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Gevlon's Second Doozie

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#241 - 2014-10-16 17:39:10 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
BuckStrider wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Solutions;

1) Remove Sov

OR

2) Make Hisec Claimable


James 315 has already claimed all of Hisec. You'll have to think of something else


So how come mining and hauling without permits isnt a Concordable offense yet?

those donuts aren't going to eat themselves
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#242 - 2014-10-16 17:42:12 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
The more people say it the more I like the idea of completely removing sov



I'll disagree. Removing sov would have to be one of many fixes. TBH the best fix, imo, is moving things to active income and not passive. Killing sov only makes the alliance richer as they now have no bills to pay. Space goes back to be a few great systems and lots of ****** ones. And yea you'd lose JB, and Cyno beacons, but also no outpost and other things. Sov removal would be a decent small tweek, not a fix.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#243 - 2014-10-16 17:43:12 UTC
Well this thread went off in a few unintended directions.

Of note, Gevlon's post about corrupt NPC leaders wanting to turn Eve into a theme park for their own financial gain has been supplemented by an EN24 Article by Seraph IX Basarab commenting that the coalitions are tacitly supporting botting and that CSM members can be expected to break the NDA in support of their bloc leaders. Overall these are some very intense accusations and show strong dissatisfaction with how the bloc leaders are handling our game. And again, I sympathize strongly with both of these authors.

Further, TMC parties are now pushing harder for greater wealth creation in smaller areas. Basically, the Goons started out with pushing for occupancy sov because Goons and Brave are the only two parties that can effectively lock down a region by force of sheer numbers with an occupancy sov mechanic. So along this thinking, Goons, if forced to limit themselves to a smaller geographical area with the coming jump changes seem to want to write the game so they can just stay in Deklein with no risk of every being pushed out, and if they are stuck there in Deklein they want Deklein alone to be able to produce enough wealth for them to be able to afford all the Titans they could ever want (or PLEXes for Mittens RMT goals if Gevlon's accusations of RMT by bloc leaders is to be given credence).

Overall, you can TOTALLY see how the big players are pushing to manipulate the game to their personal interests and are going so far as to use the CSM to do it. I mean how did that Gorski guy ever make CSM? There's an example of a morally bankrupt halfwit who has no purpose in life other than to break the NDA.
Prince Kobol
#244 - 2014-10-16 17:44:25 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
The more people say it the more I like the idea of completely removing sov



I'll disagree. Removing sov would have to be one of many fixes. TBH the best fix, imo, is moving things to active income and not passive. Killing sov only makes the alliance richer as they now have no bills to pay. Space goes back to be a few great systems and lots of ****** ones. And yea you'd lose JB, and Cyno beacons, but also no outpost and other things. Sov removal would be a decent small tweek, not a fix.



Oh I agree it would have to part of many changes but at the heart would be the removal of all Sov
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#245 - 2014-10-16 17:45:12 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Well this thread went off in a few unintended directions.

Of note, Gevlon's post about corrupt NPC leaders wanting to turn Eve into a theme park for their own financial gain has been supplemented by an EN24 Article by Seraph IX Basarab commenting that the coalitions are tacitly supporting botting and that CSM members can be expected to break the NDA in support of their bloc leaders. Overall these are some very intense accusations and show strong dissatisfaction with how the bloc leaders are handling our game. And again, I sympathize strongly with both of these authors.

Further, TMC parties are now pushing harder for greater wealth creation in smaller areas. Basically, the Goons started out with pushing for occupancy sov because Goons and Brave are the only two parties that can effectively lock down a region by force of sheer numbers with an occupancy sov mechanic. So along this thinking, Goons, if forced to limit themselves to a smaller geographical area with the coming jump changes seem to want to write the game so they can just stay in Deklein with no risk of every being pushed out, and if they are stuck there in Deklein they want Deklein alone to be able to produce enough wealth for them to be able to afford all the Titans they could ever want (or PLEXes for Mittens RMT goals if Gevlon's accusations of RMT by bloc leaders is to be given credence).

