These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Rebalance of Titans
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2014-10-17 09:00:32 UTC
Before you read my post, please understand that:
1) I've flown at least one Titan since 2007
2) I own multiple supercaps
3) I've personally built scores of supercaps for my alliance over the years

Titan weapons should not be buffed in this way

EVE does not need an I-win button, and that's precisely what Dominion Titans were. They acted as an apex force only beatable with more of the same, and with the upcoming jump changes that issue would only be exacerbated. Every ship class in EVE needs a weakness and with their high durability, Titans that are effective against battleships would counter everything able to damage them.

Do Titans need a balancing pass? Yes, absolutely. More importantly, they need a well-defined role. The idea of damage-dealer should be reconsidered in favour of ideas that support fleets. We already have a foundation for this with the strong fleet bonuses, jump portal and clone vat bay. Let's build on these and make Titans something every large fleet would find useful, but at the same time not a force solely in themselves.

If you want Titans to be exciting and useful, come up with a role more interesting than 'shoots everything'.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2014-10-17 09:04:33 UTC
xttz wrote:
Before you read my post, please understand that:
1) I've flown at least one Titan since 2007
2) I own multiple supercaps
3) I've personally built scores of supercaps for my alliance over the years

Titan weapons should not be buffed in this way

EVE does not need an I-win button, and that's precisely what Dominion Titans were. They acted as an apex force only beatable with more of the same, and with the upcoming jump changes that issue would only be exacerbated. Every ship class in EVE needs a weakness and with their high durability, Titans that are effective against battleships would counter everything able to damage them.

Do Titans need a balancing pass? Yes, absolutely. More importantly, they need a well-defined role. The idea of damage-dealer should be reconsidered in favour of ideas that support fleets. We already have a foundation for this with the strong fleet bonuses, jump portal and clone vat bay. Let's build on these and make Titans something every large fleet would find useful, but at the same time not a force solely in themselves.

If you want Titans to be exciting and useful, come up with a role more interesting than 'shoots everything'.



Thats a god point ... give them 7% per lvl for links?

make them "The Flag ship" ?
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#23 - 2014-10-17 12:34:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
xttz wrote:
Before you read my post, please understand that:
1) I've flown at least one Titan since 2007
2) I own multiple supercaps
3) I've personally built scores of supercaps for my alliance over the years

Titan weapons should not be buffed in this way

EVE does not need an I-win button, and that's precisely what Dominion Titans were. They acted as an apex force only beatable with more of the same, and with the upcoming jump changes that issue would only be exacerbated. Every ship class in EVE needs a weakness and with their high durability, Titans that are effective against battleships would counter everything able to damage them.

Do Titans need a balancing pass? Yes, absolutely. More importantly, they need a well-defined role. The idea of damage-dealer should be reconsidered in favour of ideas that support fleets. We already have a foundation for this with the strong fleet bonuses, jump portal and clone vat bay. Let's build on these and make Titans something every large fleet would find useful, but at the same time not a force solely in themselves.

If you want Titans to be exciting and useful, come up with a role more interesting than 'shoots everything'.


Maybe just nerfing "shoots enything" would be sufficient? Why would you want 2 ships or even 3 ships of the same kind that can do a work by itself as good as 1 of them? Do everyone must train for Titan? There is a lot of fun flying other ships. Let it be a King of Caps, but even in chess, King is not the strongest figure, rather most handicapped, but you still have to keep it on the field to win.

Let there be a bonus to having it on the field, but not stackable, and going for a lot of same ships having the same bonuses would be unfeasible in a fleet because of price/effect ratio.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2014-10-17 12:58:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
i think that would be cool to have this king on grid, as the ultimate comand ship, 7% pre lvl, with ratial bonuses.

Erebus skrimish and armour links etc.

they can fit links, but comand ships do it better, way not make titans the best, we have nerfer t3's allready.
Stellar Tycoon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-10-17 13:05:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Stellar Tycoon
Give Titans a +900% bonus to Large weapon damage, +100% range increase.

This is to give the titan the impression that it has a lot of guns. So 8 high slots = 80 guns.

Restrict the guns from being grouped. Only one turret module can be active per target ship, to stop them from 'Fck you butan' small ships, but gives them lots of defence vs small gangs.

This would allow them to be fielded as a large force on the battlefield for anti sub-cap.

It would be a strong force multiplier on the field. Keep Doomsdays, but when a doomsday is fired, all weapons are on cooldown for X time (subject to balance, i dunno how DD's work tbh)
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-10-17 13:26:09 UTC
I think the most basic problem supers face is that at their very nature they are at odds with reality and are obsolete as actual military vessels. For example; IRL battleships and dreadnoughts have been phased out with the advent of missiles, and were already extremely vulnerable to airplanes; inherently large vessels like that suffer from a 'death star' problem, namely that the larger they are the larger and more apparent vulnerabilities become.

