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How does targeting someone prevent cloak?

First post
Author
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#41 - 2014-10-13 03:34:55 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Hades Dark wrote:
So why and how does targeting someone prevent cloak? Really I do not understand this concept at all. A targeting system pinpoints a mass using visual, radar, sonar. It no way sends anything that disturbs any equipment but yet when your targeted in EVE you can't use cloak due to what?
Also I should be able to cloak regardless if there is someone tracking me or not because unless something is preventing me from using that module then really how can they?


If you lock something, your computer already knows exactly where that ship is and that ship engaging it's cloak can fool the targeting mechanisms anymore.

If the cloak gets up before you can target someone, then your ship's computers get confused to where exactly that ship is and you won't get a lock.

Done and done. Cool


Except you are prevented from cloaking as soon as someone BEGINS to target you. Not after they lock you.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#42 - 2014-10-13 04:00:05 UTC
I'm pretty sure its because of the Radiating Type-A12 GammaDelaZetaB C-Dion Phase-Waves that emanate from all Gen4.7+ JethroTull-Class Tactical Targeting Apparatus Mechanisms that our ships are outfitted with, as they interfere with the BobRossian Pan-Kaleidoscopic Elmo-Refractions that are necessary to achieve cloak. Naturally.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#43 - 2014-10-13 05:54:58 UTC
I'm pretty sure it works like something like this:

if (targeted == true || cloakReactivationDelay > 0) sendCloakFailMessage();
else doCloak();



Or are you looking for a physics explanation for a phenomenon in game which does not exist in the real physical world?
Nevil Oscillator
#44 - 2014-10-13 06:10:48 UTC
Trevor Dalech wrote:


Or are you looking for a physics explanation for a phenomenon in game which does not exist in the real physical world?



Yes, that is what I think the OP was asking for, I don't recall any indication that he was referring to an unspecified source code.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#45 - 2014-10-13 13:25:44 UTC
Maintaining a lock requires a high energy particle beam to scan and track the target. This beam is of sufficient amplitude and composition as to disrupt the quantum sheathing that the cloak must generated evenly around the ship in order to render it invisible.

It is all very logical.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite

Nevil Oscillator
#46 - 2014-10-13 13:33:17 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:


It is all very logical.


I bet you can't tell me if the explanation or the code was written first.
Arla Sarain
#47 - 2014-10-13 16:32:41 UTC
Hades Dark wrote:
So why and how does targeting someone prevent cloak? Really I do not understand this concept at all. A targeting system pinpoints a mass using visual, radar, sonar. It no way sends anything that disturbs any equipment but yet when your targeted in EVE you can't use cloak due to what?
Also I should be able to cloak regardless if there is someone tracking me or not because unless something is preventing me from using that module then really how can they?

I don't think the principle hinges on visual detection as much as you make it sound like.

I think the purpose of cloak is to prevent you from being locked by making enemy sensors think you are not there. But once you get locked it would pointless to try that because the location of the mass has already been pinpointed. And even if you did various logical prediction procedures could have been carried out in order to try and locate the mass again.
Heather Austrene
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2014-10-14 02:58:37 UTC
Trying to expect this thing to work according to science is sort of funny, when is Eve is a universe where there is no gravity, friction in space, and all kinds of other blatant disregard of Newton. I suppose the servers either can't handle newtonian mechanics, or they think it would make the gameplay too difficult. So just assume it is an alternate universe with different laws of physics and learn to cope with them.
Curious Onlooker
LE YOLO LE SWAG LE 9GAG YOLOSWAG SWAGGER CORP YOLO
#49 - 2014-10-14 03:08:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Hades Dark wrote:
So why and how does targeting someone prevent cloak? Really I do not understand this concept at all. A targeting system pinpoints a mass using visual, radar, sonar. It no way sends anything that disturbs any equipment but yet when your targeted in EVE you can't use cloak due to what?
Also I should be able to cloak regardless if there is someone tracking me or not because unless something is preventing me from using that module then really how can they?