Overall, you can TOTALLY see how the big players are pushing to manipulate the game to their personal interests and are going so far as to use the CSM to do it. I mean how did that Gorski guy ever make CSM? There's an example of a morally bankrupt halfwit who has no purpose in life other than to break the NDA.



Nature abhors a vacuum, therefore remove one Dinsdale, watch another spawn from complete thin air.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#246 - 2014-10-16 17:47:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Except that actually makes your import route LONGER, not shorter. You personally might jump less, but the Moon Goo actually takes a longer route than direct importing from your nearest source. All faction ships can also be found in low without ever having to touch high. And in the case of Empire factions are vastly cheaper from FW sources.

Of course this requires leveraging an entire meta shift rather than simply running with the existing meta.


But it is just more efficient to run it as a hub-and-spoke system. The ice miners, moon miners, mission runners all take there stuff to some place like Jita, and nullsec people can just do the one trip to Jita and get Amarr ice, and Gallente and Minmatar FW goods.

Point-to-point distribution systems look great at first glance. But they can turn into a massive headache very quickly in terms of scheduling and cargo utilization.

For example, something like Amarr fuel blocks might justify a frequent regular route to Amarr. But something like faction ships have a far less frequent demand, like only a big demand if a fleet of them gets destroyed. Or faction ammo, or specialty construction components may have a very regular demand, but since they take such little space it would be inefficient ship regularly, as fuel costs are based on distance traveled and not m3 of cargo.

So you end up with schedules that are like; Amarr every day, Gallente FW lowsec Tueday and Friday, Minmatar FW lowsec every other Thursday or twice a day after a big fleet loss, transship moongoo from NPC Delve every Monday, and so on.


Or you can just do a daily run to Jita, get everything you need, and balance out the load based on what is in the biggest demand on that particular day. It also requires far less scouts, cynos, and fuel caching.
Prince Kobol
#247 - 2014-10-16 17:47:59 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
. So along this thinking, Goons, if forced to limit themselves to a smaller geographical area with the coming jump changes seem to want to write the game so they can just stay in Deklein with no risk of every being pushed out, and if they are stuck there in Deklein they want Deklein alone to be able to produce enough wealth for them to be able to afford all the Titans they could ever want (or PLEXes for Mittens RMT goals if Gevlon's accusations of RMT by bloc leaders is to be given credence).



To be fair to the alliance leaders whilst RMT is rampant in Eve, just check out failheap and reddit, it is unfair to directly point the finger at people like Kittens.

Just don't ask for roses in alliance chat if you are part of a null sec alliance as some people might get angry at you Blink
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#248 - 2014-10-16 17:54:50 UTC
Quote:
Of note, Gevlon's post about corrupt NPC leaders wanting to turn Eve into a theme park for their own financial gain has been supplemented by an EN24 Article by Seraph IX Basarab commenting that the coalitions are tacitly supporting botting and that CSM members can be expected to break the NDA in support of their bloc leaders. Overall these are some very intense accusations and show strong dissatisfaction with how the bloc leaders are handling our game. And again, I sympathize strongly with both of these authors.


i think we need to remember that just because someone's name is in a byline doesn't mean their opinion is of any worth

Quote:
Further, TMC parties are now pushing harder for greater wealth creation in smaller areas. Basically, the Goons started out with pushing for occupancy sov because Goons and Brave are the only two parties that can effectively lock down a region by force of sheer numbers with an occupancy sov mechanic. So along this thinking,

this thinking is fallacious
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#249 - 2014-10-16 17:57:24 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
. So along this thinking, Goons, if forced to limit themselves to a smaller geographical area with the coming jump changes seem to want to write the game so they can just stay in Deklein with no risk of every being pushed out, and if they are stuck there in Deklein they want Deklein alone to be able to produce enough wealth for them to be able to afford all the Titans they could ever want (or PLEXes for Mittens RMT goals if Gevlon's accusations of RMT by bloc leaders is to be given credence).



To be fair to the alliance leaders whilst RMT is rampant in Eve, just check out failheap and reddit, it is unfair to directly point the finger at people like Kittens.