Even our largest weapons of war, aircraft carriers require an entire battle group of smaller ships fitting different roles to be around them to be relevant and effective. The only use titans have that makes them relevant is their ability to bridge fleets; sure they're the biggest guns on the block but any numbskull with half a brain and a calculator can tell you that it's more cost-effective to bring more smaller ships (if we can call dreadnoughts and battleships small) to get the job done. The reason this isn't seen more commonly is that since this is a game, pilots will always be a higher-value commodity than the ships they fly, since at the end of the day what wins a campaign is the number of people committed.

What turns the debate for capital and supercapital roles from simply a difficult problem to balance into a mind-wracking paradox is the fact that even though this game functions off of a free market, what is valued is completely opposite; there will ALWAYS be a shortage of labor in this game unlike we will ever see in real life for similar situations; inflation in the game has climbed steadily but actual value has dropped as low as it has because the biggest guns on the block, THE largest, strongest and hardest ship to get into is no more than an afterthought to the wallets in many of these power blocs and individuals. Their are no expenditures other than ship losses to cost us anything, and so at the most fundamental level, we cannot fix the superweapons we so value because they are no longer valuable. They are not monoliths of awe and wonder to behold in a battle; they are mass transit on your way to work. They are not doomsday weapons as so stated by their primary weapon; they are big guns that can take enough punishment to be useful.

Unless something is done along the lines of dramatically, MASSIVELY increasing their build costs as well as buffing their hp, damage and DD abilities, titans will likely continue their slide towards irrelevance and be as ubiquitous as any form of mass transit.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2014-10-17 19:26:24 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Unless something is done along the lines of dramatically, MASSIVELY increasing their build costs as well as buffing their hp, damage and DD abilities, titans will likely continue their slide towards irrelevance and be as ubiquitous as any form of mass transit.



increasing their build costs, oh boy, try to build a titan your self now, not eaven the isk, but the amout of work to haul the minerals and build the parts to make things happen, is just crazy :D


Now i see, that buffing hp / dmg / DD abilities will bring nothing good, beacuse bitter vets will abuse the **** out of.

(i allways loved the idea of ratting in titan) but it should not come true. Because the vets will abuse the shi* out of it, i was hoping for small warfare, but if titans were able to smash sub caps, a huge behemot would stampeed in null sec ( witch will happen any way, as soon as we will be able to destroy stations) ...


But back to the point, i think that we can bring titans back to light, for now there were mostly used as a remote stargate, with the patch inbound we should find them another meaningful role, Like the giant space comand ship, buff the bacis scan res to at least 100, and give it bonus % for links per skill lvl.

and they will be cool to use them in any fleet that is not in hi sec/wh space.

people will use them and "risk them" (giggles) on grid to better links and an FC that is hard to be head shot off the grid \o/
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2014-10-17 19:33:00 UTC
If we all agree that we dn't like huge imortal killer things, way not to push them to be better support ships, that every one would like to have.

a super cool ship that can give 6 super cool links, DD things, can't be jamed and just can do stuff. and if you need, it can pull 6k+ dps against caps with out a sweat.


i think thats were Titas should go now, to be the ultimate, FC'ing boosting platform.


And hell, way not make them use DD aganst structures and eaven deal bonus damage.

if we can't se them head shothing ships, way don't let headshot structures Smile

And let them dock .... and supercarriers too What?
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2014-10-21 18:23:54 UTC
bump
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#30 - 2014-10-21 21:05:40 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
i think that would be cool to have this king on grid, as the ultimate comand ship, 7% pre lvl, with ratial bonuses.

Erebus skrimish and armour links etc.

they can fit links, but comand ships do it better, way not make titans the best, we have nerfer t3's allready.


Makes sense. Its not like Command ships have any way to defend themselves in normal ganglinks setups anyway.

but your doing it wrong.... if you say 20% per Level... you will get 10% so lets say 25% per level......
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#31 - 2014-10-21 23:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
I feel like I said this before somewhere Bunin case not here it is again.
Titans have grown obsolete simply because other ships can fill most of the roles a Titan does better and cheaper.
Command battle cruisers can boost a fleet better than any Titan minus the role specific boosts and only cost a few hundred million each not tens of billions.
Dreadnoughts can deal more damage at better ranges when sieged

So Titans need a unique role and a way to do it, and I feel like glorified taxi isn't the way to go

So my opinion is Titans should become the ONLY Ships to fit T2 capital guns this gives hem better application and versatility than dreads in some scenarios. Maybe a slight reduction in doomsday cool down per level but that seems like a bit much.