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


The cloaking device does not make your ship truly invisible, it simply masks most details about your ship and location to nearby and far away capsuleers. Once another ship locks onto you with their targeting mechanisms, their ship computers are keeping detailed information on your ship (heading, velocity, and other pertinent information), and so it is very reasonable to believe that should you try to cloak, it would be ineffective as the focused targetting system would know exactly where to look for you, and so your cloak wouldn't hide you. It is also reasonable that any ship targetting you would broadcast your position to other ships nearby, so that they too could instantly discern your position. In a day and age as far advanced as the eve universe is, instantaneous 3D coordinate relaying would be old technology.

As for why the cloak doesn't actually activate, that's a simple matter of game mechanics. Allowing your to activate your cloak with no effect would be far too confusing for many players, would not be of meaningful benefit to the game, and would further complicate things if the enemy lost their lost on you. Would the cloak then conceal your ship, preventing you from warping off, or would you then need to disable it, providing that you realized you werent truly cloaked all along?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-10-14 21:37:14 UTC
Hades Dark wrote:
So why and how does targeting someone prevent cloak? Really I do not understand this concept at all. A targeting system pinpoints a mass using visual, radar, sonar. It no way sends anything that disturbs any equipment but yet when your targeted in EVE you can't use cloak due to what?
Also I should be able to cloak regardless if there is someone tracking me or not because unless something is preventing me from using that module then really how can they?


Let me respond.

Why with the size of the ships we fly around, it takes us till we are closer then 2 km before we suddenly spot that cloaked ship of our bow.

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Nevil Oscillator
#51 - 2014-10-14 21:49:26 UTC
J'Poll wrote:



Why with the size of the ships we fly around, it takes us till we are closer then 2 km before we suddenly spot that cloaked ship of our bow.


Because they are cloaked ?
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-10-14 22:31:56 UTC
Simple logic.

Because the cloaking module activates, but enemy ship sensor has already identified your location, and acquired your signature. Masking signature with cloaking device becomes unfavorable, because enemy computer will detect the emission phase shift and readjust.

Because *KING targeting laser lights your spaceship up. You shine and glow and reflect/absorb that beam, which gives out your location.

If you could first break enemy's lock with counter emissions, cloaking may have some positive effect. Unless you can warp cloaked, enemy will still remember your coordinates and locate your ship with close contact bump.


This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Brylan Grey
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-10-15 06:14:20 UTC
I would imagine locking to cause more than just guns and modules to follow the target. Instead, it would be more like projecting some sort of emission onto the target that interferes with warp and allows for superior tracking of targets in space. This would go along the lines of targeting not actually being based on visual acquire meant of the target but rather some sort of signature.

Example, instead if having my computer follow a ship visually, emote something that is easy for me to follow onto the ship. Now suppose a side effect of this radiation, chemical, whatever, is that it interferes with cloaking the ship.
Lucrii Dei
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2014-10-15 10:25:31 UTC
It prevents cloaking because it must.

As an example let's take your logic and pretend you need a new module that 'damps' cloaks. In a PVP engagement with a covert ship in which the aggressor does not have said module fitted, the covert ship would simply be able to cloak up and warp off as soon as the pilot realizes the fight isn't going quite as planned "because targeting shouldn't prevent cloak".

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Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#55 - 2014-10-15 18:26:42 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
It's a Jovian Miracle.



This.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#56 - 2014-10-16 12:28:33 UTC
TL;DR def Jovians.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#57 - 2014-10-16 21:50:59 UTC
Right, that cleaned it up a bit. Where was I, oh yes:

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Kelaian Stareine
Regime Change Artists
#58 - 2014-10-16 22:47:47 UTC
Targeting definitely should prevent cloaking.


Cloaking has a ton of advantages and my lifestyle is 100% dedicated to cloaky camping. The downside of being locked is so you cant coward out of a fight if something goes wrong. once you get decloaked and locked/pointed you are committed. If locking didn't prevent cloaking there would be no reason to ever fly anything else.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#59 - 2014-10-17 11:46:32 UTC
The prototype of an advanced cloaking mechanism was one of the last major technological breakthroughs to come out of Crielere Labs. Although it does work it is not really a finished product and has some serious drawbacks, most notably the fact that the module creates high sensor disruption while fitted and can not operate unless at minimum velocity.

So any type of focussed electronics such as targeting systems mess with it's highly unstable operation.

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