Just don't ask for roses in alliance chat if you are part of a null sec alliance as some people might get angry at you Blink


Well, I didn't specifically accuse Mittens of RMT, Gevlon did. And even Gevlon's accusations are tongue in cheek and he'll often put in the word 'possibly' in front of an accusation just to be sure people know he doesn't have the info to specifically accuse Mittens or anyone else. What Gevlon and I and everybody does know is that Mittens lives off his website and his website includes a 'click for PLEX' link on it. While not going so far as to say anything illegal is going on, Mittens is just the starkest example of of a bloc leader who is very obviously benefitting from Eve and has very strong vested interests in Eve turning out in a way that is advantageous to him. As a professional Eve player, he is just a clear example of motivations that are likely driving a number of Eve parties.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#250 - 2014-10-16 18:08:03 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
Who's this Gevlon dude everyone's talking about?


Some guy with an internet connection and a fetish for numbers.
Prince Kobol
#251 - 2014-10-16 18:11:18 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
. So along this thinking, Goons, if forced to limit themselves to a smaller geographical area with the coming jump changes seem to want to write the game so they can just stay in Deklein with no risk of every being pushed out, and if they are stuck there in Deklein they want Deklein alone to be able to produce enough wealth for them to be able to afford all the Titans they could ever want (or PLEXes for Mittens RMT goals if Gevlon's accusations of RMT by bloc leaders is to be given credence).



To be fair to the alliance leaders whilst RMT is rampant in Eve, just check out failheap and reddit, it is unfair to directly point the finger at people like Kittens.

Just don't ask for roses in alliance chat if you are part of a null sec alliance as some people might get angry at you Blink


Well, I didn't specifically accuse Mittens of RMT, Gevlon did. And even Gevlon's accusations are tongue in cheek and he'll often put in the word 'possibly' in front of an accusation just to be sure people know he doesn't have the info to specifically accuse Mittens or anyone else. What Gevlon and I and everybody does know is that Mittens lives off his website and his website includes a 'click for PLEX' link on it. While not going so far as to say anything illegal is going on, Mittens is just the starkest example of of a bloc leader who is very obviously benefitting from Eve and has very strong vested interests in Eve turning out in a way that is advantageous to him. As a professional Eve player, he is just a clear example of motivations that are likely driving a number of Eve parties.


Again to be fair to Kittens it makes what happens in Eve does not effect his website.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#252 - 2014-10-16 18:13:53 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Again to be fair to Kittens it makes what happens in Eve does not effect his website.


Au contraire, what happens in Eve does affect his website and his business.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#253 - 2014-10-16 18:18:44 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
(or PLEXes for Mittens RMT goals if Gevlon's accusations of RMT by bloc leaders is to be given credence).



He isn't to be given any credence. Any more than the old adage of a stopped clock being right twice a day.

If you want advice on how to get the most out of station trading, or min/max'ing mining missions, Gevlon is exactly the type of numbers nerd to go to for that sort of things.

When it comes to human interaction, complex organization, motivations and fun, not only is he the last person to listen to, but he has admitted to being a rather anti-social type with a very low opinion of other people and a strong bias against certain groups. He makes wild accusation with no real proof, other than numbers that he'll repeatedly twist until they say what his bias demands.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#254 - 2014-10-16 18:18:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
baltec1 wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
The more people say it the more I like the idea of completely removing sov


It wont fix the issues with null.




Perhaps it won't.

But attempts to fix it apparently did not improve it. You see the wording you use "fix null" in saying addressing why a solution would not work you displayed exactly what the problem is.

And think of all of the resources that could be spent elsewhere in the game if CCP washed their hands of Nullsec SOV, dropped the mechanics and best of all, could no longer be blamed for what happens?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#255 - 2014-10-16 18:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Again to be fair to Kittens it makes what happens in Eve does not effect his website.


Au contraire, what happens in Eve does affect his website and his business.


As previously stated, EVE will survive without TMC, the reverse, not so likely. There's a good reason people constantly spam GD and their forum signatures here, with links to there.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#256 - 2014-10-16 18:28:44 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
(or PLEXes for Mittens RMT goals if Gevlon's accusations of RMT by bloc leaders is to be given credence).



He isn't to be given any credence. Any more than the old adage of a stopped clock being right twice a day.

