Science & Industry

First off "Your opinion matters!"pfft yeah, please don't insult us any further.

Secondly I have heard some people say "if you're not having the same or more profit margin you are doing it wrong" okey then please tell me what I am doing wrong.

I do tech 2 manufacturing in highsec and my profit is about 50-60% less then what it was before.

I'll give my opinion even if I know it's a complete waste of time and the trolls will be here rolling in their own feces in a heartbeat.

After indy changes buyers generally pay more, manufacturers make significantly less and the market is ridiculously oversupplied.

tl;dr It's ****...

Edit: Actually after looking at the market for the last few weeks I would say it is closer to 65-75% less.

Production and invention:

- Most T1 items are sold from loot drops below the production price.

- The complexity of T2 invention and production process is staggering. To calculate the profitability of each module I had to create 7 excel files with each 10-20 sheets. I won't describe how it works and what is taken into account in the calculations since it would take pages and I would loose 95% of the readers before the end.

My GF studied economics at university and is supposed to be an excel pro, when she saw my excel sheets she told me the following after one or two minute jaw dropping:
You are inhumanely crazy, you're multiplying vlookups with vlookups from webdata data from different sheets and files and multiplying this with data from something that looks more like a 3D table and ... OMG!

A short list of what you need to calculate the benefit/ hour of a T2 item:
BPO cost, BPC copy time, BPC copy taxes, invention taxes, decryptor cost, named T1 items, invention time, decryptor ME modifier, decryptor PE, decryptor max run modifier, system indexes, base item prices, production time, material/component/item costs, sales taxes, broker fees, etc.

And you still have to check the market for sudden price drops

- The few market API developpers are struggeling with both complexity and the monthly static data updates (static lolz). EVE IPH Industry Calculator is the only good one I know and is currently not working because of the static data updates. I quote Zifrian "The hits keep on coming huh? "

- The production costs and sell prices showed in the industrial window are on average 10% off the real prices in the trade hubs. The average benefit is around 5%. The production/sell prices don't take into account the BPC copy costs/taxes, data core costs, invention taxes, invention chance, decryptor costs, sales taxes, broker fees, etc.
Result: Very few people in this game know the real production costs. Second result : Half the T2 items are sold at loss.

- Two third of the production items (T1 and T2) have no value in game and are barely or not sold.

- Production times on 'profitable' T2 items are often too long (e.g. medium T2 rigs 10 copy = 2.5 days)

- Since the EVE market is fairly small compared to the real world market the prices fluctuate so fast that by the time you sell the item it's sometimes worth less that the components you bought.

- The good thing about production/invention is that it's one of the few non repetitive activities of this game, well ... you have to sell the items.

- If you want to sell your items you need to actively modify the sell prices, which is 'again' a super repetitive activity. Why do I have to pay broker fees if I need to take care of the sales myself?

- As a result of the complexity of production especially invention only a minority of players realy know what they are doing.

- Half of the T2 item production is an isk sink and it's very well hidden. Nice job CCP!

The EVE-online community likes this game more than the average monster bashing RPG because they're looking for something more complex which makes it more interesting, but this is overkill.

If you want to involve more players into invention you're going to have to simplify the whole concept quite a bit. The competitivity will increase and you'll spread the isks over a larger amount of players.

I'm convinced that many will loose interrest in production and invention again after a few months when they will notice that you can't just build and sell with profit easily.

In the end the easiest way to make isk in this game is to join a nulsec corp and grind NPC's in belts or plexes, or even better sell plex you bought with real money.

The inventments in skill time (monthly fee or isk cost) and investments in items such as BPO's and skills are much higher than the cost of plex you can buy of the website and sell ingame. ISK for plex will always be the best investment.

Well I guess our creator did the calculations better than any EVE citizen.

The root of all evil
The primary reason for all the problems in production and invention is the introduction of PLEX in the game. CCP's (actually the investors of CCP) biggest nightmare is that players would be able to replace the monthly subscription with PLEX, which they buy in-game payed with isk they earn in-game. Therefore production/invention can and will never be profitable with this system. Furthermore the less profitable any acivity is in game the more PLEX they can sell out of game. Everything in the real world, even deep into your preferred game is messed up by people with lots of money who have an insatiable need for more money. Grind on this one for a moment.

Eris Lassa, CEO of Intersideralis

Why are there increasing production costs if you run your jobs at a POS?

Why are there any isk/hour costs at all. You'd imagine it is covered by the fact that your POS fuel covers the PG/CPU needed to run whatever you have anchored and online at your tower.

Remove that cost entirely from POS jobs. Give incentive to have production POS'es and make them worthwhile.

I was paying factory fees in my wormhole of all places.....