These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

People shooting renting corps in null. ( )

First post
Author
Solecist Project
#61 - 2014-10-16 23:17:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
ISD Ezwal wrote:
And just one other thing: This thread has been moved to Corporation, Alliance & Organization Discussions.
Oh al right, al right...keep calm....sheeezz...

I forgot one tiny little thing: By moving the thread to CAOD I made it impossible for the OP to post without breaking the forum rules.
Therefore, thread moved back to GD.

Wow ... you removed my "forum moderation discussion" in the initial post without actually reading it? ^_^


Thank you for moving it back again and unlocking too! *hugs* (:

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#62 - 2014-10-16 23:23:42 UTC
Reading is a core CCL skill.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2014-10-16 23:44:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Wishfull thinking that ignores the past.

The past:

Quote:
Expected consequences

Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space
In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals
Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec
Coalitions will be marginally less stable
Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places)


That was 3 and a half years ago. How many times do we (as a game community) have to experience history repeat itself till we realize that a certain way of thinking does not work?


This is really funny, because it's the same [adjective] guy making similar changes for the same reasons.

In reality, Nullsec coalitions change their space a little bit (Like PL putting their space under some alternative management...but it's still their renter space), and logistics and movement gets harder for everyone. Now, the coalitions will be even LESS inclined to fight each other, because they would need to move their assets so far from their home that it leaves them open to attack.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#64 - 2014-10-17 00:07:22 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Wishfull thinking that ignores the past.

The past:

Quote:
Expected consequences

Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space
In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals
Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec
Coalitions will be marginally less stable
Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places)


That was 3 and a half years ago. How many times do we (as a game community) have to experience history repeat itself till we realize that a certain way of thinking does not work?


This is really funny, because it's the same [adjective] guy making similar changes for the same reasons.

In reality, Nullsec coalitions change their space a little bit (Like PL putting their space under some alternative management...but it's still their renter space), and logistics and movement gets harder for everyone. Now, the coalitions will be even LESS inclined to fight each other, because they would need to move their assets so far from their home that it leaves them open to attack.

Could you enlighten me as to the organizational relationship between xxDeath and PL? Am legit curious.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#65 - 2014-10-17 00:18:40 UTC
Seems most people are either PVP or PVE.
Attitudes most toxic come from those definitely one or the other. PVP purists scorn the renters with their aims, never imagining that stacks of ratting/exploration isk goes into interesting production and manufacture. Pure ratters call the ratter killers names and imply they are bullies or evil or whatevs.
I have a toon that shoots red crosses as much as i can stand that, maxed for mining as well because of the interest value. It sometimes pleases me to make boosters, or t2 something. Access to moon and wormhole stuff accelerates the hell out of that.
Then it's on to the cloaky dude who runs lonely intense ops that can last weeks. Wormholes have become great for moving vast distances and appearing like a magic plague from nowhere. Prized are the ones that open into some very quiet pipe that only has hauler and ratter traffic.
These threads sound like banter between opposing crowds. There has to be way more pvp pilots who have an interest in the non-combat side of the game and therefore a more complex approach than just hurr they are stoopat.
Damn right i'm watching how Phoebe will change things, the big space politics is a bore and subject to what ccp imposes.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Jess Tanner
Bangworks Systems Inc.
#66 - 2014-10-17 00:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jess Tanner
Solecist Project
#67 - 2014-10-17 08:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Aaaand a whole page of off-topic opinion bullshit ...
... including Jenn's bait and hate post on the former page.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#68 - 2014-10-17 08:39:01 UTC
Truth is I like shooting fish in the barrel so ... I'm evil, sue me. P
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#69 - 2014-10-17 10:02:35 UTC
OK TLDR Some of the people shooting renters are renters themselves and no matter how much renters lose it means nothing to the map.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#70 - 2014-10-17 10:28:10 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
the former renters will be actively engaging in fighting over territory.

WAT?
Most renters don't even fight to save their buddies ratting carrier. (yes, some do, but that's rare)
It's not just renters though. Most goon ratting carriers I shot died alone too. Sometimes they ping for a fleet to save the carrier, but since they won't engage unless they outnumber you 5:1 it usually takes them too long.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#71 - 2014-10-17 10:37:37 UTC
Things will be more complicated thats for sure. If the alliance will be bigger, than the level of complication will be bigger.

If more things gets complicated, someones foot will slip, that will be the first step to solving the blue doughnut issue.
Solecist Project
#72 - 2014-10-17 10:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
I consider joining Pasta if the CEO of Love Squad approves ...
... or will try to get my corp into it.

Unless Mail- and Contact-APIKeys are required.
Not giving these away for free. :p
That'd be nuts. lol


They seem qualified, from what I have gathered .....
... with bigger impact than is actually known.

Very interesting.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2014-10-17 14:39:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Could you enlighten me as to the organizational relationship between xxDeath and PL? Am legit curious.


https://eveskunk.com/e/343706457

Edit: So the blue doughnut is only getting bigger because of the logistical changes and maintaining rental territory. :CCP:'ed yet again.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#74 - 2014-10-17 14:45:58 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Ilaister wrote:

Phoebe will make rental empires defunct though no?