If you want advice on how to get the most out of station trading, or min/max'ing mining missions, Gevlon is exactly the type of numbers nerd to go to for that sort of things.

When it comes to human interaction, complex organization, motivations and fun, not only is he the last person to listen to, but he has admitted to being a rather anti-social type with a very low opinion of other people and a strong bias against certain groups. He makes wild accusation with no real proof, other than numbers that he'll repeatedly twist until they say what his bias demands.



Meh, this comment is about Gevlon, which is not what the thread is addressing. It's Gevlon's idea, that self-interested Eve players benefit from turning Eve into a theme park, that is at issue here.

Yes, you're a Goon. We can assume you hate Gevlon. Irrelevant.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#257 - 2014-10-16 18:32:50 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Quote:
Of note, Gevlon's post about corrupt NPC leaders wanting to turn Eve into a theme park for their own financial gain has been supplemented by an EN24 Article by Seraph IX Basarab commenting that the coalitions are tacitly supporting botting and that CSM members can be expected to break the NDA in support of their bloc leaders. Overall these are some very intense accusations and show strong dissatisfaction with how the bloc leaders are handling our game. And again, I sympathize strongly with both of these authors.


i think we need to remember that just because someone's name is in a byline doesn't mean their opinion is of any worth

Quote:
Further, TMC parties are now pushing harder for greater wealth creation in smaller areas. Basically, the Goons started out with pushing for occupancy sov because Goons and Brave are the only two parties that can effectively lock down a region by force of sheer numbers with an occupancy sov mechanic. So along this thinking,

this thinking is fallacious


Why?
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#258 - 2014-10-16 18:33:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

So who is going to be building ships at below cost?


Compared to refunding/replacing them?
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#259 - 2014-10-16 18:33:14 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
(or PLEXes for Mittens RMT goals if Gevlon's accusations of RMT by bloc leaders is to be given credence).



He isn't to be given any credence. Any more than the old adage of a stopped clock being right twice a day.

If you want advice on how to get the most out of station trading, or min/max'ing mining missions, Gevlon is exactly the type of numbers nerd to go to for that sort of things.

When it comes to human interaction, complex organization, motivations and fun, not only is he the last person to listen to, but he has admitted to being a rather anti-social type with a very low opinion of other people and a strong bias against certain groups. He makes wild accusation with no real proof, other than numbers that he'll repeatedly twist until they say what his bias demands.



Meh, this comment is about Gevlon, which is not what the thread is addressing. It's Gevlon's idea, that self-interested Eve players benefit from turning Eve into a theme park, that is at issue here.

Yes, you're a Goon. We can assume you hate Gevlon. Irrelevant.



First off, I don't hate Gevlon.

Secondly, define "themepark". Because I haven't seen anything from alliance leadership that is anything along the lines of what is traditionally considered themepark content in MMO's.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#260 - 2014-10-16 18:36:23 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
(or PLEXes for Mittens RMT goals if Gevlon's accusations of RMT by bloc leaders is to be given credence).



He isn't to be given any credence. Any more than the old adage of a stopped clock being right twice a day.

If you want advice on how to get the most out of station trading, or min/max'ing mining missions, Gevlon is exactly the type of numbers nerd to go to for that sort of things.

When it comes to human interaction, complex organization, motivations and fun, not only is he the last person to listen to, but he has admitted to being a rather anti-social type with a very low opinion of other people and a strong bias against certain groups. He makes wild accusation with no real proof, other than numbers that he'll repeatedly twist until they say what his bias demands.



Meh, this comment is about Gevlon, which is not what the thread is addressing. It's Gevlon's idea, that self-interested Eve players benefit from turning Eve into a theme park, that is at issue here.

Yes, you're a Goon. We can assume you hate Gevlon. Irrelevant.



First off, I don't hate Gevlon.

Secondly, define "themepark". Because I haven't seen anything from alliance leadership that is anything along the lines of what is traditionally considered themepark content in MMO's.


Did you read Gevlon's article that this thread started off being about? There you'll get the context that will explain my use of the word. The blog posts is linked in one of my posts on the first page of the thread.