Then they need amplified ability to deal with tackle, because right now only a leviathan has a chance of hitting a sabre realistically, now I acknowledge these are fleet ships and shouldn't be able to become solo monstrositys so my idea is give them a drone bay no fighters or bombers just lights through geckos this gives them some ability to harm sub capa without becoming horrifyingly broken.

And finally they need an inertia fix so they don't bump 30kms when they land inside of a deployed can or depot especially since they will be taking gates now

God typos sorry peeps by I'm on a phone, nothin much to do

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#32 - 2014-10-21 23:47:08 UTC
Oh and to be guy who said let Titans dock, I'll keep it short
No they're way too large

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
ctrlc ctrlv
Comfortably Numb.
Brack Regen
#33 - 2014-10-22 00:06:38 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:

So they will deal normal damage to sub caps and, to be good on grid dps platform again, Supers and caps will be mostly on local use, so let's make them usful .... like the awsome buff to mother ships.

Now it's time to Bring Titans back to been Giant Space Dic* insted of Giant Space Vagin*s ....



So ironic from a CFC member....Your coalition was the main reason that titans become Bridging haulers.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-10-22 08:19:42 UTC
xttz wrote:
Before you read my post, please understand that:
1) I've flown at least one Titan since 2007
2) I own multiple supercaps
3) I've personally built scores of supercaps for my alliance over the years

Titan weapons should not be buffed in this way

EVE does not need an I-win button, and that's precisely what Dominion Titans were. They acted as an apex force only beatable with more of the same, and with the upcoming jump changes that issue would only be exacerbated. Every ship class in EVE needs a weakness and with their high durability, Titans that are effective against battleships would counter everything able to damage them.

Do Titans need a balancing pass? Yes, absolutely. More importantly, they need a well-defined role. The idea of damage-dealer should be reconsidered in favour of ideas that support fleets. We already have a foundation for this with the strong fleet bonuses, jump portal and clone vat bay. Let's build on these and make Titans something every large fleet would find useful, but at the same time not a force solely in themselves.

If you want Titans to be exciting and useful, come up with a role more interesting than 'shoots everything'.


Maybe make new titan-sized vessels, and split the roles between them; give the current titans more of a support role, and while both can bridge, the current ones have bigger bays and better bonuses for links and such, but get their combat stats nerfed somewhat. The new titans would also be able to bridge, but would have better offensive and defensive capabilities but very limited or no fleet hangars and no fleet bonuses.
Gaan Cathal
Angry Mustellid
#35 - 2014-10-22 11:53:24 UTC
I don't think that making them worse than Command Ships at boosting is actually necessary - certainly making them better, but still worse, means you might as well not change them at all. Groups who can afford Titans can afford Command Ships, and they will use the best boosters available. And when/if CCP manage to do something about off-grid boosting, Command Ships will obviously be a less pricey deployment.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#36 - 2014-10-22 11:56:17 UTC
I'm liking the idea of making them into some type of flagship booster finding a point that would make them worth being on grid for the role but not too strong wouldn't be ready thoughWhat?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lancastor Dex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-10-22 12:52:12 UTC
Like the ideas bouncing around. Some say combat, some say support. How about both? However...

Instead having both role at once, make ppl chose what to do with their titan.

1. Lets say u want a giant combat space **** - Put on a doomsday (or some kind of special mod) which besides it's obvious purpose would give ONLY you some combat bonuses (not tracking :) ) at the cost of reduced HP\resists and inability to move.

2. The other option would be to use it as a very strong fleet booster. Again via some kind of hi-slot siege module which would upon activation give extra fleet boosts but would render titan's weapons inactive and titan itself immobile.

Just a thought...
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#38 - 2014-10-22 13:41:37 UTC
Nerf them into oblivian!

-70% HP
Give them only 2 subsystem options >
Option 1: damage - 70% hp
Option 2: +70% HP acting as a fixed deployable stargate module that can repair and keep itselve up with manual operators, with something that involves lots of clicking!



Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-10-22 13:53:17 UTC
I fail to see why making titans effective should come at the expense of making command ships second rate. Instead, if you really want to make them support/link ships, why not give them their own set of unique ganglinks, or increase their inherent command bonuses?

Sure, titans are going to be in a spot where they might not be considered to be all that value, with the jump changes coming up, but they can still give significant unique bonuses, like HP, or sig radius, they can still inflict significant damage to structures and other capitals, and they can still doomsday. If they are at a weak point, I think that's a good thing, because it means the rest of content in regards to sov can be rebalanced to a point where it works, then titans can be adjusted into a role that works with that, whether it is in the form of some mobile unchained dreadnaught, or some sort of heavy field support role.
Previous page12