wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
So how do you get such a ship for free? You make it.


"My time is worth nothing"

Minerals you mine yourself are free too. I guess that also extends to POS and jump fuel, right? And since all those things are free... that means moon goo is free too!


Except it's not, because my time is worth something.

RIP Richard A. Butt
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#314 - 2014-10-17 08:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Syllviaa wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:
Syllviaa wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
So how do you get such a ship for free? You make it.


"My time is worth nothing"

Minerals you mine yourself are free too. I guess that also extends to POS and jump fuel, right? And since all those things are free... that means moon goo is free too!


Except it's not, because my time is worth something.


Time is worthless, especially if you play game when it passes.

If you want to get money, you have to make things, do work, not "sell your time". If one can do work in one minute, that for you will take like an hour, than he won and can play the game in this worthless time of his.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#315 - 2014-10-17 08:35:45 UTC
I just wanted to state that the answer to this is C) The Magna Carta
But my intel might be off.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#316 - 2014-10-17 08:37:33 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Time is worthless, especially if you play game when it passes.

If you want to get money, you have to make things, do work, not "sell your time". If one can do work in one minute, that for you will take like an hour, than he won and can play the game in this worthless time of his.


You know that time is factored in to the cost of basically everything right?

RIP Richard A. Butt
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#317 - 2014-10-17 08:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Syllviaa wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Time is worthless, especially if you play game when it passes.

If you want to get money, you have to make things, do work, not "sell your time". If one can do work in one minute, that for you will take like an hour, than he won and can play the game in this worthless time of his.


You know that time is factored in to the cost of basically everything right?


So what, noone pay you for playing the game in the first place. You have to pay them, monthly. The same amount of money.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#318 - 2014-10-17 08:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Syllviaa
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Syllviaa wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Time is worthless, especially if you play game when it passes.

If you want to get money, you have to make things, do work, not "sell your time". If one can do work in one minute, that for you will take like an hour, than he won and can play the game in this worthless time of his.


You know that time is factored in to the cost of basically everything right?


So what, noone pay you for playing the game in the first place. You have to pay them, monthly. The same amount of money.


People who watch my stream pay me for playing the game. Rekt. My time is worth something & people are willing to pay me for it. Since your time is worth nothing, would you mind supplying me with 30 million Gallente fuel blocks per month for 15% Jita price?

RIP Richard A. Butt
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#319 - 2014-10-17 08:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
They pay you, because they like how you play the game, not because you play it. Rekt enough?

Quote:
My time is worth something & people are willing to pay me for it


When someone can just gank your freighter, than your work is gone, you have waited for work to complete for some time, this is not the time that is worth something, but the work you do. And gankers work can be much more priced than your "time". Goons know something about it.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#320 - 2014-10-17 09:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Quote:
Since your time is worth nothing, would you mind supplying me with 30 million Gallente fuel blocks per month for 15% Jita price?

Why would you try to convince me? You would destroy my freighter and loot the fuel blocks for less if you would know how to do that.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!