It very well may.



Wishfull thinking that ignores the past.

Ehhh, idk. Pandemic Legion already ceded a region or three of their rental empire in preperation for Phoebe, so....


Did you actually understand what you're reading there? PL is entrenching it's renting program, not getting rid of it.

As those of us who aren't wishful thinkers who have ignored 11 years of EVE history predicted lol.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#75 - 2014-10-17 14:47:08 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Could you enlighten me as to the organizational relationship between xxDeath and PL? Am legit curious.


https://eveskunk.com/e/343706457

Edit: So the blue doughnut is only getting bigger because of the logistical changes and maintaining rental territory. :CCP:'ed yet again.


Worse, it is (as predicted) starting the shift from a blue donut to a blue brick. Because in game as it is in real life, some people are constitutionally unable to learn from the past.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-10-17 14:53:14 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Could you enlighten me as to the organizational relationship between xxDeath and PL? Am legit curious.


https://eveskunk.com/e/343706457

Edit: So the blue doughnut is only getting bigger because of the logistical changes and maintaining rental territory. :CCP:'ed yet again.

Looks to me like they're ceding renter space to another group in exchange for security/stability. Sure it isn't ideal, but where before you had 1 rental empire, now you have 2. And this is before the implementation of any changes in phoebe.
Miles Parabellum
Core Collapse Inc
#77 - 2014-10-17 15:26:35 UTC
Personally, I don't see the problem.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#78 - 2014-10-17 15:28:32 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Could you enlighten me as to the organizational relationship between xxDeath and PL? Am legit curious.


https://eveskunk.com/e/343706457

Edit: So the blue doughnut is only getting bigger because of the logistical changes and maintaining rental territory. :CCP:'ed yet again.

Looks to me like they're ceding renter space to another group in exchange for security/stability. Sure it isn't ideal, but where before you had 1 rental empire, now you have 2. And this is before the implementation of any changes in phoebe.


The isk ends up in the same pockets. CCP isn't making a change to spawn more rental empire, their goal is more conflict. With the exception of evicting smaller groups from regions closer to null sec, this goal has and will fail.

What PL and XXDeath are doing are an example of something I've been saying for a long time about CCPs changes and human nature: Even in a video game, people don't fight over low value things they can just buy or negotiate for.. PL is making a deal to keep some income form space they don't need and can't use rather than "let smaller groups fight over it" like CCP somehow thought would happen.

Even when CCP announces it's other changes to null sec later, it won't change anything, because the underlying cause of the observed behavior here is human nature as it involves low value items (most of null is of low value thanks to the anom nerf and other factors), not purely game mechanics. And yes , some of us have been telling CCP this for years but it all falls on deaf ears.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2014-10-17 15:28:49 UTC
So instead of being neutral to XxDeath, they are now business partners in the existing b0t rental program, as all of those emails show, it's a simple transfer and standings/rights are all remaining the same.

Yep, this change is completely going to change up nullsec.

QuestionQuestionQuestion
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#80 - 2014-10-17 15:38:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
So instead of being neutral to XxDeath, they are now business partners in the existing b0t rental program, as all of those emails show, it's a simple transfer and standings/rights are all remaining the same.

Yep, this change is completely going to change up nullsec.

QuestionQuestionQuestion


History repeating itself.
2009 for cripes sake wrote:

So anyway, here we are today. Nullsec is largely the domain of large, 2-3000 member PvP alliances, grouped up into inevitable coalitions and engaged in not-quite-impossibly large wars. Costs are mosty covered at the alliance level by a combination of old money and high-value moon minerals. The latter continue to rise in price due to ever-increasing demand from invention, and the after-effects of last year's exploit-related burp invalidating the calculations used to construct the Alchemy pressure-release valve. Most of the space that's up for grabs is owned by a clone army of ideologically-distinct but functionally-similar alliances, making the entire political landscape depressingly homogeneous. The state of the military art is not much better - sub-capital fleets are wheeled out for cyno-jammer take-downs and then packed away before they can fall victim to multiple doomsdays, leaving huge capital fleets to park themselves in front of a never-ending procession of starbases. And the smaller groups, the newer organizations hoping to gain a foothold in the Great Game, are left begging for crumbs around the edges. Who's going to let security-risk nobodies into their back yard when they'll never be able to compete pay as much as a single dysprosium moon?

We're not convinced that this is the best, most interesting, most dynamic and most emergence-friendly state of being for nullsec, so we're going to make some changes.


Those changes were Dominion, which led to the 'blue donut'. The exact OPPOSITE of what they wanted to happen.

Just like now...Just like once neutral PL and XXDeath being not neutral... How many people who were soooo tired of shooting POSes would love to have pre-Dominion SOV back. I wonder if any of them can remember how happy they were that they didn't have to grind POSes any more??? lol